www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Fuels & Lubricants

Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 30th, 2016, 14:14   #3406
tikal
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Southeast Texas
Fuel Economy: 37 MPG (~ 45% city)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by James & Son View Post
Ok, I just assumed you put in a cheap cam in with all the additives you playing with.
That is a totally different situation.

From what i understand Frank has had very few what you would call failures if you use the proper oil. Yes frank does't like TDT and doesn't say much about any other J4 oil even though he recommends S9000 which is equal to a J4. Also recmmends the 505.01 5w-40 which of course you already know.

If you got a expensive cam in there please explain why you are playing with additives and plan on using 507.00 although that would be useful if you can get an good UOA with that oil. To do it properly you have to run the oil for 500 miles and take a slightly used VOA and then a UOA at 10,000 to see if you can run it out further. That way you know what wear metals and adds you have from the last oil change and can determine immediately what your wear rate is.

I put the cheapest Febi cam i could find on the internet in just to find out if all the science I have read would prevent failure.
My main objective is to continue lowering the overall wear metal rate. I started with the indicated (by Frank) break-in procedure back in Spring 2012. I used HDEO oils until putting the Pennzoil VW 507 oil (March 2016) with a HTHS viscosity, cP of 3.68 but with the lower viscosity at colder temperatures to reduce wear when engine is cold. The Archoil ceramic/Boron nano additives are an added insurance since I had not used a VW 507 oil before. Based on my own research, VW 507 oils have been used more widely in PD engines in Europe without issues.
tikal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2016, 07:33   #3407
tikal
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Southeast Texas
Fuel Economy: 37 MPG (~ 45% city)
Default

Also here is the VOA for the Pennzoil Ultra Euro L oil used in this last UOA (source):

Boron: 70
Silicon: 3
Sodium: 1
Calcium: 1676
Magnesium: 8
Phosphorus: 634
Zinc: 723
SUS Viscosity @ 210F: 65.4
cSt Viscosity @ 100C: 11.71
Flashpoint: 460F
TBN: 5.6

So TBN decreased only around 16% in 11,400 miles which is pretty good for any oil but more so for a VW 507 oil. I suspect this is in part due to the Archoil additives.
Having said all of this I also realize that I am dealing only with three data points spread across 54,000 miles (on the cam) and four and half years of using the Passat. I need more UOAs in the future to get a better picture of the health of the cam and the engine in general.
tikal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2017, 08:03   #3408
James & Son
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Maryhill, Ontario, Canada
TDI(s): 2006 Jetta
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikal View Post
Also here is the VOA for the Pennzoil Ultra Euro L oil used in this last UOA (source):
Boron: 70
Silicon: 3
Sodium: 1
Calcium: 1676
Magnesium: 8
Phosphorus: 634
Zinc: 723
SUS Viscosity @ 210F: 65.4
cSt Viscosity @ 100C: 11.71
Flashpoint: 460F
TBN: 5.6
So TBN decreased only around 16% in 11,400 miles which is pretty good for any oil but more so for a VW 507 oil. I suspect this is in part due to the Archoil additives.
Having said all of this I also realize that I am dealing only with three data points spread across 54,000 miles (on the cam) and four and half years of using the Passat. I need more UOAs in the future to get a better picture of the health of the cam and the engine in general.
The Archoil might be why the Flash dropped from 460 to 425 and yet your viscosity remained the same. All your oils seem to be ok but the additives aren't helping one bit and you know it. The only thing I can do is ignore what you put in the oil and I would say your best UOA so far is the 5w-40 Delvac.

But the 507 does have potential as the oil does not shear and has a high flash but the archoil screwed up the UOA. Now you have to start from scratch with that oil.
James & Son is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 5th, 2017, 15:44   #3409
tikal
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Southeast Texas
Fuel Economy: 37 MPG (~ 45% city)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by James & Son View Post
The Archoil might be why the Flash dropped from 460 to 425 and yet your viscosity remained the same. All your oils seem to be ok but the additives aren't helping one bit and you know it. The only thing I can do is ignore what you put in the oil and I would say your best UOA so far is the 5w-40 Delvac.

But the 507 does have potential as the oil does not shear and has a high flash but the archoil screwed up the UOA. Now you have to start from scratch with that oil.
Frankly from these UOAs it is hard to say whether the MoS2 or the nano Boron Nitride/ceramic additives did or did not help. Interesting enough there are studies that shows Boron and WS2 nanoparticles working synergistically with ZDDP (see papers from Argonne National Labs and European institutions).


I agree that from an iron wear rate perspective the best UOA so far is the Delvac 5W-40 followed by the 507 oil.
tikal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 15th, 2017, 12:33   #3410
MrShip
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Canada
Fuel Economy: 6.2 L/100km
Default

Here's a DSG UOA at 60k km; first change interval. Out of a 2015 Golf TDI.

MrShip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 30th, 2017, 07:26   #3411
h2oskier
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hemphill, TX
Default 2011 Jetta TDI Blackstone Analysis 20170329 106151 6828



6828 miles on oil
106,151 miles on engine
Iron 326 (Should be 44)
Copper 12 (Should be 8)
Intercooler freeze and hydrolock around 60k miles
All regular and scheduled maintenance completed and documented
I may opt for Andrew's CP3 kit (2microntech) and do an analysis after mechanical run-in. I really won't know anything unless I pull the HPFP and look at it.
That said, is there a suspect other than the HPFP given the car's history of the intercooler freezing 40k miles prior?

Last edited by h2oskier; March 30th, 2017 at 14:29.
h2oskier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 1st, 2017, 12:53   #3412
mr_y82
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Western NC
Default

^I will have used 2micron kits available soon. HPFP is still under warranty, so I can pull them before the buyback if needed.

Good luck!
__________________
Malone Stage 2 Econo-Tune!;BuzzKen downpipe w/ cat!
2MicronTech Contain Flow and Pure flow Adapter FROSTHEATER
Appalachian Diesel Works, NC!(TRUSTED TDI MECHANICS)

Pre-tune: ~10k-70k mi = 40.5 mpgs; mpgs since tune_f_u_e_l_l_y_ ^
mr_y82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11th, 2017, 12:29   #3413
bobthefarmer
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Memphis
Default

my latest UOA with high Aluminum on BRM 2006.5 Jetta. Comments? http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/517/J36674_1_.pdf

Please note: 146K report was when I did my Cam change to Frank06.

Last edited by bobthefarmer; June 11th, 2017 at 13:05. Reason: added report image url
bobthefarmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2017, 15:02   #3414
DerekG
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Oklahoma
Fuel Economy: Towing:26-32.6 City:34-38 Hwy:45-54.2
Default

Latest UOA for the Golf. Happy Camper

oil july 2017 pic by DerekG710, on Flickr
__________________
DerekG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:42.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.19147 seconds with 12 queries
[Output: 94.15 Kb. compressed to 81.08 Kb. by saving 13.07 Kb. (13.89%)]