NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

kjclow · May 3, 2012

2010TDIWagen said:
^ YES I reported the problem to the NHSTA. Tues Morning. They confirmed the complaint the following day with a email confirmation record deal. I would like confirmation on the re-design/updated fuel pump? Or are they just giving me the same pump? And if we keep it I'll make sure we use Power Service diesel additive on EVERY tank, and double the dosage for their "maximum protection" as they indicate on the bottle. That may be the solution. I used it every time I filled up in my F250 Diesel about 7 yrs ago. Great product.

Based on earlier comments, you might also want to switch filling stations. I think that dweisel speculated that some of the repeat failures could be due to using the fuel from the same source. Of course, they may all be getting the fuel from the same wholeseller.

dweisel · May 3, 2012

Three failures reported here this week. 2 from TX and one from FL. HEAT?

JSWTDI09 · May 3, 2012

dweisel said:
Three failures reported here this week. 2 from TX and one from FL. HEAT?

There also seem to be more failures in the summer than in the winter. Is it ambient temps or fuel temps? I would also be curious as to the level of the fuel in their tanks. Low fuel levels could mean higher fuel temps. I do not know how much of an effect this might have, but it would be interesting to know. If heat is the issue, why have there been no HPFP failures (that we know about) in Nevada. About 90% of Nevada's population live in or near Las Vegas, and it is definitely hot here. I wish we had an many answers as we do questions.

Have Fun!

Don

MPBsr · May 3, 2012

Some people here called me paraniod and chicken little.

But I still feel that these CR's are ticking time bombs and we'll see many more implosions of HPFP over the years.

"IF" one day VW gets it right, maybe I'll consider another TDI.

Otherwise I'm still driving my gasser and sleeping well at night.

For me, I do drive more and worry less now.

chudzikb · May 3, 2012

Report to government. Then post up in the MK 5 section, the "official failure" thread. I would trade it, but, that is me. Others think there is no problem. Sorry you and your wife got caught up with the "problem".

dweisel · May 3, 2012

JSWTDI09 said:
There also seem to be more failures in the summer than in the winter. Is it ambient temps or fuel temps? I would also be curious as to the level of the fuel in their tanks. Low fuel levels could mean higher fuel temps. I do not know how much of an effect this might have, but it would be interesting to know. If heat is the issue, why have there been no HPFP failures (that we know about) in Nevada. About 90% of Nevada's population live in or near Las Vegas, and it is definitely hot here. I wish we had an many answers as we do questions.

Have Fun!

Don

It could be a combination of things. Ambient temps,fuel system temps and low lubricity fuel. Higher fuel temps would lower lubricity. IIRC,fuel lubricity is tested at 60 degrees........or was it 70. Somewhere in that range???

2010TDIWagen · May 3, 2012

Thanks for the info guys. I did post on the official tracker thread with the specified format. VW called me today and said they "may" have our car down by late tomorrow. If not Monday. Hats off to Reeves for how they've been treading us and how fast they are working on it. However after reading on this forum, other forums, NHSTA, Etc... I have decided to sell the car within 10k miles from getting it back. So My goal is to have the car gone BEFORE the 36k mile mark. I wish I would of gotten the gas motor. Love the Wagen. but I'm not dealing with this. Looks to me like 11k-27k seems to be the window of failure for this pump. I will be looking at getting her a 2009 C300 Sedan or a 2009 328i Sedan/Wagen. CPO. I love my 335i BMW. BMW really stepped up on my HPFP issue. I never had a problem with it, but they did the recall in 4hrs. I'm a 2yr active member on E90post.com and nobody is having issues with the new pump. I love BMW

They know which wheels should "PUSH" the car.. not pull the car. No more VW products in my house. They can join GM on my blacklist. I'll eat a $Hiza sandwhich before I buy another GM or VW.

FYI: Fuel tank was 3/4 when it blew. She drove 150 miles on the tank. It blew late in the evening... 7:30pmish. It was not hot for our standards in Tampa.

darrelld · May 3, 2012

dweisel said:
It could be a combination of things. Ambient temps,fuel system temps and low lubricity fuel. Higher fuel temps would lower lubricity. IIRC,fuel lubricity is tested at 60 degrees........or was it 70. Somewhere in that range???

I am testing that theory in the summer Texas heat. Last year 110+ days with my Jetta idling for up to 30 minutes at a time running A/C. We have already seen record warm temps for the past month. 2010 Jetta TDI just crossed the 18,000 mile mark and I use the cheapest diesel I can find with no additives.

dweisel · May 3, 2012

darrelld said:
I am testing that theory in the summer Texas heat. Last year 110+ days with my Jetta idling for up to 30 minutes at a time running A/C. We have already seen record warm temps for the past month. 2010 Jetta TDI just crossed the 18,000 mile mark and I use the cheapest diesel I can find with no additives.

