Canadian VW Owners Post Objections Before Mar 4th?

Moderators, could we get a new sticky thread started headed:

Canadian VW Owners Posting Objections before March 4th deadline

I would like to post an objection and would like all who want to do this to discuss what they think should be included.

My biggest objection is we have no information posted by VW/their legal people as part of the offer that gives us a value for our buyback. This is something that was provided in the US settlement before it went to a legal agreement.

It would be nice to have this as a sticky so it doesn't get lost in the 2500+ posts on the Canadian emissions dieselgate sticky.

Don

Thanks NSTDI for starting this thread.

As you pointed out, and it was recently recently reminded to my attention, TDI owners in the USA were given a clear way to find out how much they were going to get in terms of buy back money, if they decided to go for this option. This is vaguely indicated in the Canadian settlement documents (particularly in Schedule E), but it is still not clear.

One point that I would be objecting is the actual compensation money for damages (Schedule D). They are lower than the amounts that people are getting down south, even without factoring in the currency exchange. I think they should be at least equal (dollar to dollar).

Finally, I also think that damage compensation for owners who decide to have their vehicles fixed should be paid upfront and not as the fixes become (if and when?) available and actually applied to the vehicles.

I am planning to post an objection on the basis that the present information found on the VW Canada site does not give me the necessary dollar value that my vehicle is worth in case of buyback. Without this information available, there is no ability to determine if the buyback is reasonable or to make a judgment to opt out.

I am not able to understand how we are expected to approve a settlement without more specific details. We are given a broad range but there are no assurances how and where we may fit in.

Accordingly, I want to file an objection like the others and hope we can help each other to get a reasonable and fair settlement.

geodug said:

I am not able to understand how we are expected to approve a settlement without more specific details. We are given a broad range but there are no assurances how and where we may fit in.

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My objection was essentially:

Ranges do me no good, as VW could easily give every single car in the model year the lowest number in the chart, except one, which gets the highest number - and the chart remains true.

Without a VIN specfic value and description of how that value was arrived, the settlement does not give enough information to make a legally informed decision.

Like other said, range is far too wide to be of any real value. We shouldn't have to pay to get the info (even if it's been floated out there by someone, in general the concept is pay to get the numbers.

The other thing is the trade in value, for those going that route, is artificially depressed because of the scandal. There should be an upward adjustment to account for that.

The settlement administrator should be able to set up a buyback calculator based on actual numbers that have not yet been disclosed. Owners would simply need their VIN number to log in and access the calculator which would be posted on the www.VWCanadaSettlement.ca site. The sensitive and confidential valuation data for all cars would remain confidential, but individual owners would be able to determine their own values. By having a login requirement, the administrator will be able to control what information is disclosed. Seems like a solution that just requires a little work by VW and the settlement administrator.

Quick link to the objection form :

https://www.vwcanadasettlement.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Objection_Form.pdf

Only 3 weeks left until March 4th.

Simple. Buying back. Look on kijiji and auto trader to get the what things are going for price. Then add the penalty

laminated said:

Simple. Buying back. Look on kijiji and auto trader to get the what things are going for price. Then add the penalty

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Sorry but this is not correct for many reasons
1. the black book value we are supposed to be getting is based on pre-sept 2015 values (before Dieselgate news broke) and before all the value lost due to normal age/mileage and due to dieselgate itself.
2. kijiji will give you the value that someone is asking which is typically very high vs actual sale prices
3. CBB value is wholesale price (price at an auction), not a retail price

And besides, would you sign an agreement with anyone that locks you in that says: I will buy your car/house/whatever and I will pay you a good price based on blah, blah, blah...just trust me. A "agreement" needs to specify the actual price, otherwise its not really an agreement.

Objections

1. The trade-in tax credit option is only for VW or Audi. There needs to be a mechanism whereby it can be applied to any car bought through any dealer.
Should VW wish to earn new business from us, then it should do that with incentives as opposed to be handed an advantage by The Court.
The Settlement should not favour VW over any other company.

2. Values should be simple to figure out before the opt out deadline, so that one can make an informed decision whether or not to stay in the Settlement Class.

3. VW should be compelled to come up with a fix for all three generations. many of us want to keep our car. My concern is that VW does not have enough of an incentive (punishment) to not come up with a fix.

Not part of an objection but, VW could offer several incentives for us to stay with them on a new purchase. Offer a warranty that matches Mazda's unlimited mileage, no charge scheduled maintenance for 3 years/unlimited mileage, 0% financing for 5 years. Combination of all three.

If I opt for the buy back as opposed to fix, and VW does not offer significant incentive to earn my business, they will not get the business. All people and businesses are allowed to make mistakes and make amends. The Court Settlement is not admitting to a mistake or making amends, they are being forced to. Generous incentives for us to buy again, is making an effort to earn future business.

