www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Fuels & Lubricants

Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

View Poll Results: Which AMSOIL?
Premium API CJ-4 Diesel Oil (DEO) 100 28.49%
European Car Formula Motor Oil (AFL) 251 71.51%
Voters: 351. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 3rd, 2006, 16:07   #46
BKmetz
Administrator
 
BKmetz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1997
Location: Illinois
Fuel Economy: 50 MPG
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmahaffey
I have just discovered that you are correct about AMSOil 5w-40 AFL not being certified by VW as 505.01. However, there is another side to the story. I understand that VW requires a lubricant manufacturer to pay to have their lubricants VW certified, AMSOil has not done this. AMSOil has engineered their AFL oil to meet or exceed all the requirements of the VW 505.01 specification. My 30 years of experience with AMSOil products is that they usually far exceed the specifications. I would be surprised if that is not the case here.
LOL, you have nothing to apologize for. Your only mistake was trying to help those who do not want any help and will tear someone down for trying.

Again, you have provided the perfect example of how the debate goes to the next level. This is exactly how the Amsoil witch-hunts work here. Without VW or API approval there is no way to actually know if any of Amsoil's claims are valid, so... we then go to the next round of personal attacks, FUD Tactics, etc.

Amsoil's reasons for which specification it decides to specify for are its own, it doesn't matter. The guys who sell and use it have no control over that but are vilified anyway. The Amsoil loyalists simple do as you do, and just keep using it, so there! Your 30 years of experience mean nothing as that is just a testimonial and anecdotal infomercial material at best. Someone will simply counter that they too have 30 years experience with some other brand of oil, and so it goes on.

There is never any end or resolution, the debate perpetuates into eternity.
__________________
Brian, 2015 Passat SE TDI 6MT, 2014 Passat SE TDI 6MT going back to VW
Wifey, 2014 Passat SE 2.5

If ANYONE receives a PM/email from a TDIClub member shilling anything and they are NOT a registered vendor, please forward the PM/emails to me. To report spam, trolling, or any problem post, click the report post icon. (The icon in the actual problem post, not the one in my sig. The idiots know who they are... )
BKmetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2006, 18:34   #47
AndyH
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: San Antonio, TX
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BKmetz
[/size]

Your post illustrates the ongoing conflict perfectly.

Regardless of what Amsoil states, it is not on the VW list of PD approved oils and has not submitted any oil to VW for PD certification. To the Amsoil critics this is deceit, lies, misinformation, evil, etc, and brings in the issues of whose warranty covers an engine failure etc. Anyone who promotes Amsoil in a PD engine is thus labeled liar under a guilt by association mentality and is attacked as fair game under the anti-Amsoil pack mentality. To the pro-Amsoil camp, it's a matter of, "So what, I'm using it anyway. So go pound sand."

We have two sides who have no interest in finding a middle ground. Some extremists will break every forum rule and risk being banned to prove their point. Thus the endless dead-end redundant debates on Amsoil and my attempt to reach a concensus on how to handle Amsoil threads.
Brian,

I don't think this is even all of the issue. Many of the threads that have deteriorated into the polar-opposite issue you've outlined didn't begin as attack threads, and most didn't begin as AMSOIL threads! They were hijacked and then took on a life of their own. I think that, if we're looking to identify which link of the chain broke, it's about hijack, not a specific oil company. So maybe the real quest should be adult-behavior rules?

One of the areas I've tried to work with here - from as completely a vendor-neutral position as possible - is warranty. The FUD minority shouted that if the oil used wasn't on the list, the warranty is automatically gone. This is one of the reasons for the recent looks at MagMoss and the aftermarket laws in the US - which offer significantly more options for the US consumer than our Euro bros/sisters have. Regardless of OEM requirements, oil companies are on the hook for their products and are the guys that write the check when the oil fails. So - from a strictly aftermarket view, the bottom line is still product performance - just as it is for pistons or camshafts. Contrary to the screams of the FUD minority - these discussions were warranty-centric, not oil-centric. Some of the happenings in these threads that lead me to believe that the membership still isn't clear on this - and is therefore are in a position to be controlled by a dealership and not in control of their consumer rights - are arguments like 'engine warranty will be void for the wrong oil the same way the warranty is void for biodiesel use' (one of these is covered by a VW position statement, the other is not).

