First impression of a fixed 3.0L TDI Gen 2

jking11

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Location
Florida
TDI
14-Touareg & 14-Q5
Another unhappy driver

Like Bird, I used to post much more. I poked my head in here today looking for updates about my wife's Q5. Today I drove my Touareg X for the third time post fix. I drive a long stretch of road at 5 am with no traffic. Pre-fix I would see instant consumption similar to the 45 mph I am driving. Post fix I am mid 30's.

I have been adamant about a buy-back. Let VW resell the cars if they can fix them and market them. The notion of a SW fix has always seemed silly, if the problem was that simple, we wouldn't be here today. I have cashed the $10k of checks from Bosch and VW. I actually was a member of the class represented by Robbins Geller Rudman & Dowd LLP. I knew more about the settlement reading here than I learned from them.

I believe we were not made whole by the settlement, and I believe $10k does not cover the depreciation of my vehicle due to the dieselgate scandal. I do not believe most new car dealers will touch a VW diesel as part of a trade-in deal. Especially the less common 3L models.
 

bhuizer

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2017
Location
Iowa
TDI
2014 Toureg TDI, 2014 Q5 TDI, Past: 2012 Touareg TDI, 2012 Jetta TDI
Looking at NADA, values have tanked for 3.0's in the last month. My 2014 Treg Lux went from retail value of $33,500, down to $27,000. The market is starting to get flooded.
 

bird67

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Location
Snowy North
TDI
2014 Touareg TDI*
To lighten the mood, I will add that I was at my VW dealer today for my 60k service. The shuttle driver gave me a ride in a brand new Atlas. It made me happy that, despite everything I dislike about the settlement, at least they didn't force me to take an Atlas as a replacement. I was hugely unimpressed. The Touareg feels like the Cayenne sibling that it is. The Atlas feels like a Jetta expanded 50% to fit a third row. This is nothing against Jettas - they are perfectly nice cars for their niche - but the Atlas as Touareg replacement is a bomb.
 

bhuizer

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2017
Location
Iowa
TDI
2014 Toureg TDI, 2014 Q5 TDI, Past: 2012 Touareg TDI, 2012 Jetta TDI
To lighten the mood, I will add that I was at my VW dealer today for my 60k service. The shuttle driver gave me a ride in a brand new Atlas. It made me happy that, despite everything I dislike about the settlement, at least they didn't force me to take an Atlas as a replacement. I was hugely unimpressed. The Touareg feels like the Cayenne sibling that it is. The Atlas feels like a Jetta expanded 50% to fit a third row. This is nothing against Jettas - they are perfectly nice cars for their niche - but the Atlas as Touareg replacement is a bomb.
I'm with you there, the Atlas is an oversized golf. Nice car I'm sure but not a replacement for the Touareg. Honestly, I'm not sure what I would replace my Touareg with that would feel like an equal or better car at the same price point.
 

dyehead

Active member
Joined
May 11, 2017
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
2013 Q7 Prestige
To add a point to the conversation here:

I was told that I would not receive my settlement money unless the fix was performed.

I'm one of the owners who planned on keeping my Q7 until the extended warranty period expired, and then probably until it cost more to upkeep than I'd make selling it.

The car is not undrivable, but it also doesn't feel like the car I test drove and bought. I'm really very unhappy with the fix as is, after 2 weeks.

I'd like to see actual numbers from pre-fix and post, on a dyno.

The car feels much heavier to drive now - more sluggish, less responsive. Not that I race it 0-60 ever but I feel like rapid acceleration is also worse, like when entering a freeway.

I live up a mountain (1600ft elevation) and have to go up and down multiple times a day. The changes make it feel that while the vehicle isn't *struggling,* it's definitely working harder for the same output. Maybe the torque was reduced as a byproduct?

Overall, I'm not sure what to think/do. I'd really like to hear more opinions of folks who got the fix and drive it as their daily in situations where they have to go up/downhill, around corners etc and not just flat roads.

I'm awaiting my response from the lawyers and as to whether or not there's anything that can be done.
 

Mythdoc

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Location
Tennessee
TDI
2011 Touareg, 2015 Q5, 2015 Golf
Dr. Myth, what do you say about this?
There have been bubbles in the market. Before the settlement was announced prices were lower as people dumped cars in disgust, then they went up as people bought cars hoping for a buyback and as others held on waiting to see what would happen. Now the prices are dropping again and will continue to do so. Some owners are in the habit of having a new car every few years and are motivated sellers. Over time the market will stabilize and it prices will drop slowly, like all cars.

