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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

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Old November 6th, 2017, 16:16   #3436
TooSlick
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Mr Lion,

Spectrographic oil analysis can't discern whether it's abrasive silicon, or polymeric silicon(e) in the used oil sample. What you're seeing here is normal chemical leaching of silicone from new seals and/or gaskets. It causes no harm and will dissipate after a few more oil changes

If you had 45 ppm of abrasive silicon in this sample, your upper engine metals (Cr/Fe/Al/Nickel), would be severely elevated. Such is not the case here....

TS
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Old November 6th, 2017, 16:21   #3437
TooSlick
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I would keep an eye on that lead level though! That's coming from the soft bearing overlays and is generally indicative of corrosive or chemical wear, or an oil that's much too thin for the application. It could also be tied to the parts you had replaced, but again it should drop down to 1-3 ppm over time.

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Old November 6th, 2017, 18:18   #3438
mountain lion
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TooSlick,

Thanks much for the review! I had a feeling it might just be new parts - the silicon had me worried though as Blackstone assumes it's abrasive.

As for the copper and lead - I've read a couple articles and the cam threads here stating that the shell bearings for the cam (which were replaced) contain lead and copper - hopefully what I'm seeing is a result of break in since I'm only at 22k miles on the new parts. I have the cut bearings franko6 supplied which does expose copper on the top bearings. I've always used M1 TDT and in the first 4 reports, has always worked well. My original cam was in good shape, but I swapped it out during the injector work since I was in there.

All I can do now is drive more and see how things progress.

Thanks again. Best,
ML
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Old November 7th, 2017, 15:02   #3439
Mrrogers1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountain lion View Post
TooSlick,

Thanks much for the review! I had a feeling it might just be new parts - the silicon had me worried though as Blackstone assumes it's abrasive.

As for the copper and lead - I've read a couple articles and the cam threads here stating that the shell bearings for the cam (which were replaced) contain lead and copper - hopefully what I'm seeing is a result of break in since I'm only at 22k miles on the new parts. I have the cut bearings franko6 supplied which does expose copper on the top bearings. I've always used M1 TDT and in the first 4 reports, has always worked well. My original cam was in good shape, but I swapped it out during the injector work since I was in there.

All I can do now is drive more and see how things progress.

Thanks again. Best,
ML
I was going to ask about break-in process but if you're in contact with Frank, I'm sure you broke in like he recommends.
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Old November 20th, 2017, 12:09   #3440
tootall424
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Just got my oil report back. Doesnt look good for a TDI Touareg with only 51k

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Old November 20th, 2017, 18:40   #3441
bbexotics
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Get rid of Amzoil, don't believe everything you read in regards to that oil. There is no way they can compete with companies like Mobil or Shell or any major oil companies. 30 years ago my Porsche 930 blew up cause Amzoil, engine temperature broke down viscosity and the results were catastrophic. Have never used that oil since then. Porsche checked the engine themselves since car was still under warranty, so to me, I will never use . To each his own.
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Old November 21st, 2017, 11:25   #3442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tootall424 View Post
Just got my oil report back. Doesnt look good for a TDI Touareg with only 51k
[IMG]Image Removed[/IMG]
I'd probably switch to VW recommended oil, run 10k (is the OCI for that motor 10k or 7k??) and see what the results look like. From what I have seen (I am by no means a guru, I'll leave TooSlick to that) the 507 spec oils seem to always be done doing their job right around 10k, at least in the 2L CRD VW motors. I don't know one way or the other on the Amsoil BUT judging from Blackstones' qualitative feedback, I'd run commonly recommended oil for the commonly recommended interval and check back.

Good luck man!
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Old November 21st, 2017, 11:55   #3443
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That amsoil 5w-30 might well be a 507 spec oil. I'd probably try a low ash 5w-40. Chrysler recently changed the oil spec on their 3.0L diesel from 5w-30 to 5w-40 due to wear issues with the 5w-30.
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Old November 21st, 2017, 12:09   #3444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrrogers1 View Post
I'd probably switch to VW recommended oil, run 10k (is the OCI for that motor 10k or 7k??) and see what the results look like. From what I have seen (I am by no means a guru, I'll leave TooSlick to that) the 507 spec oils seem to always be done doing their job right around 10k, at least in the 2L CRD VW motors. I don't know one way or the other on the Amsoil BUT judging from Blackstones' qualitative feedback, I'd run commonly recommended (and well documented) oil for the commonly recommended interval and check back.

