Exhaust pipe not 100% white glove clean... Cracked DPF?

Folks:

2010 CJAA engine 90k on the clock.... After reading other peoples stories of cracked DPFs I took a paper towel and found a very light amount of black inside the pipes. Wiped it down and started worrying (this forum does that to me) About every other week, I stick my finger in the pipes and continue to find a very light black colored coating on my finger or paper towel. Not a lot by any means. Also, it is not by any means super sooty.

Should I start setting $$$ aside for a new DPF and EGR filter ? Not going to delete due to resale in the next year or so and biannual emmissions inspection

The tailpipe on my passat is still clean as new with 80k on it. I wouldn't worry untill you get a mil light on.

It should be clean, your DPF is passing some soot. I'd not worry about it right now, but eventually your EGR pipe will clog up and the MIL will come on for insufficient EGR flow.

I have TWO 2010s here today with that same problem.

I'd also want to make sure the newest software is in the car.

Oilhammer:

Figured you would see more of these then anyone and know!


Got the software update last week... Do you think there is a connection to the DPF?

In the back of my head I wondered if the change in the regen's was due to cracknig DPFs..

Funny you should mention that.

same here (with the soot)


Oilhammer,

I found rebuilt 2010 plus DPF part (for the 2010 and later)

1K0254708GX

is there a different part for the NOX storage cat other than the

1K0-254-401-T

I have the same problem..as a matter of fact, just the other week I cleaned my car, including the chrome tailpipe....and now there is black soot on the outside of it. I have the check engine light (P0401 code) - took it to the dealer since I'm at 70k miles - and after testing, they said the DPF tested fine, that its a cracked EGR Pipe. They said they did the test where they take it apart and swipe their finger - there was no soot. And that soot inside the tailpipe is normal.

I'm not sure if I should be calling VW to argue or not. Or just pony up 2.5k to have the DPF / Stage 2 done.

This is what the tailpipes of a car with a cracked DPF look like:



This is what the tailpipes of a car with a healthy DPF look like:



Even with my crappy cell phone pics, just taken (the two cars are parked side by side, right now, same lighting, etc.) you can clearly see the difference.

Thanks

so for a 2009, how much in parts do you think it will cost to fix a cracked DPF?

Mike

meerschm said:

Thanks

so for a 2009, how much in parts do you think it will cost to fix a cracked DPF?

Mike

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$4-5k, depending on labor charges, etc.

I would try and find a used setup from a 2010+. Even if THAT DPF is no good, at least you can just buy that part ($1100 or so) and not the rest of the stupid expensive stuff.

2009s got a real suck deal on that front. Once again why I would never want the first-year of anything. Makes the goofy '99.5 ALH cars seem almost trivial with their strangeness.

would be nice if you could buy a pipe to VW flange and have a joint put in the middle, then use the original NOX cat with a rebuilt 2010 plus DPF/DOC cat.

What's a "paper tile"? You meaning paper towel?

oilhammer said:

........

2009s got a real suck deal on that front. Once again why I would never want the first-year of anything. ....

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Gee, it seemed like such a good idea at the time,

live and learn, I guess....

DRbillZ said:

What's a "paper tile"? You meaning paper towel?

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That is my West Virginia accent combined with me being lazy and using text to speech and not reading what was on the screen before submitting. Corrected !! :


So below are some photos of my tailpipe taken with my camera phone. Guilty of a cracked DPF????

What is haunting me is seeing an uptick in people having this problem, and the most recent ECM update along with a reference to an ECM update in the TSB. This makes me think VW has some ownership of the problem. If they have a warranty extension or some sort of campaign ... Who knows... Not a happy camper though..

I THINK (unless anyone has any other thoughts) my plan is now to wait and not worry about it (since I can't do anything to correct it) (i'm 12,000 miles over the 80k emissions warranty) and then when it does fail, either sacrifice an EGR filter and get another (lets say) 12 months worth of driving out of it or bite the bullet and fix it right.

Oilhammer: Before you started replacing DPFs with EGR filters how many miles before customers came back?


What is the official testing to determine if its a cracked DPF in the TSB? Is it to inspect the exhaust or is there a more formal way of checking? Does anyone have the TSB ? I saw it floating around once somewhere.


Fingers crossed that VW will do the right thing and offer some sort of warranty extension.

