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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

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Old March 22nd, 2006, 21:41   #46
karlaudi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUNRG
FWIW - i had Redline MTL tested by my local CAT fluid analysis lab and it came in at 10.8 cSt (very close to the claimed 10.6). and, after my very crude freezer testing i feel confident that Redline MTL flows faster than OEM G52 in below freezing temps. so...
  • Redline MTL is thinner / flows better in very cold temps than G52, and
  • Redline MTL is thicker / theoretically protecting better in hot temps than G52
the only question is fuel economy... is G52 the ultimate fuel economy gear oil???? (due to its super-low viscosity at normal operating temps...)

i'm going to give Redline MTL a try and see what happens...

My Bentley Manual is not current beyond 2002, so G52 in not listed. But a review of the manual transmission chart indicates that whether G50 or G51 is used depends on the engine being used, not the transmission.

So, my quick guess of the situation is that each of these oils have different additives to handle various internal tolerances and heat generated in the transaxle by the anticipated TORQUE LOAD as determined by the engine fitted. This seems true to me because the viscosities are all the same. Another quick check of this theory would be to compare the oil used in say a current Audi S4 manual trans and the basic 2.0T A4 manual trans.

Again this a great exercise, but since there are no controlled conditions or “blueprinted” cars to use as a control group and without reproducible results do I see once again “a solution in search of a problem” ……………

Please note:
Volkswagen TSB 34 01-01 states that in certain models a humming sound maybe caused by a spider gear contacting a one-piece thrust washer and that replacing the existing gear oil with G52 171 A2 gear oil will eliminate this noise.

SUNRG as soon as can look up the “black death” in my archives, I will, as stated before, post.


Much respect,

karlaudi
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Last edited by karlaudi; March 22nd, 2006 at 21:43.
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Old March 23rd, 2006, 04:34   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlaudi

Please note:

Volkswagen TSB 34 01-01 states that in certain models a humming sound maybe caused by a spider gear contacting a one-piece thrust washer and that replacing the existing gear oil with G52 171 A2 gear oil will eliminate this noise.

karl, thanks for digging this stuff up - - good material

I think the "spider gear noise" issue is at the heart of the switch from G50 to G52.

Thanks.
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Old March 23rd, 2006, 05:11   #48
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SUNRG: Last year when I changed my clutch, I put in Redline MTL. It shifts fine in all temps. I did notice a slight drop in fuel mileage, but that could be due to the RC3 installed at the same time!
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Old March 23rd, 2006, 06:47   #49
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Again this a great exercise, but since there are no controlled conditions or “blueprinted” cars to use as a control group and without reproducible results do I see once again “a solution in search of a problem” ……………
LOL - this is sooo true. my shifting was fine and fuel economy very good but here i am tinkering...

i can't help myself though!!

honestly - i've decided i really like the 14.0 cSt Motul Gear 300 that's in now!!!
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Old March 23rd, 2006, 17:27   #50
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So.... at 140K, my '01 Golf is probably due for a tranny oil change. I have zero problems with the tranny - 80-90% highway and 5th. So which is it? G50, or some G52? Or should I leave it until 200K?

Ray
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Old March 23rd, 2006, 17:57   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUNRG
FWIW - i had Redline MTL tested by my local CAT fluid analysis lab and it came in at 10.8 cSt (very close to the claimed 10.6). and, after my very crude freezer testing i feel confident that Redline MTL flows faster than OEM G52 in below freezing temps. so...
  • Redline MTL is thinner / flows better in very cold temps than G52, and
  • Redline MTL is thicker / theoretically protecting better in hot temps than G52
the only question is fuel economy... is G52 the ultimate fuel economy gear oil???? (due to its super-low viscosity at normal operating temps...)

i'm going to give Redline MTL a try and see what happens...
That's what I wanted to hear. When I get to doing a transmission fluid change I'll switch to Redline MTL. I've been using it in my 240D and I like the way it shifts and I also like what I've read about it, namely the balanced friction coefficient that's supposed to optimize shifting. My Jetta shifts fine with the factory fluid, but when the transmission is cold and I'm rolling backward it takes some effort to get it out of reverse.