Good luck man!
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Originally Posted by turbobrick240 View Post
That amsoil 5w-30 might well be a 507 spec oil. I'd probably try a low ash 5w-40. Chrysler recently changed the oil spec on their 3.0L diesel from 5w-30 to 5w-40 due to wear issues with the 5w-30.
Updated my post a little.

I figuring to get back to a known baseline to rule out issues with the vehicle. Heck, maybe give Blackstone a call just to confirm what oil, most commonly, they're universal average is based on. It might be a bit presumptuous to assume it's LL03, regardless, they are always helpful when I've needed to talk to them.

Maybe VW has OR will switch to a different spec as Chrysler but since there is so many things that could be effecting his numbers, I'd be trying to rule out an actual issue with the motor. Following VW specs and seeing where it lines up with Blackstone Universal averages and go from there is the most unscientific way I can think of to do that.

With what Turbobrick said, I'd make the "go from there" as long as the motor is much more in line with the averages, trying the Chrysler recommended spec oil at the SAME OCI as the VW OCI to see how the numbers shake out.
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Old November 21st, 2017, 12:49   #3445
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Tootall424,

In my professional opinion, and having interpreted the results of hundreds of oil analyses over the past 23 years, you have a coolant leak that is degrading the lubricating properties of the oil and causing abnormal wear. I'd have an analysis done by another lab like Oil Analyzers that also tests for the TBN, as well as Oxidation & Nitration levels. In the meantime I'd reduce your service interval by 50%. I'm assuming this engine is DPF equipped and that's why you're using a VW 504/507 spec oil?

This Amsoil 5w-30 European Formula is on VW/Audis Approved List and works just fine. It has one of the more robust additive chemistries I've seen for a low "SAPS" oil, with a starting TBN of 8.8. Trying to fix mechanical problems by switching oils simply does not work. You need to find the root cause(s) of the issue and address those. As a general rule I would not exceed VW's recommended service interval of 10k miles, unless you "step" up service intervals gradually - say in 2k increments - supported by used oil analysis.

TS
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Old November 21st, 2017, 13:59   #3446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooSlick View Post
Tootall424,
Trying to fix mechanical problems by switching oils simply does not work.You need to find the root cause(s) of the issue and address those. As a general rule I would not exceed VW's recommended service interval of 10k miles, unless you "step" up service intervals gradually - say in 2k increments - supported by used oil analysis.
TS
I completely agree- assuming there is a mechanical problem. If coolant hasn't been disappearing, I wouldn't be convinced that coolant contamination of the oil is the issue. The aluminum wear is high, but the iron wear is about average on a per mile basis, according to Blackstone. Another thing to consider is that it doesn't take much contamination of the oil sample to skew numbers significantly when measurements are in parts per million.
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Old November 21st, 2017, 20:57   #3447
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thanks guys. I honestly forgot about the oil change because my inspection service light was on also. I normally run the 10k interval. The current oil I will run for 7k and see what that does.

I plan on turning this vehicle in for buyback in the next year, so I dont know how much I should even worry about it.
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Old November 30th, 2017, 06:21   #3448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountain lion View Post
TooSlick,
Thanks much for the review! I had a feeling it might just be new parts - the silicon had me worried though as Blackstone assumes it's abrasive.
As for the copper and lead - I've read a couple articles and the cam threads here stating that the shell bearings for the cam (which were replaced) contain lead and copper - hopefully what I'm seeing is a result of break in since I'm only at 22k miles on the new parts. I have the cut bearings franko6 supplied which does expose copper on the top bearings. I've always used M1 TDT and in the first 4 reports, has always worked well. My original cam was in good shape, but I swapped it out during the injector work since I was in there.
All I can do now is drive more and see how things progress.
Thanks again. Best,
ML
You are correct, the cam bearings take time to conform. You should gradually
break the cam bearings in by increasing throttle load ( injector load) gradually.

The bearings are steel backed with a initially soft copper intermediate lay of about .013 thick. This copper conforms to the cam journal and at the same time the heat cycles gradually cycle harden the copper.

I am not sure what your injector loads are if you have replaced them, but no matter stock or not this initial copper must conform and harden gradually.

I think we have all forgotten about the cam bearing threads but i have narrowed it down to stock bearings will work fine if broken in properly and I even run the cam belt loose for the first 10,000 miles.

Oil hammer has said he sees no change in the cam bearings after 60,000 miles.

Last edited by James & Son; November 30th, 2017 at 06:26.
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