Even though you buy the cheapest fuel and use no additives the biggest unknown is what the fuel actually specs. Fuel logs of temps compared to ambient temp plus different temps at different fuel levels (especially low fuel tank level) would be interesting info.

I guess the most perplexing and troubling part of failures is we may never pin the exact cause down. Lots of varibles to consider. Or maybe one day,it will suddenly hit us like a ton of bricks.

RNDDUDE · May 3, 2012

It just occured to me, do the labs that we use for UOA have the capability to test diesel also? Has anyone tried this?

dweisel · May 3, 2012

RNDDUDE said:
It just occured to me, do the labs that we use for UOA have the capability to test diesel also? Has anyone tried this?

I had checked with a lab close to Pittsburgh,PA and they wanted over $1,000 for complete testing of all fuel specs. More if test was to be used in litigation. Sorta pricey.

Plus 3 Golfer · May 3, 2012

Besides what benefit would one get by testing one tank of fuel or even fuel from one station. Your next tank of fuel even from the same station could likely vary if the station had a fuel delivery.

pknopp · May 3, 2012

2010TDIWagen said:
Thanks for the info guys. I did post on the official tracker thread with the specified format. VW called me today and said they "may" have our car down by late tomorrow. If not Monday. Hats off to Reeves for how they've been treading us and how fast they are working on it. However after reading on this forum, other forums, NHSTA, Etc... I have decided to sell the car within 10k miles from getting it back. So My goal is to have the car gone BEFORE the 36k mile mark.

Just to note.......from all indications, VW is covering these at least through the 5/60,000 warranty. There are posts here where people have confirmation from VW on that.

pinkertonfloyd · May 3, 2012

Plus 3 Golfer said:
Besides what benefit would one get by testing one tank of fuel or even fuel from one station. Your next tank of fuel even from the same station could likely vary if the station had a fuel delivery.

And even if you get one "brand", I notice more and more stations are not always selling the "product" you think.

I've seen "X" 76 stations with Diesel that will have "X" name on them (a sticker over the brand logo on the pump). One hear even puts a sticker on their Diesel saying "This Product is not a 76 Branded Product". I know a Shell Station that does the same thing. Most Fuel comes from the same tanks for a region, and has the brands "additive package" added when pumped into trucks... but even then, what package would "Bob's Diesel" have even though it's "Bob's 76"... but "Not a 76 Branded Product".

Basically the station owner is just buying Market fuel... and one batch is going to be different than the other. Sadly makes it even harder... even if you only buy "X Brand" of fuel... how do you REALLY know it's "X Brand"?

darrelld · May 3, 2012

If my Jetta blows up I will trade for one of these;

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/che...nt/Pages/news/us/en/2012/Apr/0426_dieselmyths

RabbitGTI · May 3, 2012

darrelld said:
If my Jetta blows up I will trade for one of these;

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/che...nt/Pages/news/us/en/2012/Apr/0426_dieselmyths

Ya got a plan for when that blows up

pwrhungry · May 3, 2012

I will never buy from a company that is still filthy rich and screws.all its stock holders. Really not pleased with what they did and will never purchase a new vehicle from them.

darrelld · May 3, 2012

RabbitGTI said:
Ya got a plan for when that blows up

I would definitely go here next. : D

bhtooefr · May 3, 2012

The only current production diesel vehicles that are considered "normal" size (that is, not a purely commercial vehicle), and are sold in the US, without the CP4 are:

All US-spec Mercedes V6 diesels
Ram Cummins

That's it.

The 2011+ PowerStroke and Duramax have the CP4, so it's the same problem as you have with the VWs. The Cruze Eco-D will almost certainly have a CP4.

darrelld · May 3, 2012

bhtooefr said:
The only current production diesel vehicles that are considered "normal" size (that is, not a purely commercial vehicle), and are sold in the US, without the CP4 are:

All US-spec Mercedes V6 diesels
Ram Cummins

That's it.

The 2011+ PowerStroke and Duramax have the CP4, so it's the same problem as you have with the VWs. The Cruze Eco-D will almost certainly have a CP4.

True but Fords approach at ULSD introduction is more comprehensive according what they submitted to NHTSA;

tico27464 · May 4, 2012

2010TDIWagen said:
<snip>I have decided to sell the car within 10k miles from getting it back. So My goal is to have the car gone BEFORE the 36k mile mark... <snip>.

Sorry this happened to you. And given your circumstances, I can't blame you for wanting to get rid of it asap. But note that the HPFP (and collateral damage) is covered under the 6/60 powertrain warranty, so, from simply a financial standpoint, it might be better to keep it longer. But yea, with needing to be on-call etc., as I said I understand.