I do think the extended warranty will help people sell their vehicles, once the bubble stabilizes.
 

Ddbass

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Location
Athens, GA
TDI
2013 Q7 PP
I'm late to this discussion. I bought a '13 Q7 3.0 TDI, at what I considered a very low price. Prior owner got half the settlement, I get the 2nd half ($3.9k) and the Bosch ($1.5) money.

I had the fix done last month (didn't get the free tank of fuel...yet) and I'm on my 3rd tank since the fix. I believe my mpg is down 4+ mpg in town and 4+ mpg hwy, not a percentage (...so a relatively greater drop in town). Last tank was under 17 in mixed so I was pretty upset. I talked with my Audi service advisor about it today and he said he'd look into it. I also notice more engine noise, and similar power and torque losses.

I loved the car before the fix. The $5.4k hush money was a major factor in my buying decision. I knew a fix was coming with a slight mpg reduction - 1 mpg the sticker says, but my experience is far worse. If a chip (Chipwerks) or a tune will restore my fuel mileage and power then I'm a happy camper. If not then I will need to stay on Audi for some fine tuning, or sell.
 

bhuizer

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2017
Location
Iowa
TDI
2014 Toureg TDI, 2014 Q5 TDI, Past: 2012 Touareg TDI, 2012 Jetta TDI
It really sounds like the Q7's got the shaft compared to the Touaregs based on your guys' feedback. I've been driving my fixed '14 Touareg for about a month now, and I don't have much to complain about.
 

MTB_TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
May 28, 2003
Location
Utah
TDI
02 Golf MT indigo blue pearl 4 dr & '15 Touareg TDI
I'm guessing that they tuned the TCU and ECU with the new tune. We now get more slip in the transmission because they don't lock it out as much so it can produce more heat for a faster warm up. This may explain why it coasts better now too. It sounds like it is much more like a slushbox than the DSG used to feel because it locked out so much.

Hopefully a tuner can get the TCU tune that was stock and then retune our DSGs so we get that part of the equation back. Then with our transmissions back to the original spec, we can get a tune and be better than ever.

That is my hope.
 

bhuizer

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2017
Location
Iowa
TDI
2014 Toureg TDI, 2014 Q5 TDI, Past: 2012 Touareg TDI, 2012 Jetta TDI
I would be all about getting the factory trans tune put back in. I hate the new shift parameters during warm-up. I find myself shifting it manually so it doesn't hold at 2500+ RPM when driving through town. Once it's up to temp I don't notice much difference.
 

DUTCH VanAtlanta

Active member
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Location
Atlanta, GA USA
TDI
2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI
I have a 2015 Q7 3.0 TDI and have received half of the VW money and all of the Bosch. From what I'm reading, the second half ($4,776.67) of the VW money is not worth the damage they are doing to the vehicle when they "fix" it.
 

lord diesel

Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Location
Calgary
TDI
2000' Jetta TDi, 2016' Audi Q5 TDI
I'd be curious to know if anyones spoken to Malone tuning re "fixing" the fix? When I last spoke to their rep some time ago here in Canada, I interpreted his comments to mean they can not alter any of the ecu map which concerns engine emissions. So does this mean that they are limited in undoing what Audi has done to the ecu code? Based on what I'm reading, hopefully not.
No intention of letting the dealer touch my 15' Q5 (CPO'ed till 2021'), but still would be nice to know what options are out there.
 
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Big R

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Joined
Jun 28, 2016
Location
Boston
TDI
2015 Audi A3, 2015 Audi Q5
I have a 2015 Q7 3.0 TDI and have received half of the VW money and all of the Bosch. From what I'm reading, the second half ($4,776.67) of the VW money is not worth the damage they are doing to the vehicle when they "fix" it.
Perhaps...but then you'd be foregoing the warranty as well, and that would be a substantial risk and hit to the car's value.
 

DUTCH VanAtlanta

Active member
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Location
Atlanta, GA USA
TDI
2015 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI
Perhaps...but then you'd be foregoing the warranty as well, and that would be a substantial risk and hit to the car's value.
Easy enough to get it "fixed" just prior to selling or trading it. I'm not willing to let them fornicate up a vehicle I plan to drive for a while.
 
