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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

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Old December 30th, 2016, 15:14   #3406
tikal
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Fuel Economy: 37 MPG (~ 45% city)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James & Son View Post
Ok, I just assumed you put in a cheap cam in with all the additives you playing with.
That is a totally different situation.

From what i understand Frank has had very few what you would call failures if you use the proper oil. Yes frank does't like TDT and doesn't say much about any other J4 oil even though he recommends S9000 which is equal to a J4. Also recmmends the 505.01 5w-40 which of course you already know.

If you got a expensive cam in there please explain why you are playing with additives and plan on using 507.00 although that would be useful if you can get an good UOA with that oil. To do it properly you have to run the oil for 500 miles and take a slightly used VOA and then a UOA at 10,000 to see if you can run it out further. That way you know what wear metals and adds you have from the last oil change and can determine immediately what your wear rate is.

I put the cheapest Febi cam i could find on the internet in just to find out if all the science I have read would prevent failure.
My main objective is to continue lowering the overall wear metal rate. I started with the indicated (by Frank) break-in procedure back in Spring 2012. I used HDEO oils until putting the Pennzoil VW 507 oil (March 2016) with a HTHS viscosity, cP of 3.68 but with the lower viscosity at colder temperatures to reduce wear when engine is cold. The Archoil ceramic/Boron nano additives are an added insurance since I had not used a VW 507 oil before. Based on my own research, VW 507 oils have been used more widely in PD engines in Europe without issues.
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Old December 31st, 2016, 08:33   #3407
tikal
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Also here is the VOA for the Pennzoil Ultra Euro L oil used in this last UOA (source):

Boron: 70
Silicon: 3
Sodium: 1
Calcium: 1676
Magnesium: 8
Phosphorus: 634
Zinc: 723
SUS Viscosity @ 210F: 65.4
cSt Viscosity @ 100C: 11.71
Flashpoint: 460F
TBN: 5.6

So TBN decreased only around 16% in 11,400 miles which is pretty good for any oil but more so for a VW 507 oil. I suspect this is in part due to the Archoil additives.
Having said all of this I also realize that I am dealing only with three data points spread across 54,000 miles (on the cam) and four and half years of using the Passat. I need more UOAs in the future to get a better picture of the health of the cam and the engine in general.
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Old January 1st, 2017, 09:03   #3408
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Originally Posted by tikal View Post
Also here is the VOA for the Pennzoil Ultra Euro L oil used in this last UOA (source):
Boron: 70
Silicon: 3
Sodium: 1
Calcium: 1676
Magnesium: 8
Phosphorus: 634
Zinc: 723
SUS Viscosity @ 210F: 65.4
cSt Viscosity @ 100C: 11.71
Flashpoint: 460F
TBN: 5.6
So TBN decreased only around 16% in 11,400 miles which is pretty good for any oil but more so for a VW 507 oil. I suspect this is in part due to the Archoil additives.
Having said all of this I also realize that I am dealing only with three data points spread across 54,000 miles (on the cam) and four and half years of using the Passat. I need more UOAs in the future to get a better picture of the health of the cam and the engine in general.
The Archoil might be why the Flash dropped from 460 to 425 and yet your viscosity remained the same. All your oils seem to be ok but the additives aren't helping one bit and you know it. The only thing I can do is ignore what you put in the oil and I would say your best UOA so far is the 5w-40 Delvac.

But the 507 does have potential as the oil does not shear and has a high flash but the archoil screwed up the UOA. Now you have to start from scratch with that oil.
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Old January 5th, 2017, 16:44   #3409
tikal
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Originally Posted by James & Son View Post
The Archoil might be why the Flash dropped from 460 to 425 and yet your viscosity remained the same. All your oils seem to be ok but the additives aren't helping one bit and you know it. The only thing I can do is ignore what you put in the oil and I would say your best UOA so far is the 5w-40 Delvac.

But the 507 does have potential as the oil does not shear and has a high flash but the archoil screwed up the UOA. Now you have to start from scratch with that oil.
Frankly from these UOAs it is hard to say whether the MoS2 or the nano Boron Nitride/ceramic additives did or did not help. Interesting enough there are studies that shows Boron and WS2 nanoparticles working synergistically with ZDDP (see papers from Argonne National Labs and European institutions).


I agree that from an iron wear rate perspective the best UOA so far is the Delvac 5W-40 followed by the 507 oil.
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Old February 15th, 2017, 13:33   #3410
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Here's a DSG UOA at 60k km; first change interval. Out of a 2015 Golf TDI.

