Hard Start / No Start - Is your intercooler frozen? Check Here!

Small update: drove car for the past few days in temps ranging from 5*f to 28*f with both the upper and lower idparts.com grill blocks in place. (I also have the IC tsb kit , 32*f revision)

While driving to school this past friday (30mi round trip, cross country 55mph and town 30mph) I had an active regen occur (in town/city, no codes/heat issues) and had to interrupt it to make class on time but completed it on the way home.
*according to weatherunderground.com/historical, the average temp for that day at my location was 7*f, average humidity 70%, average dew pt 0*f*

Also had 60 or so highway miles in 18-22*f weather.


Just pulled the lower IC hose today after letting it thaw out in a friends garage (on a lift). Dry as a bone! I last checked it January 2nd of this year and found a little white oily pcv goo, but no water/melt ice dripped out when I disconnected it.

Back to today, I did however find quite a bit of what appeared to be raw motor oil in the pipe (passenger/cold side, it didn't pour out, but was soaked up with a paper towel when I cleaned out the female/rubber hose as well as the male/hard plastic hose). Since new the car hasn't burned a drop (per the dipstick measurement) during 10k oci's. Despite seeing some residual in the pipes today, the level checked out perfect per the dipstick.

I'd imagine if there is no/less opportunity for lp-egr gasses to condensate and freeze/thaw in the hoses (i.e. grille blocks working effectively), the normal pcv oil blowby mix would look like and accumulate as normal black oil, not a white/gold water/oil mix as some (myself earlier in January) found.

Comments?

It's not really pcv blowby. It's oil finding its way past the turbo bearings. Welcome to the turbo life. The CBEA/CJAA have a very unique pcv filtration system where a catch can is made pointless. It uses a evap and condensation filtration method while the oil is gassing it goes through the camshaft cover it passes through some filters. So it's not pcv oil blow by. Even though the camshaft cover has a tube that goes to the intake port on the turbo. Those gasses are filtered to have no oil. I've read the VW self study on the engines.


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Samcar222 said:

Back to today, I did however find quite a bit of what appeared to be raw motor oil in the pipe (passenger/cold side, it didn't pour out, but was soaked up with a paper towel when I cleaned out the female/rubber hose as well as the male/hard plastic hose).

Since new the car hasn't burned a drop (per the dipstick measurement) during 10k oci's. Despite seeing some residual in the pipes today, the level checked out perfect per the dipstick. Comments?

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Hard to say what it was since you are not loosing any engine oil?

By the way - perhaps unrelated to this, but I had once a black motor oil looking stuff oozing out at the base of a turbo diesel engine fuel injector. It sure looked just like motor oil and I thought the cylinder head had cracked and somehow the lube oil was leaking out.

Well, it turned out to be very small combustion chamber leak in a seal in-between the injector and the cylinder head, and I fixed it by replacing just the seal.

This is my third turbo diesel now - two of them with inter-cooler, one without and they all have collected some oil in the air inlet. My guess is it's most likely coming in with the EGR

Just to note.....2012 now with 52,000 miles. Bought in Oct 2011. First winter nothing. Winters of 2012 and 2013 I had a couple episodes of random rough starts. Obviously the problems noted here. I never had the car have to be towed or work done. While I should have by now, I've never cleaned out the I/C hoses.

At the start of this winter I placed two foam pipe insulators on the lower grill and I didn't have even a slight hiccup all winter.

I never cared much for VW's intercooler bypass. To me it's adding complications to go wrong in the future. The foam will come off next week and placed in the garage to go back on next Oct/Nov.

Two winters in on a 2013 JSW.
Hudson Valley, NY

Typical driving: Long 65mph highway drives to and from the Catskills and Adirondacks. Also to NYC. Garage stored at night in most cases

First winter: I was completely bone stock, no IC update, no winter blocks. Only once did I have an odd start. Just some stumbling quickly.

Second Winter: Added IDParts lower grill block. Flawless all winter long.

pknopp said:

At the start of this winter I placed two foam pipe insulators on the lower grill and I didn't have even a slight hiccup all winter.