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Dr Chill

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Location
South Florida
TDI
2016 A8L TDI
I'm holding out until the bitter end, then fixing. If it is ok after the fix, I'll consider keeping it. Otherwise it's gotta go.
 

NHPA

New member
Joined
Dec 22, 2017
Location
PA
TDI
13 Touareg
emissions recall 2013 touareg tdi

I had emissions recall work done the end of November 400 miles later the check engine light came on. The scan at the dealership showed the EGR valve. The dealership said they would have to get the fault to happen so they would have to keep the car. I opted for a reset. The check engine light came back on. The dealership contacted VW and they agreed to replace the EGR valve. I picked up the car and 20 miles later the light was back on. The same code again appeared on the scan for the EGR. Dealership and VW decided on replacing the EGR cooler. The part is not available in this country and must be brought in from Germany. The dealership said this may take up to 3 weeks. They are covering all costs under the warranty and a rental car. I am assuming that I will have the rental car for the next 3 weeks while waiting for the part. I assume everything going forward will be trial and error in repairing the car. It appears that even the scanners are not equipped to deal with this problem. if you haven't yet had the recall work performed I would recommend waiting. I called VW to let them know of my problem. They said they would call the dealership. I told them the dealership was not the problem and that it is VW who needs to come up with the correct fix. VW said someone would call. (I'm sitting by the phone waiting.)
 

bioburner

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
Location
Out there
TDI
02 Wagon 285k - Gone ‘10 JSW - Gone '13 Q7 145k
From a high mileage (125k), cold weather, shorter trip, traction limited perspective...
It was back at the dealer after a P2200 fault code (this code was originally stored before the ECR was done) caused CEL. Sensor 1 Bank 1 NOX sensor replaced under the extended warranty.
Handed calculated mpg of 19.1 this tank running around town. I don’t have any complaints about how it drives. Didn’t mind spending $1k on a new set of Hakkapeliitta 9 studded tires after receiving the second half of the settlement money.
 

dyehead

Active member
Joined
May 11, 2017
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
2013 Q7 Prestige
Some things I've observed over the last week, I specifically tried to test various things a little more scientifically until I can find a local AWD Dyno place:


MPG 50/50 highway/street is currently under 19. Street only is about 16. No highway-only data yet. Previously was near 24, if I babied it when driving I could achieve 26 when 50/50. Highway only, I'd get 28-30.

Driving in "D"

Having the AC on or not makes a big difference in my power (was not noticable before the fix). I notice more hesitation from the transmission when I have the AC on (doesn't matter what temperature, but for reference it was set to 70). I live in So. Cal so that means 10 months out of the year the AC is on. Going uphill also seems to have a dramatic effect on this. Was not an issue before, making me believe torque has been reduced.

Driving in "S"

Seems to accelerate/respond closer to what "D" used to be, with the added downside being higher shift values and lower MPG. Unsustainable to drive full time in S, MPG drastically reduced. I have been temporarily putting it in S at stop lights and then putting it back in D when hitting 40+MPH. If the car accelerated from 0-40 like it does in S then reverted to D automatically I would be perfectly happy.

Driving it in M, I notice that in first gear the car will immediately respond with little to no lag or hesitation. I can manually then drive as I would have expected it to be, as if it were pre-fix. This is the biggest smoking gun that I have found so far. The fact that I can accelerate immediately with no hesitation when I'm controlling the transmission tells me that they have deliberately changed the patterns when in D.

Overall I believe they now intend you to drive the car like a grandmother post-fix. I didn't buy an Audi because I wanted to drive like this. If I wanted a slow heavy SUV I would have bought an American car.

Is there anyone in or near the LA area who has not gotten the fix is willing to get together and do some side-by-side testing, take their vehicle to whichever AWD dyno place I find so we can get actual numbers?

The Lawyer I spoke to from the settlement said that it would be a big help if I were to get some sort of actual figures/numbers instead of things that are subjective. Having video evidence, Dyno results etc would make a lot of difference. I am really disappointed that the Lawyers didn't demand to see the vehicles tested as a part of the settlement to make sure the plaintiffs were protected from this kind of thing.
 