Do we just believe the Canadian buyback calculator?

Unfortunately, I believe I'm a little late to this party, as I hadn't really had time to review all the documents properly in time for the Mar. 4th deadline. I will post my concerns nevertheless as I want to see the interest level in this issue. And maybe this has been addressed in a post before and if so I apologize for bringing it up again .. and please direct me to such a posting!
My issue now is with the buyback calculator on the website ...
https://cbbestimator.vwcanadasettlement.ca/VW_WebServices/vw/index
which I'm not sure when it exactly appeared, but I believe it must have been just a few days before the objection deadline, as I had kept checking the site on numerous occasions and not seen any updates.
For reference ...My car is a 2009 jetta wagon TDI highline model, with as far as I know all the options possible, that would be relevant.
So according to the Exhibit 5 document in table 2, the range of buyback payment would be in the range of $2,916 - $14,904. And according to all references, this document would be the letter of the law once ratified.
So I go to plugin my VIN and mileage. I'm at around 95000 right now, so definitely low on the mileage scale, so I was thinking I would be top of the range.
Turns out the value that it gave me was $13700.
So I started to wonder what was I missing that cause the seemingly $1200 difference in valuation!
Firstly I tried all possible permutations with my VIN and lower or higher mileage as well as all the provinces of registration. And nothing gave me any more than the $13700. So what gives?
So I called the claims adminstration and asked for more information ie perhaps a table explaining the exact calculation. To my dismay there is no such document.
So I went to the US sites to compare and quickly found this document ...
https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/att._1a_-_buyback_modification_table.pdf
... Which CLEARLY explains the valuations and compensation for all models affected!
I called one of the claims lawyers at Siskinds LLC and hate to say I was kind of given the runaround.
I was trying to explain my concern and was interrupted at every turn without listening to my complete explanation. The lawyer then proceeded to tell me my current black book value as of today and tell me that I should be happy I'm getting anything. I was certainly made to feel greedy for simply wanting to know the proper calculation to the buyback calculation, by telling me I should be happy I'm getting anything! In the end, she admitted there was no such table and that the calculation was done by some 'experts' that they had appointed, and the values could only be found out by using the 'buyback calculator' on the website. I was told the process would be too complicated to provide a table!
Then I was also told that I probably lost 1200$ in time by making this phone call!!! Of course, I forgot that I was talking to a lawyer ...and that's their cost of one phone call! ... but hey aren't you supposed to be representing our best interests here?
I appreciate that a lot of time and effort went into coming up with an agreement, but I'm pretty sure all the law firms involved are getting some pretty good compensation out of this.
Didn't VW also appoint some 'experts' to figure out how to make diesel emissions cleaner? Anyone know how that worked out?
So why are we not given the same courtesy here in Canada as in the US. It would seem like a very simple thing to do that would ease a lot of confusion and questions.
I'm not even saying that my valuation is wrong. But I sure as heck want to know how it's being arrived at. And also the unwillingness to reveal the exact data at every turn makes me very suspicious and should cause others to do as well.
Am I alone on this one, or does any other TDI owner get my point here?
Definitely agreed with BCPassat on the objections. I loved my Jetta ... still do, and will probably buy another Dub. But it definitely seems like the Canadian agreement has been written to apease VW a little too much.

This site: https://cbbestimator.vwcanadasettlement.ca/VW_WebServices/vw/result
... gave you $13,700 for a 2009?

FVWVWF said:

This site: https://cbbestimator.vwcanadasettlement.ca/VW_WebServices/vw/result
... gave you $13,700 for a 2009?

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And he's complaining!

2010 Volkswagen Golf Highline with 182,500km
3VWTL...XXXX
$13,512

I'm pretty happy with that after 7yrs and many smiles!

crashtested said:

2010 Volkswagen Golf Highline with 182,500km
$13,512

Click to expand...

Fawk!

2012 Jetta Highline with 120,000 kms
$12,500


I get that province plays a role...but even if so......I just dont get that calculator

Crashtested if you read my post, I clearly said I'm not even sure my valuation is wrong. So I'm not complaining about the result, but complaining about the process! Exactly for the reason why you both of you are as upset. And you should be!
The reasons for the calculation are NOT clearly laid out
Also ... I ended up buying a gas Jetta 2010 for my wife on Dec. 2015. And I spent about a month tracking down a second hand car for her and after a months process found several equals or lessers of my own vehicle going for 16'000-20'000. Even considered trading it in at the time
The lawyer explained it as 'wholesale cost'. I'm assuming that is the price that dealers would be buying trade ins at ... And then the average of that price.
I do think what I'm getting is good and decent value for the loss. But it should have been explained a lot better.
Hope that clarifies.
And yes the wildly varying results for different provinces definitely surprised me too!