I never cared much for VW's intercooler bypass. To me it's adding complications to go wrong in the future. The foam will come off next week and placed in the garage to go back on next Oct/Nov.

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I used the winter front from idparts this past winter. I had no hard starts and also the added benefit of quicker warm ups and able to keep nice and toasty even in single digits

I went to start my father's 12 Jetta today and found it had suffered a massive dose of intercooler icing. The car hadn't been run in ~2 weeks, and it's been warmer the past few days.

See the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Teyq-EdC_s

I pulled the glow plugs & cranked the engine over to purge the water out. It is possible to remove the plugs without disconnecting any fuel or coolant lines. What you see in the video isn't the first round of cranking, initially there was more water!

Nearly a liter of water drained out of the intake tubing. I drilled a 5/64" hole in the bottom of the tube and water continued to drain out as I idled the engine.

Thanks,

-J

compu_85 said:

I went to start my father's 12 Jetta today and found it had suffered a massive dose of intercooler icing. The car hadn't been run in ~2 weeks, and it's been warmer the past few days.

See the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Teyq-EdC_s

I pulled the glow plugs & cranked the engine over to purge the water out. It is possible to remove the plugs without disconnecting any fuel or coolant lines. What you see in the video isn't the first round of cranking, initially there was more water!

Nearly a liter of water drained out of the intake tubing. I drilled a 15/32" hole in the bottom of the tube and water continued to drain out as I idled the engine.

Thanks,

-J

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Best video so far of this issue!

Also, I'd link this thread in your video as well since you mentioned drilling the intake:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=431560

Good suggestion. I added it to the video.

-J

The vapor shooting out was atomized diesel fuel. Not water.


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Killabee228 said:

The vapor shooting out was atomized diesel fuel. Not water.

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No, it was water - diesel fuel doesn't evaporate quickly The fuel injectors were disconnected, and it made splash marks on the house from how far it shot.

I'm surprised that the ecu even let the engine turn over.


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compu---your post says 15/32, you should correct that so someone does not go out and drill a 1/2" hole. i have not seen that much water streaming out before, what were the weather conditions the last time the car was run, was it a long trip?

Killabee228 said:

I'm surprised that the ecu even let the engine turn over.


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Why would it stop it? That's basically the same procedure for doing a compression test.

Ohh huh....


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waltzconmigo said:

compu---your post says 15/32, you should correct that so someone does not go out and drill a 1/2" hole. i have not seen that much water streaming out before, what were the weather conditions the last time the car was run, was it a long trip?

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Thanks, I meant to say 5/64" The hole was just shy of 2mm.

The last time the car was run was above freezing and was only at idle while the oil was changed. It then sat for 2 weeks. Sometime right before the oil was changed it was driven on the highway for ~2 hours. I don't know what the weather conditions were for that drive.

-J

compu---I think you said 5/32 in the youtube video, going off what I remember seeing this morning but you may want to check that. The two hour highway drive seems to fit with ice forming in the intercooler from what I have read.

Zealous Interiors said:

I've had this happen twice now- '12 Golf TDI with 23k miles. I'm in Vermont and only drive about once or twice a week- most likely why it's happened to me so often.

I'm confused, in the first post, it sounds like VW thinks it has a 'fix', the new IC 1K0-198-803-B Cold Weather Intercooler Kit . Has anyone else had this installed, and then had it happen again? On 11/20/13, the intercooler froze on me. They said they put in the updated intercooler. Which I assume is 1K0-198-803-B Cold Weather Intercooler Kit

It just happened again! Drove fine all the way to CO, and once at 8200 ft, I parked it for 4 days. On start, it was so down on power that it wouldn't go over 25mph. Eventually a few miles later, it sputtered to a stop and couldn't idle. Dealer said the IC froze again.

If anyone has had this happen twice, what did you do? I don't want to keep the car past the warranty period if there is no true 'fix' for this... a shame because I love the car.