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Dpthomas

Active member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Location
SE Pennsylvania
TDI
2013 Touareg TDI Sport
13 Treg w emissions fix

Disappointing performance post-fix. Loss of torque, loss of down hill engine braking and unfamiliar shifting patterns with occasional hiccups where transmission seems confused. Around town mileage has taken a dip of 3-4 mpg - haven't taken any road trips to measure highway mpg. Taking the repair money and trading it ASAP. It was a great vehicle before the fix. Not so much now.
 

dyehead

Active member
Joined
May 11, 2017
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
2013 Q7 Prestige
What you are describing is the same thing I experience. I haven't heard many Touareg customers complaining though. Interesting.
 

Mythdoc

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Location
Tennessee
TDI
2011 Touareg, 2015 Q5, 2015 Golf
I just hand calculated a 29.4 mpg tank in my Q5 — lowest ever in 17 tanks by over 3mpg. My drive today was 100% interstate highway. The car has not yet had the fix, yet, of course. The reason? Drove all day north and northwest into the teeth of the cold front bearing down from Canada. All my readings had already been about 2.5 mpg lower from summer to winter. I’m not saying that owners here are not experiencing what they say they are, but I am saying that plenty of factors can affect fuel mileage.

For all we know, the software update in the fix may have corrected or reduced the rather large (10%+) overestimation of the on board computer from before the fix.
 

dyehead

Active member
Joined
May 11, 2017
Location
Los Angeles
TDI
2013 Q7 Prestige
I realize you're playing devil's advocate, but we don't get that kind of temperature swing here in Southern CA.

Fact is, I'm now driving with the AC off where it's normally on, and am getting 5+mpg less than I used to.

I'll hand calculate mileage over my next 2 tanks. I've been going by the numbers on the OBC. Most I ever got was 640 miles on a single tank on a road trip. Average for me was between 520 and 550 miles per tank depending on how I drove. When I would fill up, it would say 520-550 miles til empty, this time from full it said 440.

You suggesting that "oh well maybe the OBC is more accurate now" is pretty insulting. You continually suggest that folks with complaints (mind you I'm not a speculator) have nothing to complain about. Nothing was mentioned in any paperwork, Audi has not provided any details as to what was done. There were no notes that listed "fixed OBC estimated MPG calculations." What they handed me was a document listing reduced MPG to 19/27 (I believe originally it was 19/28), and that's it.

Your vehicle isn't even close to the same weight class as mine (1100 lbs lighter with a similar engine), I wouldn't expect you to be experiencing the same issues I am. Please have the decency to refrain from insinuating that others are imagining things (which I certainly am taking it as).
 

911c4fan

Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Location
schenectady, NY
TDI
2014 A6, 2016 A7, 2014A8L, 2014Q5, 2016Q5, 2013 Q7, 2014Q7, 2014Q7, 2013Q7, 2015 Q5, 2016 Q5 Prestige S line
I realize you're playing devil's advocate, but we don't get that kind of temperature swing here in Southern CA.
Fact is, I'm now driving with the AC off where it's normally on, and am getting 5+mpg less than I used to.
I'll hand calculate mileage over my next 2 tanks. I've been going by the numbers on the OBC. Most I ever got was 640 miles on a single tank on a road trip. Average for me was between 520 and 550 miles per tank depending on how I drove. When I would fill up, it would say 520-550 miles til empty, this time from full it said 440.
You suggesting that "oh well maybe the OBC is more accurate now" is pretty insulting. You continually suggest that folks with complaints (mind you I'm not a speculator) have nothing to complain about. Nothing was mentioned in any paperwork, Audi has not provided any details as to what was done. There were no notes that listed "fixed OBC estimated MPG calculations." What they handed me was a document listing reduced MPG to 19/27 (I believe originally it was 19/28), and that's it.
Your vehicle isn't even close to the same weight class as mine (1100 lbs lighter with a similar engine), I wouldn't expect you to be experiencing the same issues I am. Please have the decency to refrain from insinuating that others are imagining things (which I certainly am taking it as).
The mere fact that anyone would attempt to draw a distinction between a speculator and an original owner or single car owner as a daily driver is patently absurd. Is the date you became an owner somehow relevant to one's reliance upon the expectation that your attorney performs well? It could easily be argued that an owner prior to the published settlement in no way relied upon its adequacy as a remedy, while a speculator purchased knowing the prior 2 liter settlement was fairly reached and those owners sufficiently and adequately represented by counsel.

