Black Haze Workshops downpipe? *Updated*

90_zeros

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Hi all, hoping someone has experience with Black Haze Workshops and can chime in on their quality? I ran across this downpipe while looking for a more reasonable alternative to the well known options.

https://blackhazeworkshop.com/en/pa...40_cr150_cr170_cbea_cjaa_ckra_dpf_delete.html

I have to say the quality looks good, and note that the price is in moose dollars, so in reality this kit works out to around $470 or so after shipping. I reached out and the shop confirms that they include midpipe, clamps, hardware, and egr blanking plates. Seems like a great deal.

Anyone have anything to add before I take the plunge?
 

turbobrick240

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That looks like a quality downpipe. I like how they use a tapered reducer instead of the typical turbulence inducing reducer. Profidiesel has one that's quite a bit cheaper.
 

90_zeros

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That looks like a quality downpipe. I like how they use a tapered reducer instead of the typical turbulence inducing reducer. Profidiesel has one that's quite a bit cheaper.
Oof wow that is cheaper. The one you recommend is under $300 shipped. That's nuts. Thanks for tip, but that being said, do you think this BHW do would be worth the extra $150? I, like you, really like the tapered reducer. Their in house collector looks exceptional too. Someone help me, I'm looking at downpipes and also looking At a Q5 TDI, seriously please help lol.
 

JordanLee

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I would personally stay away from the Profidiesel DP. I purchased a DP from TDIUpgrades on eBay out of GA and received some terrible customer service. At the time, he had the cheapest CJAA downpipes available and I bit the bullet. Unbeknownst to me, his kit doesn’t include the mid pipe connector to the stock muffler. There was literally like a 12-14’’ section missing. You couldn’t even bolt up the stock NOx cat back up because it was a flange to slip fit connection issue. When I complained I was met with a “Well that’s all that’s show in the pics, and its listed as a downpipe, not a full kit” I should’ve just went with the Buzzken at the time.

Upon further review, TDIUpgrades just uses Profidiesel parts and flips them for a massive profit stateside. Read up their vendor testimonials here on the forums. No knock against Profidiesel themselves but for this specific product, it doesn’t jive with North American CJAA muffler lengths.

That BHW DP looks badass because A) Its 3’’ and B) Made in Canada :)
 

90_zeros

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I would personally stay away from the Profidiesel DP. I purchased a DP from TDIUpgrades on eBay out of GA and received some terrible customer service. At the time, he had the cheapest CJAA downpipes available and I bit the bullet. Unbeknownst to me, his kit doesn’t include the mid pipe connector to the stock muffler. There was literally like a 12-14’’ section missing. You couldn’t even bolt up the stock NOx cat back up because it was a flange to slip fit connection issue. When I complained I was met with a “Well that’s all that’s show in the pics, and its listed as a downpipe, not a full kit” I should’ve just went with the Buzzken at the time.
great to know. RT and BK are out of the question for me. I know what these DPs cost to produce. I don't deny their quality but I won't pay those prices. A downpipe for my old STI was around $300. Rare model or not, 3" stainless costs the same everywhere. Anywayyy...

Upon further review, TDIUpgrades just uses Profidiesel parts and flips them for a massive profit stateside. Read up their vendor testimonials here on the forums. No knock against Profidiesel themselves but for this specific product, it doesn’t jive with North American CJAA muffler lengths.

That BHW DP looks badass because A) Its 3’’ and B) Made in Canada :)
What are the odds of it being made of melted down loonies? :p I'm JK. I agree it definitely looks like the best bang for the buck. No help talking me out of the Q5 btw lol
 

turbobrick240

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If a vendor sells a downpipe and advertises as just a downpipe, you shouldn't expect it to come with a midpipe. The only thing I don't like about the blackhaze downpipe is it doesn't appear to have an O2 sensor bung or mounting tabs.
 

90_zeros

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If a vendor sells a downpipe and advertises as just a downpipe, you shouldn't expect it to come with a midpipe. The only thing I don't like about the blackhaze downpipe is it doesn't appear to have an O2 sensor bung or mounting tabs.
good call. I did not notice until you mentioned it. Can have that put in for a few bucks I suppose. Still cheaper than RT :D . I will ask if they can do it
 

PRY4SNO

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I know what these DPs cost to produce. I don't deny their quality but I won't pay those prices. ... 3" stainless costs the same everywhere.

