Increased oil consumption since Rotella T

Gentlefolk;

This is not a panic message, just an inquiry and request for info based on experience.

Bought my '02 NB used with 36K miles on the clock. Until the last oil change, I had been letting the dealer do it, around ev. 8K miles more or less, but not exceeding 10K miles. Dealer used the VW spec Castrol Syntec.

Consumption was around 1/4 liter between changes.

In May 06, I changed the oil and filter myself with Rotella Synth 5-40 (yeah, the full synth, fourpley checked), putting in 4.5 quarts of oil at 92,100 miles.

That was right at 6K miles ago, and I am down about a half-quart (liter) or, about twice what I had been down when the Castrol was in, but having gone fewer miles.

My driving had been a lot of interstate, running around 110 miles per day. But for the past few months, the car has not been driven much, owing as they say to employment dislocation.

So, my inquiry. The consensus here appears to be that Rotella T 5-40 synth is fine oil for the VE (non-PD) engine even tho it does not carry the VW badge of approval.

But, the slight increase in oil consumption has me curious. Any ideas come to mind? Thanks!

Oh, just looking from the top I am not seeing any obvious leaks, but I have not had the belly pan off since a GTG in the summer, and there was nothing amiss then.

Don

Going from one syn to another should not be a issue. You may notice more since you changed oil types, you are looking closer. Keep track, if I top off I use a measuring cup. Your consumption may have been on its way up.

When you change next time make sure you top off the first week. Sometimes we think we started exactly full after a change, and we were a 1/4 or 1/3 low.

I do not fill to the top, I always leave it just a bit under full. I think its prudent with our TDI's.

The API oils generally have a higher NOACK number (meaning more stuff passing thru the CCV system ) when compared to a VAG quality standard oil.

(Oh... geeshh... I really, really, r e a l l y, R E A L L Y hat this reponse but....)

I have been royally confused by the whole Castrol Syntech vs. Rotella debate. What I have picked up is that the Castrol Syntech 5-40 aint that hot, additive-wise, and in this area Rotella may be stronger. But, Rotella is NOT VAG certified, apparently by choice, not for lack of formulation.

But, DD (whose opinion I respect), I gather from your response that a given VAG-certified oil will be superior to a non-VAG certified oil, generally speaking.

So, should I be treking back to Castrol? Im not opposed.. I can get Castrol at the dealer for $8/liter, which while not cheap is not $30/liter either (tho Rotella is about $12/gal...)... and how much "protection" does the VE engine need? Im all for appropriate protection, but dont see the point of overkill, or is overkill just enough protection, for I have seen discussions both ways, and as you can see, I can get myself very, very confused.

I don't intend to start an oil war or make any claims good or bad about Rotella T but it's what I put in my replacement engine when I installed it. I have no idea how many miles were/are on this engine but probably higher than I want to know. Currently have almost exactly 4k miles on the oil change. It was slightly overfull (yeah I know) after the change and still is slightly over. So I have almost no oil consumption in 4k miles. I ran Havoline 5W-40 synthetic in previous car (not engine) with similar results. Original engine in this car was ruined due to accident not oil or TB incident. I chose to use these oils because they meet spec for my years and are readily available locally and inexpensively (relatively anyways). I put about 75k on the first car without issue or consumption so based on my experience both have preformed great for me. Your results may and will probably vary. Marc

In my MKIII with Rotella I did a quart about every 3-4,000 miles--switched to Liquimoly and it was about every 7,000--now with ELF it's every 9,000 miles. Oil type can make a big difference!
-BB

TDIfor said:

...So, should I be treking back to Castrol? Im not opposed.. I can get Castrol at the dealer for $8/liter, which while not cheap is not $30/liter either (tho Rotella is about $12/gal...)... and how much "protection" does the VE engine need? Im all for appropriate protection, but dont see the point of overkill, or is overkill just enough protection, for I have seen discussions both ways, and as you can see, I can get myself very, very confused...

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Plenty of tdiclubbers have used Rotella 5w40 with good results. It does meet the requirements of your MY02 NB and provides appropriate protection. If you are trying to get adequate protection at the best value, this is probably it. DD's point was that the higher NOACK value on the API oils can lead to consumption by evaporation. The problem is that if you are seeing the oil loss, this means it is probably ending up in your intake. So it could lead to eventual performance issues. The odd thing is that some cars seem to use this oil for years with no reported consumption issues.

