Help! How to remove the lower control arm?

You think it would be simple...
The front bushing is held in with an 18mm bolt right behind the automatic transmission pan. I had to use an open ended wrench to loosen it, and then when I try to pull the bolt out, i pull it into the ATF pan, and I'm like... uh... I'm -not- going to change my ATF just to replace this bushing.

Also, the rear bushing's bolt has a nut on the other end, so now that its loose its just spinning. I can't figure out how to get a wrench in there (its very tight) to hold the nut while I remove the bolt. Any hints?

I lowered the sub frame and was able to get that bolt out.

This is not ment to hinder you
The nut is a riv type of nut inside the subframe, so take care as to not knock it free. Oldpoopie has a fix if it should come loose but it involves some serious welding work.

I did some pretty hard hammering to get the bolt back in with not damage to pan or the bolt.
So I won't worry. Now I have some nice new A-Arm busings
Good luck

Thanks Alan. I saw Oldpoopie's thread. I dreaded having to do that.
I replaced the rear bushing with the R32 bushing...
I said something about how tight it was in #tdiclubchat that I won't repeat here... but now that I've bolted the bushings in I can't move the sway bar to mate it to the ball joint. I'm going to have to unbolt the inner CV joint from the transmission to maneuver it in...

I ended up unbolting the dogbone mount from the engine and jacking the engine up to lift that out of the way of the bolt on the control arm.

I might as well add a few more notes...
I found it necessary to take a propane torch to the front control arm bushing in order to soften up one side so I could push it through.
Driver's side was very stiff. I ended up disconnecting the CV joint so that I could pull the wheel hub out to get the ball joint into the control arm. PITA.

The passenger side job went much faster now that I knew what I was doing. It only took me 4 hours instead of 8. This time I smartened up and covered everything in silicone spray (except the brakes). I used a rubber mallet to push the control arm further in than it would actually rest, then connected it to the ball joint loosely. Then maneuvering it with a hammer and oher tools I lined the holes up to the subframe and installed them. Apparently the silicone lube that I sprayed on the subframe actually let the bloody thing move so I could align it.

After about 5 years and 90,000 miles the rear control arm bushing was starting to crack a bit but could have went a while longer. The front control arm bushing was fine, and changing i was pretty much unnecessary, but I did since I was in there anyways. It was still very stiff and didn't show any signs of aging. The sway bar bushings though were pretty much toast.

when I did mine I took the easy route, I took the A-Arms and bushing to the local machine shop and for about 60.00 bucks they installed the bushings.
I got the TT solid rear bushings, the front ones were also in pretty good shape.
For me the toughest part of the job was reinstalling (and taking part) the strut into the knuckle, but im getting better at it.

for future reference, if you want to get that blasted bolt out that's obscured by the auto transmission pan, remove the dogbone mount and then pull your factory jack out of the trunk. Use the factory jack to tilt the engine forward and the bolt will come right out.

Mikey

Time to revive an old thread!

I'm trying to remove the driver's side LCA on a 2000 Jetta with an automagic. Of course, the transmission pan is blocking access to the front bolt. So far I've removed the two 13 mm nuts from the dog bone mount, and I've tried to "rotate" the engine with little success. I used my floor jack and a 2 x 4 under the metal shield for the ATF pan and was able to move the engine up a bit. But after a while, the car was lifting off the jack stands. I wasn't fond of that so I lowered it back down. I tried a block of 2 x 4 at the back of the oil pan so the 2" part was up against the back of the pan. That didn't work well either. So how exactly can I move the engine enough to get the bolt out? Should I be putting a block of wood under the oil pan or something?

When I had it jacked on the transmission pan shield, I still had about 1" of bolt left to come out. I was at least able to get the bolt loosened, so now it's a matter of removing it and then being able to insert the new bolt. If it comes down to it, I'll just drain the ATF and do a fluid change, but since I only did that about 11000 miles ago, I'd rather not. Thanks for any help!

mikeyworks said:

for future reference, if you want to get that blasted bolt out that's obscured by the auto transmission pan, remove the dogbone mount and then pull your factory jack out of the trunk. Use the factory jack to tilt the engine forward and the bolt will come right out.

Mikey

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Can anyone verify that this is the correct approach to removing this bolt?

I sawed the old one out so that I could get on with doing some other work, but of course installing the new bolt will require extra effort (which I'm hoping the dogbone mount removal tip is valid).

