How to import a used European TDI?

BWoody

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Viroqua, Wisc
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1997 VW Passat TDI
I need a van and want a VW TDI Eurovan. I know they sold them in Europe. Does anybody have any suggestions on how to import a 2000 or so TDI Eurovan to the states? I have a friend with German citizenship who lives near me and my niece is going to Amsterdam for 6 months for a dental school residency.
 

dieseldorf

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MA
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Woody, can't be done. If it could, everyone, including myself would have already done it.


Review NHTSA importation guidelines.
 

catmandoo

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ia
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2000 jetta gls tdi,91 2dr jetta gl n/a diesel
you would have to buy a U.S. spec'ed van over there.friend of mine has been living in germany for the last 17 yrs.he bought a U.S. spec'ed 2000 vw weekender van new,but could not get a diesel at the time.so got the vr6.weather or not they were even availible or just none out there is hard to say.
 

Dave_D

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You can bring over any car you want ... piece by piece by piece.
True, but you better have a US spec body with appropriate VIN to stuff those parts into if you intend to register it for street use. And unless you have a fabrication works to custom make mounts, pans, etc. you ought to plan to get a body that matches the one used on the european model so that those parts fit properly.
 

BWoody

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Viroqua, Wisc
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1997 VW Passat TDI
Would any Eurovan body due? I read the thread about the V6 AWD TDI Passat conversion and it seems rather intimidating for a non mechanic. I assume the 10K in cost was without labor.
 

spotfire

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petaluma, Ca.
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golf, 2002, silver
TDI vans in Mexico

I also would love a TDI T5. Check the VW de Mexico site. They sell them there. Going down and getting one and driving it back would be no problem, but I still haven't figured out how to legally register it here. Any suggestions??? Group buy????
 

William J Toensing

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2014 TDI Jetta "value edition" 4 door
There is one possible loophole but never tried it. Europeans can bring cars into the USA for temporary personal use but must agree to export the vehicles. However I have heard of German & other European military coming to the USA & bringing their cars with them. In some areas they have to register them locally. Once registered in a state I have heard you are "home free" & if sold, apparently is treated like a legal American spec car. I have heard the feds don't follow up to see that cars brought in legally for temporary use but they might if someone makes a complaint to the proper authorities. You might also have problems getting insurance on the car. I wouldn't recommend doing this since you might possibly lose your car. My favorite cars are Citroens but Citroen has been out of the U.S. market since 1973. I do have a 1979 Citroen CX diesel "gray market" car which someone else brought into the USA & had it legally converted to USA specs. Its a nightmare I wouldn't want to go thru & understand after the early '80s it became much more difficult because individuals were bringing in M Benz Euro spec cars they could then buy new in Europe for around $13,000, pay $1,000 for shipping, $3,000 for conversion to U.S. EPA-DOT specs & sell them at a nice profit for less than the M. Benz wholesale USA cost for similar models then carrying a MSRP of $30,000. I heard that M. Benz, BMW, & Porsche then lobbyed congress to get the law changed so that the manufacturer could state a vehicle of theirs DID NOT meet USA DOT-EPA specs even though it actually did since some country's specs (Sweden & Japan) for example, exceeded USA DOT-EPA specs except for some minor issue like installing a serial number in the left bottom windshield area visable from the outside.
I resent such laws & I presume most of you do too.
I think it would be far more inexpensive to import diesel engines & related accessories & convert gas engined VWs & other cars to diesel but you would have to know these cars inside & out, what differences exist between similar gas & diesel models, etc. Does anyone know anyone making these conversions? I think someone could make some money here if they lined up a reliable source in Europe for wrecked TDIs with good engines, imported them & installed them in gas VW Jettas, Golfs, etc.
It is my understanding that if a car is 25 years or older, you can now import any such vehicle legally & not have to modify it to DOT-EPA specs. Before doing so, I would carefully research U.S. customs regulations to make sure this is legal & don't rely on my info here.
 

William J Toensing

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Location
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2014 TDI Jetta "value edition" 4 door
Importing a TDI

spotfire said:
I also would love a TDI T5. Check the VW de Mexico site. They sell them there. Going down and getting one and driving it back would be no problem, but I still haven't figured out how to legally register it here. Any suggestions??? Group buy????
What would happen if you drove an American spec gas powered VW into Mexico (Eurovan, Jetta, or Golf) & the engine broke down, & you then replaced the engine with a TDI from a totaled Mexican TDI. If you could find a reliable source, you might be able to buy a wrecked TDI in Mexico & legally import it for parts. If you live in Calif., you had better check if you can convert a gas engined VW to a diesel as diesels in Calif. are currently exempt from the smog check, as you probably know.
 

bhtooefr

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Ah, and there you found one of the CARB loopholes that we might have found - your car "breaks down" in front of a dealership, and the car with the best MPGs that that dealership sells is a TDI.

