Red Line DCTF in my DSG

Here is my public service to the forum.

Last weekend, I put Red Line DCTF in my DSG. I thought I would post my impressions, since nobody else has posted their experience with it if they tried it. I wanted to try it because my DSG's shifting was clunky and notchy with OEM, especially the 2 to 1 downshift. The clunky feeling and noises seem somewhat abated with the new oil, but it could simply be a matter of putting in fresh fluid.

LiquiMoly is thinner than OEM by about 10%, and this stuff is thicker than OEM by about 10%. Given Red Line's reputation, probably heavily additized and extremely tough. It has a strange smell. Like a cross between Juicy Fruit and rubber tires. Driving feel seems different. Difficult to describe. Smoother and more quiet, but power transfer to the wheels seems more "tight?" Coasting in D seems to indicate some drag, but mileage hasn't appreciably dropped as far as I can tell.

I only have about 350 miles on it to date, so I can't say whether or not this stuff will destroy my DSG (doubtful). I'll update if it causes problems.

Specs for Pentosin FFL-2 (OEM?)
Kinematic Viscosity at 40°C 36.3 mm²/s
Viscosity Index 173
Dynamic Viscosity at -40°C 12100 mPa*s
Pour Point -51°C/-59.8°F
Flash Point 224°C/435.2°F

Specs for Liqui Moly 8100 Dual Clutch Fluid
Viscosity at 40 °C 33,0 mm²/s
Viscosity at 100 °C 6,85 mm²/s
Viscosity at -40 °C <20000 mPas
Viscosity index 174
Density at 15 °C 0,855 g/cm³
Flash point 200 °C
Pour point -48 °C

Specs for Red Line DCTF
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 8.1
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 40.7
Viscosity Index 177
Pour Point, °C <-45
Pour Point, °F <-50
Brookfield Viscosity @ -40°C, Poise 85

Keep us posted. Where does one purchase redline dsg fluid?

GreenLantern_TDI said:

Where does one purchase redline dsg fluid?

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https://www.ecstuning.com/ES2777409...VgnHh7qDO_-qseCAME1c40ZpHxRk74z6eUaAnGm8P8HAQ

Amazon, etc. also have it. $18 a qt.

So— there is no real reason to do this to save money, it's all about some presumptive increase in performance of the DSG?

In the spirit of GMARK pioneering the use of Delvac 1 in 505.01 applications,
I wanted to try something different and see what happens.

Price is more or less the same as OEM and higher than the 8100, but I believe that Red Line makes a very robust product and may perform very well indeed. I bought it from Jegs for the free shipping. Drain and fill is 4.5 liters (4.6 with new filter), which adds up to 4.75 quarts.

Transmission hasn't died yet. Will keep updates coming if there are any developments.

Yes, please keep us up to date. What would be nice is if the Red Line were robust enough to be capable of going way longer between changes.

Rico567 said:

Yes, please keep us up to date. What would be nice is if the Red Line were robust enough to be capable of going way longer between changes.

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How would ya ever know if its capable of longer OCI?

A simple UOA would show the integrity of the oil.

Redline's website mentions extended drains, but I am skeptical. I think it is laden with polar esters based on the weird smell. It will probably clean things up and cling to the gears, but suspend a lot of crud in the process.

The "drag" feeling has lessened. I noticed the same thing with the 0w40. First few hundred miles made the engine feel sluggish (detergent cycle?), then super smooth and more eager to rev.

About 1500 miles into the interval, and the DCTF continues to work fine. Seems the almost the same as OEM at this point, except for a less clunky 2-1 downshift.

I have been noticing the fluid smell when parking the car after a long drive, which freaked me out looking for leaks. No leaks around the filter housing and nothing the mechanic noticed when he did some other work last week. It doesn't really smell bad, but definitely stronger than OEM. ~3000 miles.

Found the msds to Redline dctf fluid. The weird thing was I found it separate from their website-it was dated June 2014. MSDS indicated 70-90 percent PAO and less than ten percent ester. I think most Dsg fluids are group 3-Motul labels theirs as technosynthese which suggested group three.

Funky smell is gone.

How is it driving? Any loss of gas mileage or response. I was thinking of putting this in my 2011 tdi golf, which has 208000 miles. Thought slightly thicker fluid might be beneficial with higher miles on transmission.

kevinbud said:

How is it driving? Any loss of gas mileage or response. I was thinking of putting this in my 2011 tdi golf, which has 208000 miles. Thought slightly thicker fluid might be beneficial with higher miles on transmission.

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No change in mileage after a few thousand miles. I thought I felt some drag in the beginning, but that went away with the smell. Better 2 to 1 downshifting when rolling up to a stop. Less clunking/slop and gear shifting seems more positive, in general.

How is the car driving a few years later?

I'm thinking of putting in some DCTF to see if it'll make my DSG creep/start from dead stop smoother. I haven't found many other reviews of Redline DCTF online.

