2004 Passat Wagon Purchase Consideration

I'm continuing to hunt for a Passat or Jetta Wagon and have come across a 2004 5 speed automatic w/ OD Passat Wagon with 131k for $4000. This is what has been replaced recently by the current owner who has had the car since 2010.
Tires
Boost control solenoid
Timing belt
Front outer CV boots (both)
Front axles (both)
Alternator clutch ASSM
Rear brakes & rotors

I am concerned about the known transmission and balance shaft issues with these models as the owner has not done either of those repairs. The owner states that there is a small oil leak and a check engine light on (possibly due to an air flow gauge?-the owner could not give me a code number). The vehicle has reportedly been maintained by a VW expert near Duluth, MN.
Ideally it would be nice to have the car inspected by a trusted member, but I do not know if time will allow. I would appreciate any feedback/input as I have not yet gone to look at the vehicle.

A mass air flow SENSOR fault is typically the first fault that comes up if a camshaft lobe has worn excessively. If the fault is accompanied by a loud "droning" exhaust noise through the intake (cold air ducting at upper radiator grill or air cleaner housing) the camshaft is likely worn.

At that price I would assume something is wrong.

greengeeker said:

At that price I would assume something is wrong.

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Assuming the worst, what would a rough estimate of the cost of a balance shaft delete and transmission rebuild/or replacement be on this. The craigslist ad is
http://lacrosse.craigslist.org/cto/4900640279.html

I just did a quote for transmission replacement, camshaft replacement, and balance shaft delete on a wagon similar to this. Came out to between $6-7K.

Mountain Valley Motors has given you correct numbers.

If you do the camshaft, balancer shaft delete, Malone Tune and convert it over to a manual transmission and also install fresh timing belt components; you will have $6000-$7000 in repairs costs. The transmission repair / replacement being your most costly update item.
That's also having / paying a guru to do all the work for you and buying good parts.
This does not include brakes, tires, Turbocharger, battery, relays, body reconditioning, suspension etc. This also does not include the purchase price of the car or going to get the car (transport costs).

A super clean ( Rust free and very nice body) 2005 Passat TDI Wagon with 120-160,000 miles needing the typical transmission replacement, new camshaft and balancer shaft delete kit is a $2000-$2500 car all day long. If you can find one !

Most Passat TDI owners (that are not TDI enthusiasts) just do not understand all the issues / quirks with this specific car. They have no clue that you (new owner) have to spend another $7500 to make the car reliable and nice. They believe what they read on kbb.com or they have not had a serious component failure (camshaft, transmission, broken / Toofed balancershaft ) These are the customers that ask $5000-8000 for their car.

If you buy one and when you are done; you will have a pretty nice car.
You will also have $10,000-11,000 invested into the car if you do everything correctly and replace all worn out components. Front suspension, steering, brakes etc.

If you want a VW Diesel; this is a heck of a car. Its 1/3 of the price of a new TDI and in my opinion MUCH more car. If you do not care about the Diesel aspect and you are not a VW TDI enthusiast; I would advise you to buy a low mile 2013 or 2014 Impala LTZ (old body) with a warranty.

A 10 year old Passat TDI is not a car you go to the bank and borrow money to buy. If you are a "car payment" buyer; I would tell you to buy the Impala LTZ or something else with low miles and a warranty in that $13,000 -15,000 range.

I hope this advice is helpful.

You're looking at an ~11 year old car that is fairly expensive to maintain. The $6-7k is for everything, but that transmission could crap out next week or go another 100k miles, and I suspect the transmission is a large part of the $6-7k.

A balance shaft delete by itself is ~$1800 ish. And that's with new motor mounts and all new timing belt/water pump kit, so you'll know you've had it done properly (LOTS of so-called VW-experts who don't know TDIs screw up the TB jobs, including dealerships).

If the cam needs replacing, that's $1500-$2000 depending on what options you choose to do it. That also requires new TB/waterpump kit when that's done, so you have ~$300 of redundancy in parts/supplies to the balance shaft delete job and also some labor overlap, so if you have to do both it's not a matter of just adding the two together. But you can have the cam easily inspected for wear to see if that really needs to be done.

$6-7k is very reasonable estimate for repair work if all three of those major items need to be done. But that's an "if", and it's also possible you could get by with <$2k if you just need to take care of the balance shaft problem if the transmission holds out and the camshaft isn't showing much wear. Again, you're looking at an 11 year old car so tough to say from sitting behind a keyboard.

Also, see if the seller has records for the CV axles that were replaced. If they had after-market parts installed, you'll likely need to replace them again. Reman OEMs from Raxles are ~$250 a side I think, if you don't have cores to trade-in, so that would be another ~$500 if both sides have to be redone, plus labor.

In the current fuel price market I would think a clean 1.8T Passat wagon with a manual transmission would be a better option. Far lower repair costs, you get a manual transmission, and it'll most likely deliver 25-30 MPG in mixed driving. Lower fuel cost per mile than the diesel, most likely.

I agree with all posts so far but wanted to add one more item : you'll have $10-12k invested in a car worth $4-5k and the latter value is what your insurance company will give you if you were to total the car.

Don't get me wrong, I love the b5 chassis and also think it is 3x the car you can buy new. I would have a hard time turning down a wagon with all issues addressed with a manual swap. I wouldn't be too happy about the mileage but something that I might be able to get over.

The current gas prices are misleading. The price will go back up where it was before this unnatural low......and then some.