How much do they cost to produce? How much do you value a welder/fabricator/pipefitter's time, investment in equipment and experience?


What alloy of stainless? BK and RT use different alloys, for instance (different weld processes too). Where is the piping coming from -- are there tariffs involved importing from that country, do they have consistently high QA and QC standards? Is it off a quarantine/scrap pile... IE possibly contaminated? Does it come with MTRs and other applicable paperwork to ensure traceability?



A lot of variables go into piping fabrication. That's mainly just from the labour and materials procurement end of things.


Fitment is a whole other ball park. As is weld integrity.
 

PRY4SNO

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good call. I did not notice until you mentioned it. Can have that put in for a few bucks I suppose. Still cheaper than RT :D . I will ask if they can do it

Would also be interested to know if they'll add that in for a reasonable cost (if at all).

I also notice they don't show any exhaust hangars.

I'm in the market as well. My extended emissions warranty expires in an oil change and a half.
 
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JordanLee

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If a vendor sells a downpipe and advertises as just a downpipe, you shouldn't expect it to come with a midpipe. The only thing I don't like about the blackhaze downpipe is it doesn't appear to have an O2 sensor bung or mounting tabs.
Yes but when a vendor states the pipe mates to an OEM cat back and is 100% plug and play. That’s also a different story. The fact that it was impossible to even Jerry rig the set up to connect the two pipes together with a 14” gap to get home from the shop is inexcusable.
 

thatwhitejsw

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I would happily pay Rawtek's prices. Personally I'll be going with Buzzken when I do my delete after my emissions warranty is up. But I believe Rawtek is a great company and they stand behind their products. From what I've seen/read they have great customer service and they have high quality parts.
 

tjg

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I would happily pay Rawtek's prices. Personally I'll be going with Buzzken when I do my delete after my emissions warranty is up. But I believe Rawtek is a great company and they stand behind their products. From what I've seen/read they have great customer service and they have high quality parts.

I've bought from Rawtek twice. They're fantastic.
 

turbobrick240

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Can't say that I'm a huge fan of the Black Haze Workshop name. I suppose it's better than Kiddie Kancer Pipes unlimited or F the govt, dare them to shut us down.
 

90_zeros

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How much do they cost to produce? How much do you value a welder/fabricator/pipefitter's time, investment in equipment and experience?


What alloy of stainless? BK and RT use different alloys, for instance (different weld processes too). Where is the piping coming from -- are there tariffs involved importing from that country, do they have consistently high QA and QC standards? Is it off a quarantine/scrap pile... IE possibly contaminated? Does it come with MTRs and other applicable paperwork to ensure traceability?



A lot of variables go into piping fabrication. That's mainly just from the labour and materials procurement end of things.


Fitment is a whole other ball park. As is weld integrity.
Well I apologize for striking a nerve, suffice it to say we disagree about the spirit of this, and that's fine. Not looking for a fight, just not looking to pay $1k plus S/H for a pipe that is readily available for 1/3 the cost on nearly any other turbo platform. I recognize their quality, I do not recognize their value. Big difference, and I hope they understand I mean no offence. I am not their market.
 

90_zeros

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Would also be interested to know if they'll add that in for a reasonable cost (if at all).

I also notice they don't show any exhaust hangars.

I'm in the market as well. My extended emissions warranty expires in an oil change and a half.
I shall let you know. They are pretty responsive thus far

I would happily pay Rawtek's prices. Personally I'll be going with Buzzken when I do my delete after my emissions warranty is up. But I believe Rawtek is a great company and they stand behind their products. From what I've seen/read they have great customer service and they have high quality parts.
They are quality parts, no doubt. Expensive parts, too. It wouldn't surprise me if they were the best. I just can't pay what they want. No offence to them. BK too. DS will be my choice if this BHW doesn't work out though.

I've bought from Rawtek twice. They're fantastic.
I don't doubt it. I can't afford it. I have other mods I want to buy, namely a fuel pump. No sense wasting my mod budget on pipes. It's just my feelings on it.

Can't say that I'm a huge fan of the Black Haze Workshop name. I suppose it's better than Kiddie Kancer Pipes unlimited or F the govt, dare them to shut us down.
They can call it Seal Clubber's Unlimited if they make good parts for good prices
 

PRY4SNO

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Well I apologize for striking a nerve, suffice it to say we disagree about the spirit of this, and that's fine. Not looking for a fight, just not looking to pay $1k plus S/H for a pipe that is readily available for 1/3 the cost on nearly any other turbo platform. I recognize their quality, I do not recognize their value. Big difference, and I hope they understand I mean no offence. I am not their market.