If you want to go back to Castrol Syntec 5W40, you can find it at most Autozones for around $6/qt. They also normally carry Syntec 0W30 that has the VW 505.00 cert for the same price. The difference between these two oils is that 5W40 is a group III "synthetic" and 0W30 is a group IV. Another option for you would be Mobil 1 TDT. It is another group IV oil that is costs $6/qt and $22/gal. The qts have been spotted at Advanced Auto Parts and the gallons at Walmart. This oil does not have any VW cert but is a group IV and has worked great on the tdi ALH and previous engines.

Then DEO would be a great choice - one of the goals of CJ4 is reduced consumption - its a 5W40 and its 100% syn. Its also under 6 USD and available. AndyH just turned in a DEO UOA and it was very good for his 350k motor.

I got my timing belt done by Robby a couple weekends ago. He reported no leaks at any part of the engine he touched and said overall everything looked good. He was however concerned with the oil in the intercooler (i think thats where it was and wasn't supposed to be). He asked what oil I had been using and the previous 2 intervals were with Rotella. He said he thought so and that was a common occurance <clarification> from his experience </clarification> that the people's car's he has worked on have had similar issues using Rotella.

I believe he said he personally only uses Delvac. I'm not trying to get in an oil war either but that was his and my experience.

TDIfor said:

I gather from your response that a given VAG-certified oil will be superior to a non-VAG certified oil, generally speaking.

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Don:

• Euro diesel auto oils generally have lower NOACK values compared to the API truck oils. The API truck oils typically peg the NOACK meter at 13 - 15%. IIRC, this is due to the high levels of additization that permit truly extended drain intervals for OTR trucks.
• Amsoil has uber-low NOACK numbers...some of the lowest I've ever seen.
• Use an oil that works for you and is easily available at a fair price.
• There's no such thing as a perfect oil. That bottle of oil is filled with compromises to meet a given spec.
• In general, an oil can meet Euro standards or it can meet API truck standards - - it CANNOT meet both.

Nice!

BleachedBora said:

switched to Liquimoly and it was about every 7,000--now with ELF it's every 9,000 miles.

Oil type can make a big difference!

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You doubting me Dorf?
"I find your lack of faith disturbing..."

TDIfor said:

So, my inquiry. The consensus here appears to be that Rotella T 5-40 synth is fine oil for the VE (non-PD) engine even tho it does not carry the VW badge of approval.

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You can expect a bit higher oil use after changing to a new oil. There is some of the old oil left in the engine, and the new oil will expend some of it's additive package early-on attacking and neutralizing the 'foreign substance'. The oil is dirtier at an early stage, and dirty oil gets past the rings easier.

You could do a filter change and top-up, that might refresh things enough, or you can plan an early change, or just monitor the add-oil until you hit your next normal oil change. Oil consumption should be back down to normal next fill.

505.00 back, the VW approval was conferred by testing oil in VW approved labs not run by an oil company - very close to the standard ACEA process. The eariler VWAG approvals, like all the ACEA compliance, is a self-certifying system. No trouble there.

Our 2003 and earlier cars only require 505.00 - an old spec from the early '80s. The US diesel oils have continued to evolve - four or five spec updates? - and these CI-4/CI-4+/CJ-4 oils are far superior to anything that carries only 505.00. You're running a good oil that can give you a double drain interval.

Enjoy the cost effective oil!

AndyH said:

... You're running a good oil that can give you a double drain interval...

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20,000 mi on Rotella, Andy? Has anyone actually ever done this? Remember that Don is no longer doing heavy highway miles.

tditom said:

20,000 mi on Rotella, Andy? Has anyone actually ever done this? Remember that Don is no longer doing heavy highway miles.

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Yup. Same capability as the other CI-4+ oils.
Still - time or mileage, whichever comes first, and oil analysis after the 1 year or 10,000 mile point...

This oil has to pass the same tests as D1 and the others.

AndyH said:

You're running a good oil that can give you a double drain interval.

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He didn't say that everyone will be better served by running it 20,000 miles...

