BEW aka black lifter issues holding cam open??

BEW aka black lifter issues holding valves open and causing damage??

Quickly talked to Geoff at Colt today and he mentioned the black nitrided lifters have an internal spring or something that will hold the valve open and cause piston to valve damage and also reduce lift???? He didn't have time to send me the video but will in the next few days, on how to mod the black lifter so that won't happen.
Anyone heard anything like this? I was going to do my cam tonight on my PD, went flat, but holding off until I can get this figured out.

Never heard of that, and the only ones I have ever used are the INA branded ones which look black to me. I have only ever used KS camshafts, though.

Never seen it !! all the lifters have springs in them if they are new should be good to go. If they were run ( pumped up) you need to press the center plunger in a vice to remove the oil inside before installing in the engine.

Got me freaked out, I've used the black INA's before. Guess I'll wait until he sends me the info and I'll post it here.

Got the video, here you go!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty-sdftGx40&feature=youtu.be

I did rebuilt many pd engines after cam wear and never had an issue with the INA black lifters...

4 different cams on 4 different engines - no issues here either. Keep in mind the engines were between 150-330k miles and were not worn out by any means but just starting to get to the chamfer on the lobs. Nothing to warrant oil pump replacement.

all hydro lifters have springs ... one note of advice: do NOT use assembly lube in the lifter bore or the lifter OD, only use it on the lobe to lifter interface.... assembly lube is too viscous and won't allow proper lifter bleed down on initial assembly... only use motor oil ... just had someone call me with this very issue, car was misfiring on one cylinder after new cam/lifter install, sure enough they had used thick lube on the bores and it held one valve slightly open until enough of the lube washed away to let the lifter bleed down

jimbote said:

all hydro lifters have springs ... one note of advice: do NOT use assembly lube in the lifter bore or the lifter OD, only use it on the lobe to lifter interface.... assembly lube is too viscous and won't allow proper lifter bleed down on initial assembly... only use motor oil ... just had someone call me with this very issue, car was misfiring on one cylinder after new cam/lifter install, sure enough they had used thick lube on the bores and it held one valve slightly open until enough of the lube washed away to let the lifter bleed down

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Good advice on the lube.

The ALH lifters don't have a spring.

turbovan+tdi said:

Good advice on the lube.
The ALH lifters don't have a spring.

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are you sure about that ? i think the hydraulic "pill" inserted into the lifter body does have a small spring... i can check later

jimbote said:

are you sure about that ? i think the hydraulic "pill" inserted into the lifter body does have a small spring... i can check later

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I checked my OE PD one's just now, has the spring, checked an old ALH one I had kicking around, no spring and checked a brand new INA ALH lifter yesterday and no spring????

Got the job done last night, engine is now very, very quiet, its eery, lol. The power, damn, this explains my degrading power, didn't think it was the cam at first, tires won't stop spinning.

my alh lifters (reused a few times now) did the pump up thing when I filled them before installing, younger and dumber I guess. Definitely have a spring in them, take the piston out of the hydraulic pill in the tappet, there's a spring in there and a sheetmetal cap, then another spring and the checkball.

Had to leave a breaker bar on the crank bolt with about a hundred lbs hanging on the handle to get them to pump down. Squeezing them with the piston, of course.

I never had to do something like that, I usualy take them out of the box, put them in one by one then by the time I finish fitting the cam, shells and time the engine, the engine turns over without much bother ! If it doesn’t then I leave it over night however I had a cheap aftermarket cam break in 2 pieces once but I blamed the cheap nature of the metal- it looked like it was forged by someone in its garden !

I have never done this spring removal. Matter of fact, that video calls out .011" lash. That's really not so. The hydraulics are a virtual Zero lash device.

I don't know, I could be wrong, but with a fussy PD cam, we have installed around 40,000 INA nitrided lifters and have never seen a problem lifter. Overall, we have over 100,000 INA lifters installed. We have seen a lifter with the spring missing and you can sure hear it when it's not there.

I agree with Jim, lube the top of the lifter and the cam; not the bore. The correct nitrided lifter number we prefer to use is the INA number: F-46516-83. The very first PD we ever put together, they used that VW number and we got the wrong lifter. They lasted 100 miles and ruined our expensive cam and lifter set.

There are actually 2 springs in that lifter. I don't think I am interested in removing the larger one. We only have about 10 years experience and thousands of cams to base our opinion on.

I just put some black INA lifters in my engine a few days ago and nothing weird happened.

The video linked is my video.

The large spring inside the lifter, in addition to the 3 piece piston design results in a hydraulic lifter that runs a valve lash of around 0.014".
The diesel motors are too loud for you to hear much of a difference.
As mentioned in the video they were installed in a 1991 928GT with heavier valve springs (seat pressure around 90#). With them installed the idle was not consistent, and the car was not making the same power as before.
The car was also noticeably louder at idle and sounded like a solid lifter engine with the lash set too large.
Upon removing that large spring (not the small spring which keeps the check valve ball in place) the engine was back to being properly quiet and back to making full power.

The factory cam grinds have a ridge in them that is around 0.011" and you see numerous companies offering up a "true hydraulic grind" on the cams. The factory added this spring in an attempt to help reduce wear by having the hydraulic lifters maintain a valve lash like you would have in a solid profile grind. But the solid profile grinds use an entry ramp followed by a quietening ramp. The factory VW grind has something like an entry ramp, but no quietening ramp to follow it.

So if you are using a factory camshaft that has never been reground with a proper hydraulic grind, then use the lifter with the spring. If you are running a cam with a hydraulic grind you will see more life and likely an increase in power from removing the spring from the lifter.

Reviving old threads is getting popular.

So what's wrong with bumping 1½ year old thread with more detailed information?

At some point, I will be doing a BEW cam. While this one has my attention, I think I am going to see if any other info comes to light to explain why this is such a threat.
cheers,
Douglas

I took the spring out, engine is quiet, so meh! Lol.

Markus L said:

So what's wrong with bumping 1½ year old thread with more detailed information?

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Exactly.

turbovan+tdi said:

Exactly.

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Especially when the poster is a very well experienced cam installer. Wish he was on the east coast of the USA and I could have him install my stage 3 v10tdi cams. I know he got his when I got mine and can’t wait to get them in!

Hi all,
I did head gasket job last saturday but things get wrong.
Head was rebuild (grinding/valve guides/etc.).
I checked timing twice after installation. It was fine. Than I disconnected IP (VP37) and start cranking to get oil in the system and in the lifters. After 10-15 seconds of crancking pistons starts to hit valves.
I checked timing again but it was OK.
Then I swaped to old lifters and pistons stop to hit the valves, so I connected the IP connector and engine starts ok.
What should happen?
Now I have power loss and white smoke during cold start. So I think that valve(s) are not sealing well now.
Hope that conrods are OK.

Probably bent valves.