The job performed by the attorneys in the three liter matter was pathetic. When a consumer is misled in a material way, the settlement must require a buyback option, PERIOD. Any risk of deterioration of performance or market value should not be placed upon the consumer, but rather upon the party that occasioned the possibility of the diminution. The amount of secrecy surrounding the repair, the lack of objective and published test numbers, the vague and carefully worded disclosure of the effect of the repair; it all points to the fact the plaintiffs counsel was clueless in this settlement. Look at this sentence:

"The Lawyer I spoke to from the settlement said that it would be a big help if I were to get some sort of actual figures/numbers instead of things that are subjective."

REALLY? No %^$#! You should call the attorney back and tell him/her that he/she is absolutely right, it would be a big help. The fact that they just came to this most obvious conclusion AFTER settling the case and selling out all the three liter owners is inexcusable. A fair settlement would have included a buy back option at the discretion of the owner (after the repair experience). The owner would have to make the decision in say 45 or 60 days post repair. The repair compensation should have been set at a number where most owners would have had to struggle with the decision. This number, strangely enough, had already been determined. It is the difference between the buy back number (found in the settlement), and the current market value on the date of decision. This number is a much more accurate measure of appropriate compensation for the owners, and I would not be questioning the professional competency of the attorneys.

Do the math yourself, and you will see it is more fair and makes sense. You would also struggle with the decision, as the compliance repair compensation would adequately address your damage. Take your current market value and subtract it from the buy back option in the chart, and you will have a number about twice what you received as a result of complying with the repair. THAT IS the number owners should have received if they kept the car, post fix. I would hazard a guess most would keep them. Then you would have been compensated for any loss of market value and/or performance and you (the consumer) could decide for yourself if it was adequate and appropriate.

The additional and appropriate amount would have cost maybe $10,000 more per car on about the 50,000 or so three liters in circulation. Is 500 million dollars a big deal on top of the total settlement costs? Not really, perhaps half went to our "court appointed attorneys" and VAG kept the other half it saved.
 

Mythdoc

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Location
Tennessee
TDI
2011 Touareg, 2015 Q5, 2015 Golf
I’m really bored with the so-called “plight of the speculators,” and whether they are fairly or unfairly treated, and whether they are or are not whining. Who cares anymore?

To speak to the subject of the thread, a few of us keep asking for hard data and we keep hearing “my car doesn’t run as good anymore,” or, at best, a few hand calculated tanks. My post was merely to show the effect of a headwind on one tank of fuel, not to call anyone a liar. I have mentioned that I came into diesel with the Touareg. The other forum where people have posted for years, where I know guys since 2011, people are overwhelmingly saying “no difference after engine warmup, other than engine braking removed.” Some of the posters here appear to have just arrived and others appear not to know how to properly hand calculate. Maybe you guys are on to something, though. Maybe the fix sucks or maybe it sucks for certain models, or maybe it sucks when certain $h1tty dealers don’t know what they are doing. Whatever the case is, you guys are going to need to document the problem better. You can’t whine and you can’t pick up the phone to Cabraser or anyone else and expect them to be on top of it for you. Lawyers only do that on tv shows.

Get data, get facts, and if necessary, get what was promised to you. But first. Get good data.
 

bird67

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Location
Snowy North
TDI
2014 Touareg TDI*
I’m really bored with the so-called “plight of the speculators,” and whether they are fairly or unfairly treated, and whether they are or are not whining. Who cares anymore?
To speak to the subject of the thread, a few of us keep asking for hard data and we keep hearing “my car doesn’t run as good anymore,” or, at best, a few hand calculated tanks. My post was merely to show the effect of a headwind on one tank of fuel, not to call anyone a liar. I have mentioned that I came into diesel with the Touareg. The other forum where people have posted for years, where I know guys since 2011, people are overwhelmingly saying “no difference after engine warmup, other than engine braking removed.” Some of the posters here appear to have just arrived and others appear not to know how to properly hand calculate. Maybe you guys are on to something, though. Maybe the fix sucks or maybe it sucks for certain models, or maybe it sucks when certain $h1tty dealers don’t know what they are doing. Whatever the case is, you guys are going to need to document the problem better. You can’t whine and you can’t pick up the phone to Cabraser or anyone else and expect them to be on top of it for you. Lawyers only do that on tv shows.
Get data, get facts, and if necessary, get what was promised to you. But first. Get good data.
Mythdoc, we hear you’re “really bored” with the “plight of the speculators.” But in the spirit of the after-Festivus glow and Airing of Grievances, some of us are “really bored” with your condescending dismissal of reports post-“fix” of diminished performance.