I've run Rotella 5W-40 up to 15,000 miles on one occasion, and the Used Oil Analysis showed that it's still good to go - except that some of the people here thought the soot number was a bit high...

I would wait 'till the 2nd oil change on any new oil before jumping to any conclusions...

Yuri.

PS: I didn't have any oil use concerns during the 178300 miles I was running it...

Good point, yuri. In your case you do a bunch of highway miles, IIRC. I doubt anyone doing alot of non-hwy miles should go much past 10K oci with Rotella or any other oil, unless UOA indicates its safe.

AndyH said:

The US diesel oils have continued to evolve - four or five spec updates? - and these CI-4/CI-4+/CJ-4 oils are far superior to anything that carries only 505.00.

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Evolve to what - dealing with an egr? Didn't light duty diesel's have EGR's back when 505.00 came out? Here is a thread where a lowly 505.00 performed quite well. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=160599&highlight=0w30

....LOL....here we go again !

mparker326 said:

Evolve to what - dealing with an egr? Didn't light duty diesel's have EGR's back when 505.00 came out? Here is a thread where a lowly 505.00 performed quite well.

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dieseldorf said:

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I couldn't resist. It has been too long since we have had a VW spec vs API debate.

..lol...

Thanks, all!

IIRC, the specified oil is 5-40, right? Would a 0-30 be too light for it? I can see that working for cold weather, but what about when things heat up?

Or, is this what people do - run lighter in the winter and heavier in the summer?

Don, as long as it covers 505.00, you really don't have to worry about the weight...it's just not as serious an issue as you might think.

FWIW, the gold/green Castrol 0W30 (505.00 certified) is a thick 0W30. ELF offers a thick 0W30 (FULL TECH, VAG certified), too.

Enjoy!

tditom said:

Good point, yuri. In your case you do a bunch of highway miles, IIRC. I doubt anyone doing alot of non-hwy miles should go much past 10K oci with Rotella or any other oil, unless UOA indicates its safe.

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Time or mileage, whichever comes first. Use the UOA, Luke.

AndyH said:

You can expect a bit higher oil use after changing to a new oil. There is some of the old oil left in the engine, and the new oil will expend some of it's additive package early-on attacking and neutralizing the 'foreign substance'. The oil is dirtier at an early stage, and dirty oil gets past the rings easier.

You could do a filter change and top-up, that might refresh things enough, or you can plan an early change, or just monitor the add-oil until you hit your next normal oil change. Oil consumption should be back down to normal next fill.

505.00 back, the VW approval was conferred by testing oil in VW approved labs not run by an oil company - very close to the standard ACEA process. The eariler VWAG approvals, like all the ACEA compliance, is a self-certifying system. No trouble there.

Our 2003 and earlier cars only require 505.00 - an old spec from the early '80s. The US diesel oils have continued to evolve - four or five spec updates? - and these CI-4/CI-4+/CJ-4 oils are far superior to anything that carries only 505.00. You're running a good oil that can give you a double drain interval.

Enjoy the cost effective oil!

Click to expand...

x2
Many people on BITOG have lost oil the first OCI and then magically stopped.

I've had an 02 with ~97k since ~55k. PO had run Rotella Syn for at least a few intervals before my purchase and I ran about 3. I am on second interval with Mobil1 0-40. On this interval my consumption seems to be about half of what it was on Rotella. Though I haven't had my super anal scientific hat on, previous consumption was about a qrt/3k which was more than I expected/wanted, now about a qrt/6k.
I'm toying with the idea of switching to a -30 weight synthetic commonly available in the US. Any consensus <famous last words) on the most available/best whatever -30 syn?......now ducking.

I have been using the Rotella T for 152k. My TDI has 197k on and doesn't need any top-offs between changes (I change anywhere between 7.5k and 10k).

SoCalC said:

...most available/best whatever -30 syn?......

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Castrol Syntec 0W30

Well, so far I've had the opposite experience with Rotella. I switched from Mobil 1 5W-40 to Rotella T Synth for the first time recently. Previous oil consumption with M1 was a consistent 6,500 mi./qt. (1Z engine). With no changes in driving conditions or engine (i.e., no leaks), I'm now getting a projected 10,000 mi./qt. Go figure.