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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Alternative Diesel Fuels (Biodiesel, WVO, SVO, BTL, GTL etc)

Alternative Diesel Fuels (Biodiesel, WVO, SVO, BTL, GTL etc) Discussions about alternative fuels for use in our TDI's. This includes biodiesel WVO (Waste Vegetable Oil), SVO (Straight Vegetable Oil), BTL (Biomass to Liquid), GTL (Gas to Liquids) etc. Please note the Fuel Disclaimer.

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Old July 3rd, 2017, 11:02   #16
Lightflyer1
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In many places B5/B10 and less isn't required to be labeled. So you may have already used some and not known it.
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 23:37   #17
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Maybe this article could give us more info to enlighten our confusion/s about bio D: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-e...biodiesel4.htm
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Old July 4th, 2017, 05:14   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulJones View Post
Maybe this article could give us more info to enlighten our confusion/s about bio D: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-e...biodiesel4.htm
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there can be slight decrease in fuel economy and power. On average, there is about a 10 percent reduction in power. In other words, it takes about 1.1 gallons of biodiesel to equal 1 gallon of standard diesel.

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Old July 4th, 2017, 07:07   #19
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There are a number of things that should be taken into account when using biodiesel (which I don't) or vegetable oil (which I do). Shortened maintenance schedules is just one of them. If done properly those alternative fuels can be used successfully.
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Old July 8th, 2017, 22:59   #20
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Originally Posted by mrseadog View Post
There are a number of things that should be taken into account when using biodiesel (which I don't) or vegetable oil (which I do). Shortened maintenance schedules is just one of them. If done properly those alternative fuels can be used successfully.
How do you propose reducing the injection systems operating temperatures by 600F so you can safely do that?

The engines have long ago exceeded the limits of unstable "Gen 1" bio fuels, only Gen 2 Biofuels (GTL, FT etc) can comply with the extremely high temperatures of the fuel systems in modern cars.

Unless you are talking about a 1980's IDI engine, the fuel is failing from mile #1 its used.
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Old July 9th, 2017, 04:45   #21
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Those 80's cars do seem to be very tolerant of any type of fuel. But I have quite successfully run an '02 and an '06 TDI on vegetable oil with a dual tank system. In addition to the shortened oil change intervals, the car should be fully warmed up on diesel, the vegetable oil should be hot, and the oil should be thoroughly purged from the system before shutting down. It's aslo nice to have really clean oil.

Others have suggested additional things, including modified injectors and electrical or programing changes. Some won't even use WVO in slow traffic or city driving. I have not found these necessary.

I do believe the newest cars would be much more problematic to convert. But then, that was what they said about the '02 and the '06 too.

All that said, there are some who have had problems, and it is a pretty major change, so I hesitate to recommend it. Buyer beware.
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Old July 9th, 2017, 05:54   #22
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Originally Posted by Drivbiwire View Post
How do you propose reducing the injection systems operating temperatures by 600F so you can safely do that?
I don't propose to do anything as I see no reason to. Philngrayce in the post above said it quite well.

I have been doing this for nearly 10 years using a 2 tank system and have driven over 250,000 miles. The money saved on fuel easily covers the shortened maintenance schedules. It takes some effort to do it but as I stated in my original post if done properly, these alternative fuels can be used successfully.
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Old July 9th, 2017, 12:17   #23
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All of the anecdotal comments about successfully burning either WVO or bioDiesel are not referring to the CR engines. The current, Common Rail engines will not last when using BioD or VO. As DBW has commented, the temperature at the injector is far too high for any Gen 1 bio fuel to work for long. When the CR engine first came out, several people have attempted to use various levels of BioD. Anything above 20% was causing issues and triggering the CEL. While 20% and lower "appeared" to work, injectors inspected after use still shows damage. And oil changes are required far more frequently. With the CR engine, you have to stick with straight D2 or one of the few Gen 2 fuels that appear to the engine as D2. Propel HPR is one such fuel, but isn't widely available.
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Old July 9th, 2017, 13:59   #24
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I was responding to the statement about failing unless you are talking about 1980's IDI engines. That seems not to be accurate.