Basically, buy a Eurovan that, on the same frame, had a TDI as an option, and drive it into Mexico. Pull the oil drain plug about a mile from a junkyard that can do the TDI conversion. Drive it in - without the oil drain plug. The idea is that you want to wreck the engine in it, so that it's DEFINITELY dead, and you HAVE to buy another one. You were told that it was an engine that would work in your vehicle.
 

rotarykid

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Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
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1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
If you can't buy it here , you can't bring to here

There are too many issues to go into them all . The main one is design differances in safety . Airbags are even different in Europe . This the main road block . Lack of US tested emissions is another brick wall to cross .

We can't even import diesel cars from Canada due to different laws, believe me I've tried !!! Europe forget it :mad: . Not going to happen .

Sorry
 

rotarykid

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Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
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1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
When I lived in Hawaii 13 years ago a fellow had bought a old style Beetle new in Mexico a few years earlier and brought it to Hawaii . He used the vin # off an old US spec Beetle to register the car in the state . He got away with it until in a yearly safety inspection the guy inspecting the car noticed the vin # stamped in the trunk didn't match the vin plate on the dash .

The state confiscated the car and shipped it back to Mexico . He also had to pay a really large fine .
 

bhtooefr

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Hmm... there's better ways to do THAT...

VIN stamped in the trunk different? Grab the trunk from the same car that you get the VIN plate from (unless it was in the frame, in which case you'll have to do the Mexican-body-and-engine-on-US-frame trick...)
 

d2305

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William J Toensing said:
What would happen if you drove an American spec gas powered VW into Mexico (Eurovan, Jetta, or Golf) & the engine broke down, & you then replaced the engine with a TDI from a totaled Mexican TDI. If you could find a reliable source, you might be able to buy a wrecked TDI in Mexico & legally import it for parts. If you live in Calif., you had better check if you can convert a gas engined VW to a diesel as diesels in Calif. are currently exempt from the smog check, as you probably know.
I read that Mexico has no TDIs.:eek:
 

jck66

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Greenwich, CT, USA
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William J Toensing said:
However I have heard of German & other European military coming to the USA...
Do you mean "diplomatic"? I didn't think the Germans were allowed to have a military, and when was the last time you heard of a foreign military base in the US?

William J Toensing said:
I think it would be far more inexpensive to import diesel engines & related accessories & convert gas engined VWs & other cars to diesel but you would have to know these cars inside & out, what differences exist between similar gas & diesel models, etc. Does anyone know anyone making these conversions? I think someone could make some money here if they lined up a reliable source in Europe for wrecked TDIs with good engines, imported them & installed them in gas VW Jettas, Golfs, etc.
This has been done successfully (most notably with a B5 Passat AWD), and thanks to ETKA and VAG-COM can be done on VW's a lot more easily than other cars. I've been eyeballing a BMW 325i to 325tds conversion for a while, but as far as I can tell there is a serious lack of information available in comparison to VW/Audi.

Also, a while back there was a fellow in the Seattle or Portland area offering Euro drivetrains for sale. Haven't seen him here lately though.
 

mavapa

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rome, ga
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2001 golf
I strongly suspect that some of the suggestions here are illegal. You will almost certainly eventually run into trouble at registration or inspection time if you alter VINs in all states, or if you replace a conforming engine with a nonconforming engine in some states and, perhaps, eventually in all states. I think you can probably do pretty much anything you want to with vehicles built before certain safety or pollution control requirements were implemented, but then you give up all the technical advances of the last couple of decades.

Not that I wouldn't like some of the vehicles offered outside the good, ol', best-of-everything-in-the-world USA.
 

rotarykid

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Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
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I would first like to add a little background to my statements .

I started working on Porsches US & gray market in 1978 . Gray Market was mainly emission related at the time . Now it is as much Safety & as emissions . Emissions I'll buy that one , maybe then but not really now . But the safety one has been bogus from the start .

If you are going to buy that one , Canadian sold cars are higher emission & less safe that the cars on the US lots . That is bull !!!!!!!

In reallity the real limiting factor is car makers don't want anyone going around ther dealer networkes . So we now have laws that garantee a monopaly on what can be sold here .

I'll give a perfect example , one from my own experience .

In 93 VW introduced the 1.9 IDI Eco-Diesel in the A3 Golf & Jetta in Canada .