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Small update to what happened to my car. I called the dealer to find out that the updated intercooler they installed 2 years had a valve that needed to be updated. So they did that. Not sure if I should assume it's fixed now or not.

It's not fixed. The redesigned intercooler basically cuts back on the amount of ice that forms. You should still check the hose for moisture at every service interval.

we've had some very rainy and some just below freezing nights recently, I have had a non start issue twice in two days, both times at night. The solution both times has been to pull the glow plugs and purge out a little bit of water, glow plugs back in and with 5-10 seconds of cranking it will fire up and run normally. I have never had this problem before and now twice in a row, very frustrating.

im going to pull the lower IC hose again today and see what comes out, last time was just a few ounces of water.

sprstu said:

im going to pull the lower IC hose again today and see what comes out, last time was just a few ounces of water.

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I think that is few ounces more than what's good for the engine

That video scared me. I ran out and pulled hose...

..

..

Nothing. Hm?

Looking for the intercooler

Jim'stdi said:

Here is a picture of the intercooler system. I'm guessing you loosen the 2 clamps ( #5 in drawing) and drain there?

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Hey Jim'stdi, where did you find that parts picture? I hit a deer and I'm trying to replace everything but I connot find that type of intercooler. And that's the one I need. If you can help me out I would appreciate it. My name is Rusty and I have a 2010 Jetta TDI. I'm new to the forums, so I'm not sure if I'm going about this the right way. Thanks for your help.

I had a problem with my 2011 golf tdi this morning, not sure if it was related to the intercooler problem but I thought I'd ask here for some opinions. I went to fill up this morning, car started up fine after filling up, then the engine just shuts off as I'm pulling out of the gas station. I put my car back in park and it started fine after that, felt like it may have taken a little more to crank over but after that it ran fine on my way to work. After I got to work I turned off my car for a bit and tried starting it, started up fine and I ran it for a bit and it ran fine then. I'm not sure this is an intercooler problem or not, it's been in the 70s/80s for the past few weeks here and we haven't had any freezing nights for months so I'm not sure if the intercooler is a problem.

This issue isn't "freezing" per say. It has more to do with condensation. If conditions are high humidity with temperatures close to dew point then you *might* have a problem.

Ah thanks for the clarification, is there a way to confirm if that was the problem on my own or should I just take it to a dealer?

Pull the hoses going to the intercooler and see if you have a build-up of goop.

Dealers vary either in knowledge or willingness to share it... We had issues both winters with my wife's TDI (hard starts, sputterings, multiple long attempts to crank, etc... we were ignorant to the issue and dealer did not help... They blamed symptoms on fuel additive, diesel klean). Appalachian Diesel Works (Daniel) just installed a 2Micron drain kit from Andrew (I don't think they are available, this one is used)... Dealer claimed to check the charge tube at our final dealer service at 60,000 miles... They lied, either about checking, or about what they saw because there was significant baby poo buildup in the IC charge tube... Glad to have the drain installed (as well as Pure Flow and Contain Flow kits).

I've had the problem 5 times. I've driven between Michigan and North Carolina in 2014 and 2015, and always blamed the issues on diesel fuel. Now that I've read thru the first 109 pages of this thread, I'm convinced they didn't fix the 2014 model years since I've had most of the symptoms: dead battery / hydro lock, stumble starts, starts and then stumbles, etc.

It's now July, and I took it to the dealer (they didn't find any water or residue in the intercooler because it's 95F outside). I called VW Customer care to see if they could help me with my issue, but said unless the dealer can replicate, they can't do anything. The car now has 33,000 miles, and will be out of warranty before the next winter. Hopefully I can replicate it in the winter, and get it fixed under warranty.

^I'm in NC too... I am getting EGR/DPF delete soon and may sell my drain kit; if you are interested let me know... Have not made up my mind for sure, but with no EGR I should not need it... theoretically..

I bet there was still some gunk in the charge tube... I assume you read my post, just above yours... It was not going to cause trouble in warm weather, but there was definitely still plenty of gunk left from the cool humid weather. Unfortunately I think some dealers bend the truth!

Cheers!