Well I am going to give my 2 cents worth here about RedLine lube's, Now first I have never tried it in a car, I have an independent BMW Motorcycle shop, I am a BMW Master certified tech and have been working on BMW's for over 35 years. I have customers who have run Redline. Now what I can tell you is from the number of motorcycles I have seen personally ---I have rebuilt more gearboxes & rear drives that were running Redline then you could believe I would say about 40% of the ones I see run Redline. yes there are 60% that didnt have that in them but many of the gearboxes I rebuild are vintage bikes that you cannot run synthetic lubes in. But of the gearboxes & rear Drives that can be run with synthetic the % of redline using failures is more like 50%. --So 50% failures with Redline --The other 50% are running all the other gear lubes available--Just so you know I will never put Redline in a motorcycle I service--even when the customer brings it in and ask's me to use it -I Just Say NO

Which Redline products were the bikes using? and what do you think caused the need to rebuild at such a high rate?

I used DCTF in my own DSG and was happy with the slight smoothing out of the clutch operation. Even the torque limiter was a bit less harsh feeling (bigger injectors and a tune on a BRM apparently made it exceed the torque limiter if you really dip into it near 2000 RPM).

But, I sold the car last year. So, no long term update, but the owner that daily drives it did stop by before Christmas, still super happy with the car.

I've used other Red Line products in manual transmissions to help fix smaller, intermittent shifting issues with great success. I was never a fan of MT90 or MTL, but their lightweight/super light Shockproof oils are amazing and they've come out with a newer, lighter weight manual gearbox oil that directly correlates to various modern VW 5 and 6 speed gear oil part numbers. It's a fair bit thinner than even MTL. They call it MT-LV.

redline

Alex I am not sure which gear lube they were using as I am not the one who put it in, all I know is when I drained it from the bikes it was the color of Pepto Bismol. I am not a chemist and honestly don't get into alot of those details like some people here love to spout. All I know is what I have seen in the gearboxes & rear Drives I have personally rebuilt, I have seen bearings come apart, needle bearings fail, seals fail & also gearsets that show excessive wear. Now is the Redline the cause of all of this--I doubt it, I always say If Man Made it -Man can screw it up. I have rebuilt BMW motorcycle gearboxes with over 500K on them that dont show the wear that I have seen on gearboxes that have 25K on them, again all I can speak for is what I have seen with my own 2 eyes, and what I have seen tells me dont use Redline. Now I am not advertising for anyone and not telling anyone what they should use, I use in my shop right now Castrol & Amsoil gear lubes, depending on the bike's specs-On the vintage motorcycle that call for straight weight 40 I use a non synthetic I use Morris oil. I also use Motul & Agip--but again these are motorcycles not cars. The key is use what you feel comfortable with, I just avoid what I have personally seen cause many issues

rennsportmotorrad said:

Alex I am not sure which gear lube they were using as I am not the one who put it in, all I know is when I drained it from the bikes it was the color of Pepto Bismol. I am not a chemist and honestly don't get into alot of those details like some people here love to spout. All I know is what I have seen in the gearboxes & rear Drives I have personally rebuilt, I have seen bearings come apart, needle bearings fail, seals fail & also gearsets that show excessive wear. Now is the Redline the cause of all of this--I doubt it, I always say If Man Made it -Man can screw it up. I have rebuilt BMW motorcycle gearboxes with over 500K on them that dont show the wear that I have seen on gearboxes that have 25K on them, again all I can speak for is what I have seen with my own 2 eyes, and what I have seen tells me dont use Redline. Now I am not advertising for anyone and not telling anyone what they should use, I use in my shop right now Castrol & Amsoil gear lubes, depending on the bike's specs-On the vintage motorcycle that call for straight weight 40 I use a non synthetic I use Morris oil. I also use Motul & Agip--but again these are motorcycles not cars. The key is use what you feel comfortable with, I just avoid what I have personally seen cause many issues

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Bikes are a bit of a different story, especially with wet clutches.

In the automotive world, Red Line is known as one of the better protecting products out there, but certainly when specific chemistries for things like wet clutches are involved, one must be real careful with fluid selection.

And who knows when people do fluid changes themselves if they even get the correct amount in the stupid thing. I personally have had great improvements in shifts using some specific Red Line products and no concerning wear. But, you need to select the correct fluid for the application.

Redline

I have no doubt that alot of people have used it and had no issues, again all I can speak about is what I have seen first hand--I would agree about wet clutches --except the BMW Motorcycles I have seen the issues with are all dry clutch bikes-( BMW didnt use wet clutches until about 12 years ago lol) But as I said before use what you feel comfortable with, All I know is with what I have seen first hand you will never see me use Redline in anything I own, and as you say what people do to their own Car or Motorcycle who knows. Many people I have seen should not even put fuel in their car or bike --I had a customer bring his motorcycle in -he checked his oil and didnt see oil in the sight glass-( I had done an oil change the week before so the oil was very clean) He didnt think he had enough oil in it-so he started putting in oil--he put in 4 qts, (it only holds 4 qts) -needless to say he totally screwed up the engine-bent rods etc. again some people should not try to walk and chew gum at the same time