Personal attacks are even happening in THIS thread! This is an area I'd like to see some 'teeth' in the moderation process.

I learned a GREAT deal from the last few month's threads (as I did from the 'discussions' of the late '90s) - and we as a group learned some things about the 505.01 spec that we didn't realize earlier in the year - so there has been some value! I just wish there wasn't so much garbage to wade thru to get the good info.

It would be far nicer if we could find a way to 'work together' in a Napoleon Hill 'mastermind' type of structure -- where two or more people come together in a spirit of harmony to achieve a common goal. People not in harmony need not apply.

SO -- in the interest of continuing to advance the community's 'corporate knowledge', I'd like to propose the use of a key-word in thread titles. Threads having 'mastermind' in the title are for the express purpose of solving an issue. Any of the rules violations mentioned in the first post of this thread will (not can) result in deleting the post from the thread - two deletions max - the third 'strike' is a temporary ban from the forum.

Thoughts?
Andy

Last edited by AndyH; July 3rd, 2006 at 18:42.
AndyH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2006, 19:57   #48
LurkerMike
Veteran Member
 
LurkerMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Atlanta Jawja
Fuel Economy: -Whitey: 38-40 mpg Hwy @ 80 mph / -Red 46 mpg Hwy @ 80 mph
Default

Personally speaking, I find internet fights very entertaining... maybe it's just me, but I really enjoy observing "heated" arguments on most any subject...

What is so wrong with "laissez-faire" moderation?
LurkerMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2006, 20:33   #49
BKmetz
Administrator
 
BKmetz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1997
Location: Illinois
Fuel Economy: 50 MPG
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LurkerMike
What is so wrong with "laissez-faire" moderation?
Where do I start?

I have been here since day one. In that time I have witnessed hundreds of "light" disagreements that escalated into outright hate and harassment that went outside the forums. Phone calls to employers to report Internet abuse, member's email being put on porn spam lists, viruses, etc. I have seen reasonable people and good friends become bitter enemies. Over what? Ego, arrogance, win-at-any-cost attitude, even threats to try to shut down the whole club. Because someone can not agree to disagree and move on, to always try to get the last word in. Then there are the PMs and emails from people trying to lobby me to ban this and that guy for whatever. Under my watch I will do everything I can to prevent chaos from dragging the club down, again...

We can disagree without things digressing into a blood sport. We are suppose to all be adults here, we could even try acting like it.
__________________
Brian, 2015 Passat SE TDI 6MT, 2014 Passat SE TDI 6MT going back to VW
Wifey, 2014 Passat SE 2.5

If ANYONE receives a PM/email from a TDIClub member shilling anything and they are NOT a registered vendor, please forward the PM/emails to me. To report spam, trolling, or any problem post, click the report post icon. (The icon in the actual problem post, not the one in my sig. The idiots know who they are... )
BKmetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2006, 20:47   #50
whitedog
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Default

Quote:
We are suppose to all be adults here, we could even try acting like it.
Odly, there are a few here that are not "legally" adults, yet they seem to not get into the cat fights. It's us older, stupider folks...
__________________
Knows how to refold a map.
whitedog is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2006, 21:52   #51
richh
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UP of MI>
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LurkerMike
I'm an Amsoil consumer because it has been proven to me to be consistently "one" of the best products available. I buy from a coworker so it is convenient.