Probably. But you can get a good 1.8T B5.5 for $5K or so. The one the OP is looking at could cost $13K after repairs. FE isn't that great on B5.5s. Price difference would buy a lot of gasoline.

Thanks for the feedback everyone, it is greatly appreciated. I'm going to stay patient and wait for something that has had the needed maintenance and probably a lot more miles to fit my within my budget. I am kicking myself for not buying an 03 5-speed Jetta wagon that had fairly low miles and good maintenance but I delayed and in a flash... It was gone

greengeeker said:

I agree with all posts so far but wanted to add one more item : you'll have $10-12k invested in a car worth $4-5k and the latter value is what your insurance company will give you if you were to total the car.

Don't get me wrong, I love the b5 chassis and also think it is 3x the car you can buy new. I would have a hard time turning down a wagon with all issues addressed with a manual swap. I wouldn't be too happy about the mileage but something that I might be able to get over.

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I "get" the above logic. But I also think diesel and gas will come closer in price before long. Maybe not almost even on average as the early 00's and earlier, but closer. And, though on paper the car may be "worth" only $x,xxx.xx (the blue book and NADA I looked at a while back seemed to say around low to high 7k, not sure what insurance book would say). But as you say, the B5 chassis has some nice advantages. My mechanic said he liked mine better than the new Jetta TDI he bought his Mom a year ago or so. And so to me, the true "worth" of the car is do you like it, and are you paying a reasonable amount for transportation you like. For me, I would rather spend more than book to get a good car I like, fixed up the way I want it, and maintain and drive it as long as possible, rather than by something newer I liked less. (I say this as someone who made that choice, so I could be justifying. But I don't think so )

The 1.8T vs. TDI issue is also a tempting option. But it is not easy, at least around where I live, to find really well maintained manuals 1.8T's that are equipped nicely. At least the TDI is pretty much the full meal deal on options. And saying that, the wood trim and "real" leather being nice if it is in good shape, but not necessary by any stretch. But the rest of the nice options are there. I would suspect a 1.8T, with the dual overhead cams, much higher revving powerband, and also sensitivity to good synthetic oil, might have some mechanical issues also to deal with. Even if you find a real nice one.

Just sayin'

That said, the price might be a little steep on this one if it is rusty. But if not, and if it is running decently for now, it might be worth it, or so it seems to me if you really like the car. But that is the key. Pics do not tell the tale. Gotta go see the car, and have someone qualified look at it, and the repair records, etc.

My attitude about buying an older VW now (10 years old or more) is that unless a killer local deal appears, it's worth going south to get one. If I were to look for a replacement for my Jetta wagon I'd look in Phoenix, Miami, Atlanta, Houston, etc. You may have paint or headliner wear because of the heat but that's easier to fix than rust. And the car will be far easier to work on.

I think the deal killer on the B5.5 TDI is the transmission. I hate automatics, and the one in the B5.5 is neither efficient nor durable. If you're up for a project another option is to get a V6 gasser and do a AHU or ALH swap. The gearing is decent, and the engine came in that car in Europe so the swap isn't that tough. A local guru here has done a couple. They're nice.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

My attitude about buying an older VW now (10 years old or more) is that unless a killer local deal appears, it's worth going south to get one. If I were to look for a replacement for my Jetta wagon I'd look in Phoenix, Miami, Atlanta, Houston, etc. You may have paint or headliner wear because of the heat but that's easier to fix than rust. And the car will be far easier to work on.

I think the deal killer on the B5.5 TDI is the transmission. I hate automatics, and the one in the B5.5 is neither efficient nor durable. If you're up for a project another option is to get a V6 gasser and do a AHU or ALH swap. The gearing is decent, and the engine came in that car in Europe so the swap isn't that tough. A local guru here has done a couple. They're nice.

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I agree on the auto. And on your thoughts on getting a deal on a project car. That is an interesting thought on the different approach to the project starting with a V6 gasser. I did not know that ALH/AHU option came in Europe. I am too far down the road on mine to consider that approach now, but very interesting. I don't know that much about the ALH or the AHU, other than the ALH seems to have quite a few fans.

ajaxstar said:

Thanks for the feedback everyone, it is greatly appreciated. I'm going to stay patient and wait for something that has had the needed maintenance and probably a lot more miles to fit my within my budget. I am kicking myself for not buying an 03 5-speed Jetta wagon that had fairly low miles and good maintenance but I delayed and in a flash... It was gone

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I am working on a 2005 Passat Wagon TDI right now with leatherette and sunroof etc. It has 190k on it and is in excellent condition cosmetically. We are swapping the automatic for a manual from Europe. While we have it torn down we are putting a new camshaft in and doing the balance shaft delete. It will have new mounts and axles as well. After we get it all done it will be somewhere about $9k.

mountain-valleymotors said:

I am working on a 2005 Passat Wagon TDI right now with leatherette and sunroof etc. It has 190k on it and is in excellent condition cosmetically. We are swapping the automatic for a manual from Europe. While we have it torn down we are putting a new camshaft in and doing the balance shaft delete. It will have new mounts and axles as well. After we get it all done it will be somewhere about $9k.

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Sounds very awesome, but out of my reach budget wise.

It will be a good value at 9k

That sounds like a good wagon! MountainValley. With all the work your doing, I as well think it is a good number.
I am actually wanting to get one of my wagons gone at some point, so I can help my daughter get a car-she does not like manual!

$10,000 away from a $5000 car.

You get what you pay for (sometimes).