VW knew many Americans like me wanted them . But not enough people loke were around to go to the trouble the certify the cars for US specs. I tried to import one of these but was prevented . This was due to the fact that under US law VW would have had certian responsibilities if enough of them came accross the border . So VW never built one to meet the US safety spec. with air bags .

So VW built diesel powered cars that they knew would never be importable to the US . You couldn't get the air bag option on any IDI diesels sold in Canada from 93 to 97 .

While all the gas cars were built with air bag option and to US , California & Canadian Emission spec. ( said so on the emission sticker under the hood ) and could be easilly imported .

So I from experience don't buy your argument of we are trading in safety & emissions if we gray market something . That argumant just doesn't hold water , never really did .

David
 

mavapa

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When I talked about safety features and emissions standards, I was talking about the law. You might not like the law, but that won't help much if you show up in court accused of violating it.
 

bhtooefr

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Newark, OH
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The other thing you could do is make a kit car.

Would importing all of the parts to manufacture your own VW car be possible, for it to be labeled as a kit car? At that point, I don't think you'd need to meet the same emissions and safety standards to be legal...
 

William J Toensing

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2014 TDI Jetta "value edition" 4 door
What about buying TDI engines in Europe from wrecked VWs & shipping them over here. Are the motor mounts, wiring harnesses & other parts so different that it is impractical to convert a VW gasser to a TDI? I know it is for me, but someone who knows VWs backwards & forwards, who specializes in them. Why wouldn't it make business sense to line up a reliable source of TDI engines & related parts in Europe, import the engines & convert the gassers to diesels? Lets hear from the experts. Is there anyone here in the USA doing this? If this isn't feasable or not cost effective, lets hear why.
 

supton

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While I've heard of spot checks for running untaxed fuel, I've never heard of spot checks where they check to see if your car is running properly and all legal--that is, on the side of the road.

I've heard that all the VW motors share the same bolt pattern to the tranny. While it wouldn't be fun, could one just swap in and out a TDI for 99% of the year, and a 2.0 gasser around inspection/emission time? I mean, if you have money to burn to import and convert, chances are you money to keep a spare 2.0 and all the related parts around... I think some states emissions checks are every other year, that's not too often really.

That would only get you the diesel motor into a gasser US chassis--no way it seems one could get Euro chassis here.
 

mavapa

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William, the problem will come if you live where there is pollution testing, as so many large cities do. It will be hard to hide the fact that a vehicle that used to have a gasoline engine now has a diesel engine. Not to mention the fact that you can buy a whole lot of gasoline for what it would cost to convert a gasser to a diesel engine.
 

jck66

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Some states have converted from tailpipe testing to OBD testing. They just look for a CEL, plug in, read your "readiness" and you're good to go. I believe CT is this way based on their DMV web site.
 

SilverD

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Quote:

"Do you mean "diplomatic"? I didn't think the Germans were allowed to
have a military, and when was the last time you heard of a
foreign military base in the US? "


Germany certainly has a military, and they train a certain number of troops here in the US. As noted above in the thread, the cars they bring in are supposed to leave with them, but every so often a car hangs around. Back in the '80s my dad bought a '76 Citroen CX 2200 Diesel in Texas which had been brought in by a German military man stationed in El Paso. Supposedly it had been air freighted in and thus never went through customs. It wasn't supposed to be registered, either, but the officer managed to somehow get Texas plates on it. He subsequently left the military, but worked in Texas for awhile. When he went back to Germany as a civilian he just sold the car rather than bother to take it back. My dad was happy to replace an old ID19 with the CX.

I wouldn't try this today, though, as standards are much tougher. Friends of mine here in California had a CX gasser sold legally here as a grey market car, but eventually the DMV requested copies of ALL the original importation and certification data before they would approve a new smog check on the car - this after 15 years of the car being legally in the state! Since the importer had gone out of business and the data was unobtainable my friend reluctantly sold the car to someone in another state who had better luck with his DMV. Although this is a different situation than the one at hand, the moral of the story is that even if you can get it registered once you may be vulnerable in the event that your DMV changes any registration procedures or if someone notices something unusual about your car's paperwork.

The whole situation just sucks for those of us who would really like something not readily available here.
 

truman

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At this year's TDI Fest a gentleman from Chicago showed up to dyno his Saab 9-3 2.2 DIESEL. He imported it himself. He did go to quite a bit of trouble and the car sat stateside for 10mo, dealing w/ the bureaucrats. GM and Saab USA gave him no help- he went thru Trollhatten to get it done. May not be practicle, but apparently it can be done under the right circumstances.
 

jck66

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SilverD, I guess I stand corrected. :) Personally I think it's a bad idea, though. Next you'll be telling me that the Japanese have a Navy again...
 
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