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Old March 30th, 2017, 08:26   #3411
h2oskier
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Default 2011 Jetta TDI Blackstone Analysis 20170329 106151 6828



6828 miles on oil
106,151 miles on engine
Iron 326 (Should be 44)
Copper 12 (Should be 8)
Intercooler freeze and hydrolock around 60k miles
All regular and scheduled maintenance completed and documented
I may opt for Andrew's CP3 kit (2microntech) and do an analysis after mechanical run-in. I really won't know anything unless I pull the HPFP and look at it.
That said, is there a suspect other than the HPFP given the car's history of the intercooler freezing 40k miles prior?

Last edited by h2oskier; March 30th, 2017 at 15:29.
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Old April 1st, 2017, 13:53   #3412
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^I will have used 2micron kits available soon. HPFP is still under warranty, so I can pull them before the buyback if needed.

Good luck!
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Old June 11th, 2017, 13:29   #3413
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my latest UOA with high Aluminum on BRM 2006.5 Jetta. Comments? http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/517/J36674_1_.pdf

Please note: 146K report was when I did my Cam change to Frank06.

Last edited by bobthefarmer; June 11th, 2017 at 14:05. Reason: added report image url
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Old July 13th, 2017, 16:02   #3414
DerekG
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Latest UOA for the Golf. Happy Camper

oil july 2017 pic by DerekG710, on Flickr
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Old August 11th, 2017, 17:15   #3415
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My report shows high sodium. I run WVO in my TDI and use salt as a de-watering step. Could that have gotten into the engine oil and could that harm my engine? I also use the Delo 5w-40 and my OCI is 3k - 4k. This report was done at 3.5K

Thanks

Last edited by WooK; August 11th, 2017 at 17:17. Reason: Adding more information.
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Old August 11th, 2017, 18:53   #3416
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Originally Posted by WooK View Post

My report shows high sodium. I run WVO in my TDI and use salt as a de-watering step. Could that have gotten into the engine oil and could that harm my engine? I also use the Delo 5w-40 and my OCI is 3k - 4k. This report was done at 3.5K

Thanks
Yes, the sodium is likely coming from your fuel. WVO isn't doing your injectors any favors either.
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Old August 12th, 2017, 18:47   #3417
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Originally Posted by DerekG View Post
Latest UOA for the Golf. Happy Camper

oil july 2017 pic by DerekG710, on Flickr
Simply a fantastic analysis result. Congrats.
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Old August 13th, 2017, 09:06   #3418
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Originally Posted by WooK View Post
My report shows high sodium. I run WVO in my TDI and use salt as a de-watering step. Could that have gotten into the engine oil and could that harm my engine? I also use the Delo 5w-40 and my OCI is 3k - 4k. This report was done at 3.5K
We've had so many years of experience with WVO in TDI engines, and those experiences are almost always bad. Short OCIs help, but they do not prevent the fuel from contaminating the engine oil -- and no matter how professionally the WVO is processed, it is still harmful when it mixes with engine oil. WVO is usually fine in indirect-injection engines, but not for our direct-injection engines.

This used-oil analysis is a warning, which should be taken seriously.
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Old August 14th, 2017, 14:44   #3419
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Just got back the first run on Mobil1 TDT 5w/40 in my '15 EA288 with stage 2 "eco" tune. Very impressed, almost eerily low numbers! Going to wait till after warranty to extend change intervals.

My opinion, It looks like your motor is not designed for a thick 40 weight oil like TDT. Check out how much it has sheared. If you want to run a CJ4 oil( not a low ash oil), I would run the 5w-30 viscosity( 12cst at 100 C) with the best Noak rating available to minimize ash loading.

What is your highway/city miles in the above UOA?
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Old August 14th, 2017, 15:33   #3420
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Originally Posted by James & Son View Post
My opinion, It looks like your motor is not designed for a thick 40 weight oil like TDT. Check out how much it has sheared. If you want to run a CJ4 oil( not a low ash oil), I would run the 5w-30 viscosity( 12cst at 100 C) with the best Noak rating available to minimize ash loading.
What is your highway/city miles in the above UOA?
The "eco" tune refers to the lack of DPF on the vehicle, thus no need for a low ash oil. The UOA in that post is 90% highway miles. Car now runs quite a bit more city, but not stop and go traffic. If the the oil had sheared too much, would wear have gone up as well?
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