Good luck,
~T

2010TDIWagen · May 4, 2012

Guys, I think what it comes down to is owning a diesel vehicle in the US stinks. America is not setup for highly refined/updated small diesel engines. America's diesel is meant to power CAT equipment and Semi's and old F250's. Not cutting edge german 2.0T's. I'm pissed at VW for not stepping up to the plate and fixing the pump, but I also see some blame on our neandertholic fuel supply. Oh well, when in rome do as the romans. Burn gas. Decided on getting my wife a CPO 2009 C300 Automatic sedan. Older platform, been out for a solid 3yrs with a clean bill of health. No recalls, no open defective investigations, Burns GAS which will make her life easier b/c everybody has gas. no turbos, no superchargers, just a straight forward V6 Auto 4 door car. Our 2nd choice is a 2011 Honda CR-V. But I watched some crash videos of it and changed my mind. Also is noisey at hwy speeds (Typ Honda product). This is a shameful situation. We love our VW Jetta Wagen. If we had bought the gas motor we wouldn't be in this boat. Shame on me for buying a 2nd diesel vehicle. My first was a F250. Overall Diesels are not worth the headaches or extra upfront cost and extra maintenance vs today's 100k interval gas motors. I won't buy a diesel again until they are the majority of new car sales. I've been a lab rat once. Turbo Direct Injection Vtec gas engines even drive the point home more, they get almost the mileage of a diesel minus the upfront extra cost of the diesel engine and extra fuel cost and extra maintenance cost... go gas.

40X40 · May 4, 2012

2010TDIWagen said:
Guys, I think what it comes down to is owning a diesel vehicle in the US stinks. America is not setup for highly refined/updated small diesel engines. America's diesel is meant to power CAT equipment and Semi's and old F250's. Not cutting edge german 2.0T's. I'm pissed at VW for not stepping up to the plate and fixing the pump, but I also see some blame on our neandertholic fuel supply. Oh well, when in rome do as the romans. Burn gas. Decided on getting my wife a CPO 2009 C300 Automatic sedan. Older platform, been out for a solid 3yrs with a clean bill of health. No recalls, no open defective investigations, Burns GAS which will make her life easier b/c everybody has gas. no turbos, no superchargers, just a straight forward V6 Auto 4 door car. Our 2nd choice is a 2011 Honda CR-V. But I watched some crash videos of it and changed my mind. Also is noisey at hwy speeds (Typ Honda product). This is a shameful situation. We love our VW Jetta Wagen. If we had bought the gas motor we wouldn't be in this boat. Shame on me for buying a 2nd diesel vehicle. My first was a F250. Overall Diesels are not worth the headaches or extra upfront cost and extra maintenance vs today's 100k interval gas motors. I won't buy a diesel again until they are the majority of new car sales. I've been a lab rat once. Turbo Direct Injection Vtec gas engines even drive the point home more, they get almost the mileage of a diesel minus the upfront extra cost of the diesel engine and extra fuel cost and extra maintenance cost... go gas.

Go quickly. Go far. Be HAPPY. Thanks for joining up 3 days ago to tell us you are leaving!

Goodbye,

Bill

tdi90hp · May 4, 2012

sad to see you go. Thousands of us are motoring along. But heck I would be upset as well I guess. good luck with that MB. good solid car but they are a GAS pig.

kjclow · May 4, 2012

RabbitGTI said:
Ya got a plan for when that blows up

darrelld · May 4, 2012

kjclow said:

Fisher-Price Recalls Children's Trikes Due to Risk of Serious Injury

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml10/10359.html

I traded mine off and will never buy another. : )

kjclow · May 4, 2012

But this is a Radio Flyer!

darrelld · May 4, 2012

kjclow said:
But this is a Radio Flyer!

Yea but after this happened to me I think all trikes suck, no one knows how to build trikes anymore I am going for a motorcycle next time.

2010TDIWagen · May 4, 2012

UPDATE: VW regional case manager just called me. Offered me +1yr & 10,000 Mile extension warranty on this part. Guess what. She told me this repair is only covered under the 36,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and is NOT covered under the powertrain warranty!!!!!! F'k VW. This will be our last VW/Audi product.

RabbitGTI · May 4, 2012

2010TDIWagen said:
UPDATE: VW regional case manager just called me. Offered me +1yr & 10,000 Mile extension warranty on this part. Guess what. She told me this repair is only covered under the 36,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty and is NOT covered under the powertrain warranty!!!!!! F'k VW. This will be our last VW/Audi product.

That sucks. I see Craigslist in your future.

NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

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