Nothing to be sorry about at all. It's just that there's more that goes into building a business of building an exhaust or manifold for small market vehicles than is commonly appreciated.


Just because someone has it for cheap doesn't mean it's typically better. You see it in the small chassis Audi world all the time. Cheap eBay headers, even early 034 headers crack due to poor welds and design. But people buy them because of perceived value. Then they try to sell them or have to take a loss and start over again.



Maybe you're right, and I (as a piping professional) could source, design, build and market a solution at 33% of what the industry leaders are selling for and make a tidy profit. But I doubt it.


I actually emailed Black Haze via their website right after posting about the hangers and set up in general, have yet to hear back.


Will be interested to see if you get any response.
 

turbobrick240

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They can call it Seal Clubber's Unlimited if they make good parts for good prices
Lol. Now, Purple Haze Workshop is a name I could get behind. Excuse me while I kiss the sky.
 

90_zeros

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Nothing to be sorry about at all. It's just that there's more that goes into building a business of building an exhaust or manifold for small market vehicles than is commonly appreciated.
Will be interested to see if you get any response.
I think your first statement there perfectly summarizes my dilemma. They have built a niche company around doing one thing extremely well. I appreciate that, for sure. To build a business like that, around essentially one or two platforms with low sales numbers, you have to charge a good bit to keep the lights on. I want them to do what they do, and I want people to fund them. What i'm looking for is more like the old school summit racing x-pipe kits. I essentially need something close enough with all the right mandrel bends in it already so I can do the rest. Bear in mind I'm not going to be bolting something on and calling it a day. I'm going to be cutting, welding, trying different resonator setups, etc. You wouldn't buy a RT or BK exhaust if you knew what I had planned. It would make Hostel seem like the Teletubbies movie.
as to the response, yes I heard back. PFB
[No problem for the questions, feel free to ask as many you want.
We do not supply our downpipe with primary O2, the only function of this sensor is for the EGR system.
So if you are deleting, it won’t be used.
But if someone really wants one, we can add one for 30CAD
The reason why our kit doesn’t have an hanger, is because it will we too tight. Before making our own downpipe, we have installed many brand. And we often had to reweld them because they break in a weld. It’s important that the downpipe have room to move and absorb vibration. Adding an hanger would lead to too much stress in the downpipe.
We have designed our billet stainless steel flange to hold the weight of the exhaust with the turbo. Consider our kit 30% of the weight of the stock DPF assembly.
WE probably have one of the most difficult condition here for exhaust parts. And our kit is designed to resist corrosion as much as possible (for the price). Our first kit was made 4 years ago, and still run clean today.
Let me know if you have other questions.
Thank you]

Lol. Now, Purple Haze Workshop is a name I could get behind. Excuse me while I kiss the sky.
Maybe they can stuff a little something extra inside your downpipe before they ship it :D
 
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turbobrick240

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Maybe they can stuff a little something extra inside your downpipe before they ship it :D
I'm pretty sure that was the plot for a Trailer Park Boys episode. :D
They are a Canadian outfit, and they thought Black Haze Workshop was a good name- they must be putting something good in those pipes!
 

90_zeros

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I'm pretty sure that was the plot for a Trailer Park Boys episode. :D
They are a Canadian outfit, and they thought Black Haze Workshop was a good name- they must be putting something good in those pipes!
lol you Mainers don't know anything about that huh? :D

I definitely don't know about Elevation207 and others when I was staying in OOB for work. Definitely not.

lol, Turbobrick240 is 2 for 2.
He's still sharp because his Canadian care pack hasn't come in the mail yet ;)

You boys are a good time. We'll see what the verdict is on the DP. I'm convinced it will work fine for my purposes. Will order in the next few days. Will take another few weeks to get the money for the tune so no immediate install :mad: Will definitely keep posted for interested parties.
 

PRY4SNO

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Now that you've laid out your intentions, your position makes much more sense. Thank you for elaborating.



I got essentially the same response, with enough variation to know it's not a copy-paste reply. Nice to know they're genuine.


Now, about that billet flange...


I am also intrigued by the higher quality stainless vs the BK unit. And in Quebec they use an ungodly amount of salt on the roads so if it is truly holding up that well there, I'll be in good shape here in AB where we mainly use sand.