Here is how the front end shop told me Friday when they wanted $600+ to change both of them. I think they were trying to scare me but I like a challenge. Remove the dog bone mount. Then remove the battery and all associated hardware. Under the battery are 3/4bolts that hold the trans mount to the cradle. Don't remove the long trans mount bolts as they are TTY bolts. Remove the bolts that hold the cradle to the frame (they are under the wire loom enclosure) and then take a floor jack and ease up the trans to clear the bolt. My son and I did both sides and tie rod ends in 3 hours start to finish. Going to get it aligned tomorrow.

joe, thanks. I wasn't seeing how removing only the dogbone was going to work. I figured that it was going to require messing with the upper transmission mount, but was hoping that this wasn't the case (it's been a long-haul in doing all this suspension job- stupid sway bar bushings have really kicked my behind).

Sigh, the dogbone bolts are single-use (and I don't have any replacements).

We reused mine with some blue locktite. I have had to reuse some of my other bolts but used thread locker on them to keep them in place. I've been told that it works.

PS You should always use some locktite on an engine that rattles. I learned it the hard way 45 years ago on an old Ossa 250 motorcycle that I had done some work on and took out for a long day on the trails. Half of the bolts that I had taken off are in the creek and trails that we rode on. Also the guy that did my trans 3 years ago didn't use any on the starter bolts and my starter just about fell out. I hand tightened them to get home after taking my wife out for dinner and back to the shop the next morning. He r&r'd all of the bolts he touched and put some blue locktite on them and no problems for 3 years.

This IS an old thread. I never tried it by removing the dog bone mount, but that should work. He said to rotate the bottom of the motor and trans forward with the jack.

for future reference, if you want to get that blasted bolt out that's obscured by the auto transmission pan, remove the dogbone mount and then pull your factory jack out of the trunk. Use the factory jack to tilt the engine forward and the bolt will come right out.

Click to expand...

I've done it as described above by unbolting the trans mount from the body and jacking it up. If you do a transmission service at the same time the bolt comes out with the pan off.
I've never had a problem getting a wrench on the nut for the rear bushing like to OP did.

After securing the car on jack stands
Loosen the "car side" motor & trans mount bolts
Jack either side (removing "car side") mount bolts

This should allow sufficient access to remove the LCA front bolt.

I'm not a fan of rotating the engine, but to each their own.

Be careful when jacking the motor side, if lifting by the oil pan

Didn't rock the motor/trans. With the trans mount to cradle bolts removed you can lift up the trans side a good 2 to 4 inches. We only lifted it up enough to clear the bolt and as soon as it was replaced, we dropped it back down on the cradle and started bolting everything back up.

So, it goes like:

1) Remove the TWO bolts on the black metal piece that's on the end of the dogbone;
2) Remove the TWO bolts that attach the engine mount to the (upper) chassis.

Following joe's advice I'm attempting to remove the wire tray (after removing the battery, battery tray, air filter box etc.). Can anyone give me pointers on getting that tray out of the way? (what a rats' nest!)

No need to remove it. There are holes to put a socket through, just push the wires to the side.

joep1234 said:

Didn't rock the motor/trans. With the trans mount to cradle bolts removed you can lift up the trans side a good 2 to 4 inches. We only lifted it up enough to clear the bolt and as soon as it was replaced, we dropped it back down on the cradle and started bolting everything back up.

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joe, which bolts are the "cradle bolts?"

Metal Man said:

No need to remove it. There are holes to put a socket through, just push the wires to the side.

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Light bulb just went off in my head... I NOW recall this! THANK YOU!

But... if I undo these bolts will I be able to raise the engine/trans (does that provide enough room)?

We left the trans mount connected, just undid the trans mount to cradle. There are holes in the bottom of the wire loom case that let you run a socket through. They are the 3 or 4 bolts (mine only had 3, looked like one was left out at some point) that hold the trans mount unit to the car. There was more room to lift the trans side up but we only raised it up enough to get the bolt out, replace the lower control are and get the new bolt in and tightened up. Let it down and started buttoning everything back up. Passenger side was less than 30 minutes start to finish. Real easy with an impact wrench. Driver side was about 1 1/2 hours. Both tie rod ends were less than 15 minutes. Backed the nut that holds it in place 1 turn, impacted the nut on the bottom and one good wack with a small sledge on the side of the knuckle, the tie rod fell out. Then unthreaded the old end and screwed on the new one and locked it back down.

It looks like I can get to two of the chassis mount bolts, but the outer one is blocked by a chuck of wire harness that just really won't budge, and I'm fearful of stressing the 14 year-old wiring.

Well, I shoved the heck on the wiring bundle and managed to access that bolt: jacking things up really puts a strain on that wire tray! Thankfully it's a bit smaller (smaller socket required- less bulk).

Note: I had to use an extension on that LCA bushing bolt as a socket wrench wouldn't fit (not enough clearance to the trans pan- I didn't want to push jacking things up any more). It's tough to torque stuff like this with a long extension; AND, with only a 19mm socket! (why do folks sell sets of sockets without 18mm? I have 18mm in a 3/8" drive, but not in 1/2" [standard or impact).