I got on the Amsoil kick because of their ATF many years ago. I was using Mobil1 ATF and I wasn't happy with the clear almost undyed property and the fact that it was always "thin" on the dipstick when checking the fluid level hot. Heck, I couldn't even read the stick in the bright sun. Still, fully synthetic Mobil1 ATF was far better than conventional dino ATF's.

I tried the Amsoil blood red fully synthetic ATF that has much more apparent "body" to it on the stick and I was instantly hooked! I have never seen another ATF that even comes close.

Switching to Amsoil engine oils was a natural progression after that.

Now I think I will stick with Amsoil ATF in my Jetta trans and Elf 506.01 in the crankcase... at least until Amsoil comes out with a 506.01 "recommended" oil... I don't care about the "official certification" from Amsoil, if they recommend it for a given spec, I'm good.

I drink Coke, not Pepsi. I wear briefs, not boxers. I ride a hybrid bicycle, not a road bike. I eat chicken and turkey, NEVER beef (until EVERY cow is tested for mad cow). I drink hormone free rice and soy milk, NEVER dairy milk made from cows on the "juice". I think tobacco should be made illegal and medical marijuana legalized. I believe Afghanistan and Iraq were our destiny. But if you go to war, you kill the enemy without mercy, the way they fight us. Falluga should have been MOAB'ed off the map on Day 1 of the war followed by every town were "heavy" resistance was encountered. Short of these terms, I wouldn't have "gone in" if it were my decision to make.

The last time I checked it was a free country and I have the "right" to these opinions. But of all of them, my Amsoil preference seems to be the most controversial?
Well I just spent WAY to much time reading all this " oil wars" post and felt as though I had some how earn the right to put in my 2 cents worth!
LurkerMike, don't know ya but I like the way ya think
I have used the A oil for maybe 10 yr. now and just bought some of the new fangl EU oil from them, just changed the oil in sti last night, runs fine even though I put in 5W-40 insted of the recomed 5W-30, but I got it to cut down on the oil invantory.Every one wants you to use their oil! enough! Im putting the EU stuff in the subaru and the VW and the HD 15W/40 Diesel/marine stuff in the tractor (L4610 kubota) and the 7.3 PS ( ford )and thats it.
richh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4th, 2006, 18:42   #52
LurkerMike
Veteran Member
 
LurkerMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Atlanta Jawja
Fuel Economy: -Whitey: 38-40 mpg Hwy @ 80 mph / -Red 46 mpg Hwy @ 80 mph
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BKmetz
Where do I start?

I have been here since day one. In that time I have witnessed hundreds of "light" disagreements that escalated into outright hate and harassment that went outside the forums. Phone calls to employers to report Internet abuse, member's email being put on porn spam lists, viruses, etc. I have seen reasonable people and good friends become bitter enemies. Over what? Ego, arrogance, win-at-any-cost attitude, even threats to try to shut down the whole club. Because someone can not agree to disagree and move on, to always try to get the last word in. Then there are the PMs and emails from people trying to lobby me to ban this and that guy for whatever. Under my watch I will do everything I can to prevent chaos from dragging the club down, again...

We can disagree without things digressing into a blood sport. We are suppose to all be adults here, we could even try acting like it.
DAHum!!!

I would never have guessed that there were some VW TDI owners with serious mental issues! I mean I had a white-supremacist threaten to kill me once several years ago, but it wasn't like a surprise or anything out of character for and idiot like that. But VW TDI owners ready to rumble?

Even Andy Kaufman type humor (my favorite ) never crosses the line into those kinds of very personal attacks.

The internet is one big stage. Nothing more and nothing less. We are all bit part actors and comedians, preachers and pundits. No one on the internet is a "real" person... all internet entities like me and you are just tiny fractions of real people, parts of which may be exaggerated or even made up and other parts omitted entirely.

Getting so mad at someone that you take a real fight off the internet is about as dumb as pulling a real pistol in a movie theater and shooting the "bad guy". Or worse yet, going to a stage play and beating up an actor because you don't like the character he is playing...