The above pictures are of my "new" 2013 JSW. I might be a little more sensitive since I also had a 2009 JSW that had a cracked DPF that I paid to take care of.
What would it take for VW to step up to a cracked DPF? anyone know?

redbarron55 said:

The above pictures are of my "new" 2013 JSW. I might be a little more sensitive since I also had a 2009 JSW that had a cracked DPF that I paid to take care of.
What would it take for VW to step up to a cracked DPF? anyone know?

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Redbarron:

Looks exactly like mine.. Maybe a bit more soot then mine... How many miles on your '13?

Guys, if you are not having any EGR flow issues, I'd not worry too much about it. I think your pipes look pretty clean, to be honest.

The ones I see are sooty inside, like a pre-CR TDI's exhaust. They'll even get some soot stuck to the back bumper cover. And when you take the EGR filter tube off, it will be coated inside, and you can't blow through it.

When I get a CR TDI in with an MIL on, one of the first "quick check" things I do is look at the tailpipe. If it is sooty, it will give me a heads up on what I am likely to find once I get the scan tool plugged in. I don't bother taking the EGR tube loose to check anymore, since a P0401 insufficient EGR flow DTC and a sooty tailpipe already tell me what I need to know. However, when (if) I sell the job, I do verify upon disassembly that the tube is in fact clogged (and they always are).

I probably replaced a half dozen tubes before I realized (via the help of the TSB) what was actually happening, that the clogged tube was a symptom of a cracked DPF, and not the root cause of the EGR flow problem. A couple did come back, in about 15k miles, with the same problem. Never heard from the others again, but it is possible they parted ways with the car. Which, sadly, is quite common with these after a repair.

My 2011 CJAA 251,677 miles. Unwiped.

My 2013 JSW has 36,000 miles on it. I bought it "new" with 28,000 miles a month ago.

I found a source for a DPF and NOX cat (with bonus EGR filter) from a later model with around 2k miles on it. (seems they "fell off" at a known location in PA.)

I will keep in stock for the eventual EGR filter clog and MIL indication.

Which VCDS measuring blocks can be used to verify reduced EGR flow that trigger the error?

Great, a new thing for my obsessive disorder to work with!! ;-)

Don't have a pic yet, but mine looks about squarely in between the good one and the bad one...
Interesting thing is, I seem to remember always having the faintest amount of soot, thought that was the "clean" normal. Never had a warning light.

DriverJon said:

Great, a new thing for my obsessive disorder to work with!! ;-)

Don't have a pic yet, but mine looks about squarely in between the good one and the bad one...
Interesting thing is, I seem to remember always having the faintest amount of soot, thought that was the "clean" normal. Never had a warning light.

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Thats how I feel... another thing to be obsessive about!


How many miles on your clock?

Almost up to 85k...

Well, good to hear from Oilhammer, that a leeeeetle bit of soot can be normal. That one "clean" shot was so clean it got me worrying. I'll ramp it down now...

Oilhammer, have you ever heard a change in exhaust note associated with a DPF crack? Lately I've noticed a bit of resonance or roar, up around 2200-2500, not sure if it might apply to situations like these. Or is it more likely a loose flange or something like that? Any idea of what it more likely would be?

Just a thought. VW must have expected some particulates in some cases to come out of the DPF, and go into the EGR, otherwise, they would not have put a filter in the path.

http://idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=4032

looks like it is designed to contain some amount of stuff.

Here's mine at 170k miles. Definitely not white-glove clean. It's finger-blackening, but a thin layer.

That's about how my tail pipe looks at 187K

X2 on Brian's comments; if it doesn't crack and plug the LP EGR circuit, don't sweat it. The DPF is really cool, and it keeps soot to a minimum, but it doesn't trap everything.

And it would stand to reason that eventually, some start up crap is going to find its way to the tailpipes. The DPF can't catch everything forever as the engine wears.

The ones with a clogged EGR tube have tailpipes that look like PD and VE cars, maybe even worse.

so is it possible to take the EGR filter off and clean it or do you need to buy a new one?

This is what happens when your DPF gets cracked.

Pipes were clean up until 41k miles and out of nowhere i got P2002 code which refers to DPF differencial pressure sensor inssurficient flow at the DPF.
Sounds like the DPF is bust so it will be deleted.





This happened all in one day over 60mile drive and a very long REGEN. The fact that there is soot in the pipe means soot is not being trapped in the DPF so its broke.

frugality said:

Here's mine at 170k miles. Definitely not white-glove clean. It's finger-blackening, but a thin layer.

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Frugality, I am at 120k and my tailpipes look about the same...cant imagine that the DPF will catch 100% of the soot.