It probably is true that the newest engines won't work, and i said so. But that might be wrong too. I'm not aware of anyone trying it long term. Or maybe they just haven't figured out how yet.
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Old July 9th, 2017, 19:23   #25
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What he (Philngrayce) said. Note the car in my profile. I don't have a CR and therefore can not comment on that engine. FWIW, I don't consider my experience anecdotal.
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Old July 11th, 2017, 05:15   #26
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I agree that engines prior to the CR often had success with WVO/BoiD without issue. I only threw in the comments about the CR because the OP was talking about a CR engine, and the comments were moving between IDI, TDI and CR. Simply wanted to ensure everyone is on the same page.

In my state, D2 isn't required to be labeled with a BioD % if it is 5% or less, although every pump I remember still had a sticker that stated that it contained some BD. When I had my Mitsu Pickup, I ran B100, but of course that was an IDI. I'm waiting to see how soon Mazda or Chevrolet releases their diesel CX-5/Equinox, because I really want a diesel again and I doubt VW is going to bring them back.
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Old July 11th, 2017, 05:25   #27
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My brother bought one of the "new old" VW Jettas a month or two ago. The price is good, the warranty is extraordinary and the car runs great. You might want to consider one of them if the dealers still have them.
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Old July 11th, 2017, 09:58   #28
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If I was going to stick with a sedan, I would have kept my Passat. I liked it a lot. But I wanted to go back to a CUV/SUV for the higher seating position. Getting hard to get into and out of a sedan as I get older.

Also, I want some of the latest safety features, in particular Adaptive Cruise.
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Old July 21st, 2017, 23:40   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atc98002 View Post
If I was going to stick with a sedan, I would have kept my Passat. I liked it a lot. But I wanted to go back to a CUV/SUV for the higher seating position. Getting hard to get into and out of a sedan as I get older.
Also, I want some of the latest safety features, in particular Adaptive Cruise.
My daughter the airhead has a 2017 Passat Tsi. The base model. But it has radar-based collision avoidance, and it has already saved her bacon.

I don't know what the real story is, but I suspect very strongly she wasn't paying attention. (She says otherwise.) But whatever the case she was shocked when the car suddenly slammed on the brakes all by itself and STOPPED at a red light before she could hit the car in front of her. Got into the anti-locks and everything.

I don't know how important the adaptive cruise control thing is, but the anti-collision technology is the real deal. And of course if you have THAT there is no real excuse not to have adaptive cruise control. It's just software at that point. They only put it in the high-end trim levels because it's an excuse to charge more money.

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Old July 22nd, 2017, 03:25   #30
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Quote:
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My daughter the airhead has a 2017 Passat Tsi. The base model. But it has radar-based collision avoidance, and it has already saved her bacon.


I don't know what the real story is, but I suspect very strongly she wasn't paying attention. (She says otherwise.) But whatever the case she was shocked when the car suddenly slammed on the brakes all by itself and STOPPED at a red light before she could hit the car in front of her. Got into the anti-locks and everything.


I don't know how important the adaptive cruise control thing is, but the anti-collision technology is the real deal. And of course if you have THAT there is no real excuse not to have adaptive cruise control. It's just software at that point. They only put it in the high-end trim levels because it's an excuse to charge more money.

-mickey

Adaptive cruz is my desire along with collision control.

Collision control speaks for itself. Adaptive cruz would make my Tulsa freeway driving WONDERFUL

Been looking at the 2018 TSi 1.8L Golf base.

While I'm set for the *fix*, I can switch to BB if the Base has this.

Or I can even slug (approx) 2K more at the acquisition.

My BB is $25,626 and I have until Sept (?) 2018 to do the BB

With that in mind I'm sure I can even do the SE mid grade Golf and drive 3 years FREE and put a little cash off the table in the process.

Thank you VW
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