Forum arguments for the sake of arguing are great fun to read for me! But I like to watch TV Wrestling and US Politics... yes, I know they are "rigged" but they put on a good show! Just like when the Romans threw the Christians to the lions, predictably you knew the lions would always win because the lions were relatively rare and hard to replace. Christians sentenced to death were an endless supply... simple math really, but it was about the SPECTACLE, not who won and who lost...

But yea, if even a few people that post here are so stupid as to become emotionally involved in an forum argument as to escalate it beyond some simple name calling and derogatory comments, well that kinda ruins all the fun for people like me...

Thanks for taking the time to 'splain it to me!
LurkerMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4th, 2006, 20:10   #53
bjmarler
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Tullahoma, TN
Fuel Economy: 51/45/41
Default

It's simply a "sign of the times" that we are living in. I mean for example, my dad was a certified GUN NUT. We had guns coming out of our ears. For my 6th and 7th birthday I got a gun for each one!!! We spent most every weekend target practicing, skeet shooting, hunting, etc...

Despite all that, I never even once thought of running home from school after getting picked on, etc... to get a gun and go shoot someone. My dad would slap me cross-eyed if I even pointed a gun at one of my brothers while it was completely broken down and was cleaning it. I didn't have to worry about what the police would do to me, I KNEW what my mom and dad would do to me! lol I guess having proper parental discipline at an early age teaches you respect for your fellow man. Something that is sadly lacking today.
__________________
2004 Jetta TDI PD White 5 spd; PhatBox; Diesel Power Digi PD Tuning Box & TPC - both set to low.
bjmarler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2006, 10:20   #54
BryanP
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gibsons BC
Talking Amsoil

I have used Amsoil for more then 10 years now. I both gas and diesel motors. I have a Suzuki DL-1000 that runs best on Amsoil, and when my new TDI needs it first oil change I will use Amsoil also.
I had a Dodge truck with a cummins in it, ran Amsoil for more then 120000 Km. it work great.
just my two$
__________________
Bryan P
2006 Jetta TDI with DGS
Platinum grey/ Anthracite leather
Premium Luxury Leather Package
BryanP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2006, 11:06   #55
BKmetz
Administrator
 
BKmetz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1997
Location: Illinois
Fuel Economy: 50 MPG
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanP
I have used Amsoil for more then 10 years now. I both gas and diesel motors. I have a Suzuki DL-1000 that runs best on Amsoil, and when my new TDI needs it first oil change I will use Amsoil also.
I had a Dodge truck with a cummins in it, ran Amsoil for more then 120000 Km. it work great.
just my two$
Informercial style testimonials have no place in this thread, or any oil thread for that matter. Posts of this type only attract detractors that will post that they have used other brands of oil longer with better results. Nothing can be quantified so nothing is ever resolved.
__________________
Brian, 2015 Passat SE TDI 6MT, 2014 Passat SE TDI 6MT going back to VW
Wifey, 2014 Passat SE 2.5

If ANYONE receives a PM/email from a TDIClub member shilling anything and they are NOT a registered vendor, please forward the PM/emails to me. To report spam, trolling, or any problem post, click the report post icon. (The icon in the actual problem post, not the one in my sig. The idiots know who they are... )
BKmetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2006, 12:02   #56
wmahaffey
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Trussville, Alabama
TDI(s): 2006 Jetta
Default

I certianly hope this does to touch off another AMSOil Debate. I post it as information for the TDI owners who use AMSOil. I am glad to have this information and hope they also will.

Please take this as additional information.

Have a wonderful day,

Bill

This is a reply to me from AMSOil Tech Services:

Thank you for contacting AMSOIL with your concerns.


In response to your inquiry, there is a slight difference in wording that has clouded this issue. AMSOIL AFL, 5W40is “formulated to surpass --- specifications” (as listed, which includes VW 505.01, the TDI specification). Asking VW to “certify” it would severely restrict our ability to improve the oil with newer technology. We prefer to maintain our independence and provide better, newer products.