We get it. Some aspects of post-“fix” performance require hand- rather than computer-calculated data. You’ve made that point, ad nauseum. You like data. Good for you.

But not every post-“fix” concern can be readily calculated. Most of us do not own or have access to dynamometers and computer scanners and other sophisticated tools for vehicle analysis. And isn’t that the point? We had lawyers who were supposed to (spend the money to) get access to that equipment, so they didn’t have to take VAG/CARB/EPA’s word on what post-“fix” performance would be like. When CARB/EPA collected a multi-$billion fine directly from VW in 2017, many of us were concerned, that the tacit agreement is that 60,000 3.0s would be allowed a “fix” rather than a buy-back. Since our class counsel was relying 100% on CARB/EPA, rather than providing independent engineering analysis for its $millions in fees, we were screwed. We consumers can’t prove it but it sure looks like it.

So pardon those of us who don’t share your sunny belief that all is well, or that if you can’t measure the effects scientifically your driving impressions is fully invalid.

For the rest of you, please ignore Mythdoc’s condescension. In one respect he is right - hand-calculated MPG is more reliable than that reported by the OBC. But some of us are interested in hearing how your post-“fix” 3.0 behaves, even if you don’t have access to specialized equipment to verify it. Despite what Mythdoc says, it is untrue that owners are “overwhelmingly” finding no difference post-fix. Some are, some aren’t, and hearing your experiences - pro and con- are helpful in myriad ways.

Airing of Grievances over. On to Feats of Strength.
 
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Mythdoc

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Location
Tennessee
TDI
2011 Touareg, 2015 Q5, 2015 Golf
Most of us do not own or have access to dynamometers and computer scanners and other sophisticated tools for vehicle analysis.
Folks here do have access to these tools. If none are handy, find someone else. If you get proof, then go to the media.

That is my main point. Who cares whether I believe you? Get better facts, and then people who matter will.
 

911c4fan

Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Location
schenectady, NY
TDI
2014 A6, 2016 A7, 2014A8L, 2014Q5, 2016Q5, 2013 Q7, 2014Q7, 2014Q7, 2013Q7, 2015 Q5, 2016 Q5 Prestige S line
Folks here do have access to these tools. If none are handy, find someone else. If you get proof, then go to the media.
That is my main point. Who cares whether I believe you? Get better facts, and then people who matter will.
I am kind of bored with people that don't know what they are talking about when it comes to a poorly negotiated settlement.

Why is it that Bird67 has the burden of proof of producing the evidence? Do you honestly believe that this burden should be on individual owners to prove VAG is not fibbing again? Why didn't they publish their own numbers on the fix, they created the problem. They have access and resources to test and document. If the fix is valid and NOT creating the problems some members are experiencing, why don't they show us their empirical evidence?

"....you can’t pick up the phone to Cabraser or anyone else and expect them to be on top of it for you..."

Are you joking Mythdoc? You honestly didn't expect the lead plaintiffs attorney to demand empirical evidence as a condition to the settlement? Hell, you want Bird67 to go and spend more money doing it himself, but you don't think she should have required it? No one should be guessing about anything. VAG's position should have been documented. The performance parameters are so vague in the documents that it will be difficult to prove their is a statistical deviation anyway. Deviation from what? Even if the deviation is proven to be much more dramatic than disclosed, you get $500???? Why would they agree to that? How many tests will that cover. You want Bird67 to spend a thousand dollars to prove VAG should now give him the %500 they agreed to IF he can prove as substantial reduction in performance. Come on, really?

bird67 - last month someone was thinking maybe climate had something to do with the cars that are feel substantially neutered. Maybe it correlates to urban driving? Mine were fine because I live in the suburbs and rarely get city driving situations. When you think of it, its a minority of owners that do a lot of real city driving. Maybe the shift points and/or hesitation is way more noticiable in traffic and city driving?
 
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