I now only need to reinstall the bolts (using thread locker), but need the torque specs on those three bolts that attach the mount to the chassis.

the two 16mm headed bolts that screw into the car frame are 30ft-lb plus 90*, just like in the timing belt job.

the 13mm headed short bolt that connects the "ear" to the body is like 15ft-lb (or just snug)

if you are talking about the 18mm headed bolts that hold the two halves of the motor mount together, those are also just like in a timing belt job, at 74 ft-lb straight, no extra 90* turn.

be extra careful with the 18mm headed ones, as those are threading into aluminum and will strip if you try to pull the two halves toeghether against gravity.. be sure to fully support the weight of the engine/trans before you tighten those up if you loosened them (they should be replaced each time)

Got everything taken care of. Thanks a bunch, folks!

id love to see a pictures of these trans mount to cradle

Jack the engine where?

Remove dogbone - check.
Tilt engine forward - what? Please indicate where one would lift the engine in order to tilt it forward. Are there other bolts or connectors that must be removed for the engine to move in the frame?
This 3-hour job is up to about 6 hours now. And then I can do the right side.

mikeyworks said:

for future reference, if you want to get that blasted bolt out that's obscured by the auto transmission pan, remove the dogbone mount and then pull your factory jack out of the trunk. Use the factory jack to tilt the engine forward and the bolt will come right out.

Mikey

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Bolts under wire loom enclosure

Bentley makes no mention of these bolts under the wire loom enclosure. I have found one; it is a 13mm bolt that is 3.5 inches from the vertical part of the tray in which sits the loom. Where are these other bolts, and how many are there?
I assume the long bolts are the two exposed 18mm bolts to the right (passenger) of the loom enclosure.
And is there any way to access the parts into which these 13mm bolts go? If I will move the engine I wonder how I will line up the bolts with their receptacles.

Post op notes:
Front 18mm bolt is visible right in front of the wire loom tray. Middle 13mm is under the loom 3.5" aft. Second 18mm is accessible under the loom through a hole about 3" aft of the 13mm bolt. THOSE are the three bolts that must be removed to free up the transmission. No need to touch those bolts to the starboard.
It was easy (relatively) to move the engine in order to align the female threads. (Such a weird sensation to push around an engine w/ all the accoutrements attached) The engine was being supported (jack w/ wood under trans/trans shield) so that those poor bolts would not have to lift its weight. I was not planning to undo those three bolts and the two dogbone bolts, so I used Loctite Blue 242 and did not add that extra 90º after torquing that is to stretch a new TTY bolt.
Well, some jobs can get a bit excessive, but it's good productive labor in The Time of Pandemic.

ChuckMason said:

Remove dogbone - check.
Tilt engine forward - what? Please indicate where one would lift the engine in order to tilt it forward. Are there other bolts or connectors that must be removed for the engine to move in the frame?
This 3-hour job is up to about 6 hours now. And then I can do the right side.

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I'm pretty sure he meant push the bottom of the engine rearward,
in that way the engine does appear to be "tilted forward". Hope that makes sense.
I know on the standard tranny without the dogbone you can swing the engine (bottom end) probably a good couple inches to and fro.

STDOUBT said:

I'm pretty sure he meant push the bottom of the engine rearward,
in that way the engine does appear to be "tilted forward". Hope that makes sense.
I know on the standard tranny without the dogbone you can swing the engine (bottom end) probably a good couple inches to and fro.

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You've got it backwards, I think. Disconnect dogbone, engine is swinging. Jack the bottom of the engine/transmission mating area FORWARD towards the FRONT of the car. Increases distance between the tranny pan and the front lower control arm bolt. I just did an auto transmission control arm removal at the junkyard few days ago. Jacking/swinging it backwards would make it closer to the lca front bolt, no?

Wow, amazing to think of the engine having so few connections to the frame. Although I did watch a video of dogbone removal and the engine DID move about 1/2" as the last bolt was pulled out.
I'll see if I can take time out of my very busy schedule right now and give it a shot.

BTW mandrake, are you slinking away from Jack D. Ripper?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You've got it backwards, I think. Disconnect dogbone, engine is swinging. Jack the bottom of the engine/transmission mating area FORWARD towards the FRONT of the car. Increases distance between the tranny pan and the front lower control arm bolt. I just did an auto transmission control arm removal at the junkyard few days ago. Jacking/swinging it backwards would make it closer to the lca front bolt, no?

joep1234 said:

Didn't rock the motor/trans. With the trans mount to cradle bolts removed you can lift up the trans side a good 2 to 4 inches. We only lifted it up enough to clear the bolt and as soon as it was replaced, we dropped it back down on the cradle and started bolting everything back up.

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Do you happen to have the torque specs on the bolts you backed out from the transmission mount to the cradle?

I know this is and old post, but I'm hopeful!

God bless!