The two are basically the same price, and both are cheaper than the RT and DS units.


What doesn't exactly jive with me (yet) is the bit about the hangers. Of course you don't want it too rigid. You also don't want sag. Both can cause welds to crack. You'd think a bellows/flex-pipe would solve both movement as a moment anchor and thermal expansion, no?
 

90_zeros

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Now that you've laid out your intentions, your position makes much more sense. Thank you for elaborating.



I got essentially the same response, with enough variation to know it's not a copy-paste reply. Nice to know they're genuine.


Now, about that billet flange...


I am also intrigued by the higher quality stainless vs the BK unit. And in Quebec they use an ungodly amount of salt on the roads so if it is truly holding up that well there, I'll be in good shape here in AB where we mainly use sand.


The two are basically the same price, and both are cheaper than the RT and DS units.


What doesn't exactly jive with me (yet) is the bit about the hangers. Of course you don't want it too rigid. You also don't want sag. Both can cause welds to crack. You'd think a bellows/flex-pipe would solve both movement as a moment anchor and thermal expansion, no?
Glad to have made sense, and I'll admit I'm bad about getting the "order" of details off sometimes lol.

Regarding the hangers, I know exactly what you mean, it could go either way, but I think it makes sense given the orientation of the turbo and backward torque-over of the engine that's unavoidable in FWD/transverse platforms.

One could say that the most of the work is being done by the rearward hangers, purely from a leverage perspective, leaving the forward hangers for stability and redundancy.

You may or may not be aware of this, but there were some aftermarket DPs for other platforms that ripped exhaust hangers. (turbo mustangs looking at you). The aftermarket stainless is usually more rigid than the factory exhaust. The pipe itself is supposed to give a little, and so now many of those DPs just don't come with hangers. That was the "revision". The part itself is structural.

If it doesn't hold, a hanger and crack repair won't be too bad. I'd worry more with a big turbo, but I'd have a hanger/brace on the turbo itself by that point :D
 

PRY4SNO

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Good points.


Although a quality header shouldn't need a hanger/brace to support a turbo. Quality materials and workmanship are key. Look, for instance, at Iroz Motorsport headers in both transverse and longitudinal set ups. Not one single cracked manifold, and they're supporting up to, what, 1100 hp nowadays... running 8s in the 1/4 at full weight.
 

PRY4SNO

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So I've been a bit pensive to buy a DP from BHMS lately because my emails have gone silent beyond the initial reply. To top it all off, their website has been down for the last week or so.


Their initial reasoning against any hangers is that their billet collector is designed to support the weight and avoid the cracking found in designs with hangers. So I'm interested for sure, not to mention they use better S/S materials and welding procedures than some of the local competition.


But it'd be nice to have a conduit for communication (*hint, hint).


Edit:


Their website seems to be back up and running again.
 
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PRY4SNO

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@90_zeros


Did you (or anyone else) ever end up buying one of these from Black Haze?


I'm still very intrigued but there's next to no info on the interwebs, and I'm not on FB.
 

srlbotanical

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Bumping this again to see if anyone ended up ordering from BHW. I'm interested in this kit and would love to here from somone who's actually installed it.
 

zjltd5point2

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I got one about 4 months ago. Fit and finish is good, all welds look nice and everything went together fairly easily.

Only problem ended up being the missing O2 sensor bung. I went with a malone stage 2 delete which malone recommended to keep the 02 sensor for smoke level monitoring. This wasn't a problem for me to add as I have a tig welder. For most people I would recommend ordering it with the sensor already in even if you don't use it and just plug it.
 

srlbotanical

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I ended up emailing back and forth with BHWS and have been impressed with their customer service. They have a tuning package that they offer in cooperation with MRTuning. I spoke to the owner of MRT as well and had a good conversation.

I ordered the package from Black Haze with MRTuning and will share an update when I receive everything and get it installed.
 

PRY4SNO

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I ended up emailing back and forth with BHWS and have been impressed with their customer service. They have a tuning package that they offer in cooperation with MRTuning. I spoke to the owner of MRT as well and had a good conversation.

I ordered the package from Black Haze with MRTuning and will share an update when I receive everything and get it installed.
That's awesome. I too was (mostly) encouraged by the feedback from BHW. Will be interested to see your follow up. Please take some photos along the way during install if you can.
 
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