Be assured that AMSOIL does stand behind the AFL’s use in VW TDI’s with our product warranty, so you are very well protected.

Thank you again for the opportunity to respond to your concerns. As always, please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance.

Sincerely,

Byron Selbrede
AMSOIL Technical Service
__________________
'06 Jetta TDI, DSG White Pkg 2 - Mine.
'06/'07 Jetta TDI, DSG Blue Special Edition - Peggy's
wmahaffey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2006, 12:13   #57
Frank M
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: NH
TDI(s): NB
Default runs best on Amsoil

Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanP
I have used Amsoil for more then 10 years now. I both gas and diesel motors. I have a Suzuki DL-1000 that runs best on Amsoil,
What does the Suzuki run like when you use a different oil?
Frank M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2006, 12:17   #58
BKmetz
Administrator
 
BKmetz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1997
Location: Illinois
Fuel Economy: 50 MPG
Default

And so goes the endless circular debate...

Amsoil has not submitted its oil for VW approval and is not on VW's list, so here we go, again....

What an official certification letter from VW looks like.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=139950


Some old debates that I had to intervene, edit, and lock to keep things civil.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=137104

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=141518
__________________
Brian, 2015 Passat SE TDI 6MT, 2014 Passat SE TDI 6MT going back to VW
Wifey, 2014 Passat SE 2.5

If ANYONE receives a PM/email from a TDIClub member shilling anything and they are NOT a registered vendor, please forward the PM/emails to me. To report spam, trolling, or any problem post, click the report post icon. (The icon in the actual problem post, not the one in my sig. The idiots know who they are... )
BKmetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2006, 12:30   #59
wmahaffey
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Trussville, Alabama
TDI(s): 2006 Jetta
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BKmetz
Amsoil has not submitted its oil for VW approval
Brian,

That is what the AMSOil reply stated. I had not seen that posted anywhere as a reply from AMSOil. I just wanted the communtiy to see what AMSOil said about the issue.

I do not understand why we cannot take the information given us an decide for ourselves what is best for us individually. I fear that a response like this from you tends to inflame the situation not help it.

Sorry if I have ruffled any feathers. That was not and never is my intention.

Have a wonderful day,

Bill
__________________
'06 Jetta TDI, DSG White Pkg 2 - Mine.
'06/'07 Jetta TDI, DSG Blue Special Edition - Peggy's
wmahaffey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 5th, 2006, 12:57   #60
BKmetz
Administrator
 
BKmetz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1997
Location: Illinois
Fuel Economy: 50 MPG
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmahaffey
I do not understand why we cannot take the information given us an decide for ourselves what is best for us individually. I fear that a response like this from you tends to inflame the situation not help it.
You have summed up the dilemma nicely. I was trying to illustrate that no matter how hard one tries to resolve an issue, good intentions can always be derailed. Amsoil debates have evolved into perpetual blood sport here. I remember a time when things were not like this.

I'm also trying to get people to use the search function to read old Amsoil threads and avoid starting new redundant threads. The old timers here can quickly call up hundreds of threads and thousands of posts and cherry pick what they want to prove whatever point they wish to make. A newbie will be quickly eaten alive without doing some research.
__________________
Brian, 2015 Passat SE TDI 6MT, 2014 Passat SE TDI 6MT going back to VW
Wifey, 2014 Passat SE 2.5

If ANYONE receives a PM/email from a TDIClub member shilling anything and they are NOT a registered vendor, please forward the PM/emails to me. To report spam, trolling, or any problem post, click the report post icon. (The icon in the actual problem post, not the one in my sig. The idiots know who they are... )
BKmetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
© 1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.21339 seconds with 11 queries
[Output: 145.06 Kb. compressed to 123.44 Kb. by saving 21.62 Kb. (14.90%)]