Last edited by Diesel Addict; March 23rd, 2006 at 17:59.
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Old March 23rd, 2006, 18:21   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUNRG
FWIW - i had Redline MTL tested by my local CAT fluid analysis lab and it came in at 10.8 cSt (very close to the claimed 10.6). and, after my very crude freezer testing i feel confident that Redline MTL flows faster than OEM G52 in below freezing temps. so...
  • Redline MTL is thinner / flows better in very cold temps than G52, and
  • Redline MTL is thicker / theoretically protecting better in hot temps than G52
the only question is fuel economy... is G52 the ultimate fuel economy gear oil???? (due to its super-low viscosity at normal operating temps...)

i'm going to give Redline MTL a try and see what happens...
is there anything about fuel or oil that you don't know
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Old March 23rd, 2006, 18:22   #53
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I've been using http://www.pennzoil.com/products/gea...cro_fluid.html in the tranny for quit some time now. No problems and others has given it praise.


API Gravity 27.3
Flash Point, COC, 385
Pour Point, °F -50
Viscosity
@ 40°C, cSt 41.6
@ 100°C, cSt 9.08
@ 100°F, SUS 209.4
@ 210°F, SUS 56.7
Viscosity Index 208

Last edited by 03_01_TDI; March 23rd, 2006 at 18:28.
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Old March 23rd, 2006, 21:48   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseldorf
Andy, do we know where the original G50 fits in?

thx.
DD,
All I know about G50 comes from earlier traffic here - just that it's a full synth 75W-90.

Andy
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Old March 24th, 2006, 03:33   #55
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.........

Last edited by LessIsMore; November 20th, 2007 at 19:26.
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Old March 24th, 2006, 05:17   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LessIsMore
G50 = excellent protection, shifting & durability.
G52 = rapid wear, inferior shifting.
Peter - i'm new to gear oil lab analysis, but i had my G52 lab analyzed after 43k+ miles and the CAT fluids lab manager said it looked fine and there was no need to drain it (other than my curiosity and interest in experimenting with different gear oils). Have you had G50 lab analyzed, or seen G50 / G52 lab analysis comparisons?

Because gear oils stay in sooooooo long it's hard to get good apples to apples comparisons. if 10 of us installed various gear oils at ~50k (2 people G52, 2 people G50, 2 people MTL, 2 people MTG, 2 people Motylgear - for example) and then we had them all lab analyzed at 100k by the same lab, that would give us reasonable head-to-head comparison data. bigger sample size would be better of course.

cheers!
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Old March 24th, 2006, 06:04   #57
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...........

Last edited by LessIsMore; November 20th, 2007 at 19:25.
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Old March 24th, 2006, 06:25   #58
Frank M
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LessIsMore
As for comparisons, take into account that some people might shift 20 times to drive a hundred miles. While on my country roads, I shift a hundred times to drive 20 miles..
there is minimal strain on the lube when shifting. the ring and pinion gears are always turning, mile after mile the same amount.
Quote:
If you drain a gear box and observe swirls of glitter in the oil, are you learning the same thing that an analysis will tell you or something better. IOW, does the analysis detect these large particles? .
there is an internal magnet on these trans-axles
Quote:
If one oil drains black and another drains amber, should this info be treated as anecdotal, and therefore inferior to oil analysis? .
who knows what the fill actually was...certainly not identical lubes and conditions.

Last edited by Frank M; March 24th, 2006 at 06:41.
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Old March 24th, 2006, 06:51   #59
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..........

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Old March 24th, 2006, 06:56   #60
Frank M
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LessIsMore
Do sycro rings wear? Copper goes to the oil.
unusual wear from syncro rings is caused by fast shifting with an occasional grind here and there.

if the driver pounds on the transmission it won't last anyway..
lube is the least of its problems. it biggest problem is behind the steering wheel...
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