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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Alternative Diesel Fuels (Biodiesel, WVO, SVO, BTL, GTL etc)

Alternative Diesel Fuels (Biodiesel, WVO, SVO, BTL, GTL etc) Discussions about alternative fuels for use in our TDI's. This includes biodiesel WVO (Waste Vegetable Oil), SVO (Straight Vegetable Oil), BTL (Biomass to Liquid), GTL (Gas to Liquids) etc. Please note the Fuel Disclaimer.

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Old March 27th, 2017, 17:29   #1
Brian O'Dell
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Default Which engine to run bio in ... ALH vs. BEW

Forgive me if this is the wrong forum but I'm just getting started in the vetting process of figuring out which Jetta wagon to buy. Based on what I've looked into I'm pretty sure it's going to be a 99-05 wagon.

Some of the members in another thread had different in put on ALH vs. BEW for running bio. Is there a short answer? If not what's the long one?

My local source is selling B100, B99.9 (is there a difference?) and B20.

Also there seems to be some opinions on what oil to use if you run Bio. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks,

Brian
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Old March 27th, 2017, 20:00   #2
Nevada_TDI
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In theory, the optimum engine to run Bio in would be the ALH as the PD motors can be a bit fussy, but I may be wrong. The only issue could likely be the due to the swelling of the seals on the pump and the hoses. When Bio-D is no longer run the seals sometimes--not always--shrink and cause leakage unless Viton seals and Bio-D friendly hoses are used. Other than that, if the fuel is good and dry, and cheap, go for it.
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Old March 28th, 2017, 06:14   #3
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I believe the only real difference between B100 and B99.9 is a tax loophole, with the B99.9 getting a tax break. The engine will obviously never notice 0.1% D2.
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Old March 28th, 2017, 08:25   #4
Brian O'Dell
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Thanks Nevada and ATC,

I was under the impression that both the ALH and BEW were bio ready. No need to change any hoses, seals, etc. I have a basic understanding of the solvency issue with bio as far as changing the filter.

I understand that bio will cost more. I'm interested to kind out the change in mpg on bio between the ALH and BEW. I less concerned about a drop in mpg than I am with killing an engine.

I guess I need to know more about the engines.

Brian
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Old March 30th, 2017, 12:06   #5
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ALH if you're not a 'hands on 'type owner. PD's are fine on bio but they suffer from other issues which are not bio related and can be a pain to deal with over a period of time. I'm aware of the PD's don't do bio and the high pressure / high temperature warnings but my own experience has been zero bio issues with my PD. Indeed VW documentation supports bio use in PD motors. http://www.pdfdrive.com/19-ltr-tdi-e...-e8034828.html
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Old April 4th, 2017, 09:39   #6
Brian O'Dell
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Thanks Mako. Wish I could buy a Polo and a Komi.

Brian
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Old April 4th, 2017, 10:42   #7
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I've run Bio in my PD off and on for the last 10 years (currently have 152K). BD is hard to get in my area so I fill up 3 - 5gal cans. When I'm using it I run B5 - B20. The only issue I had was the return lines off the engine were cracked and weeping. I'm assuming it was from the BD.

I don't have any BD now but will be making a call soon. The guy I get it from (not on the forums) has a PD and runs 100% in the summer and cuts it with Kerosene in the winter. The only thing he has done was change out the lines with Viton ones.
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Old April 4th, 2017, 13:10   #8
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Bio diesel in of itself is fine for the PD. VW released a statement many moons about about the issue with bio diesel was along the methods of filtering it. Solids could pass through the car's fuel filter, and clog up the PD injectors. Where as the older ALH engine, the ports in the injectors were larger, so solids are way more likely to pass on through without issue.

I would guess that industrial scale produced bio is filtered better than your average home brew bio.
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Old April 5th, 2017, 06:08   #9
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The guy I get it from brews at home but he has a good setup. He has a water heater, wash tank, and holding tank. The BD is filtered before it gets pumped into my cans. I've never had an issue with his BD.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 07:12   #10
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Biodiesel IS NOT suitable in a PD.

The reasons are the PD "Cooks" the Biodiesel at extreme pressure and extreme temperatures inside the Unit Injectors.

Fuel in a PD is superheated in some locations of the injector to as high as 800F.

Biodiesel breaks down rapidly at anything above 240F, this causes severe deposits, acids and corrosive formations that will DESTROY the internals of the Unit injector.

The ALH is more suitable since the injectors are not recirculating the fuel and superheating it inside the injector. The fuel passing thru the ALH injector has nearly 100% of the fuel passing thru it go to the cylinder.

DO NOT use Biodiesel in a PD engine, catastrophic damage to the injection system WILL occur.

Damage will be in the form of:
-Acid formation
-Deposits
-Varnish
-Pitting
-Erosion of high pressure sliding surfaces
-Nozzle hole erosioon
-Leaking of o-rings leading to flooding of the engine block with fuel
-Damage to the Solenoid control system on each injector
-Tandem Pump damage due to varnish and abrasion of the rotors

Non-Biodiesel injector next to a failed Biodiesel injector



Internals of the Failed injector:









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Last edited by Drivbiwire; April 6th, 2017 at 07:21.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 11:26   #11
Brian O'Dell
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Driveby,

Thanks! Are those pics from one of your engines? Have you run BIO in your 2000? You mentioned the ALH is more suitable for BIO. Does that mean there might be one that is MOST suitable?

Thank you very much for everyone's patience. If anybody thinks of any tips for running an ALH on B100 or B99.9 that haven't already been shared please fill me in.

Thanks again.

Brian
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Old April 6th, 2017, 15:00   #12
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I run bio in PD and I make my own biodiesel and have no issues. I know exactly how my fuel is made, the quality is excellant every time. The thing that kills the engines are glycerol, soap and water. If you keep your fuel free of all of that you will be fine every time. I've made thousands of gallons and driven thousands of miles and no issues.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 20:24   #13
Brian O'Dell
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Secklor,

Any advice for verification on absence of impurities in B100? I'm not going to be making my own, I'm buying it from a few local places. What kind of mileage have you been getting on your BEW using Bio? Thanks
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Old April 6th, 2017, 22:02   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secklor View Post
I run bio in PD and I make my own biodiesel and have no issues. I know exactly how my fuel is made, the quality is excellant every time. The thing that kills the engines are glycerol, soap and water. If you keep your fuel free of all of that you will be fine every time. I've made thousands of gallons and driven thousands of miles and no issues.
Its not impurities but the FUEL BREAKING DOWN UNDER HEAT.

Biodiesel CANNOT be heated beyond 240F without breaking down into some really caustic residues that destroy the engine from the inside out.

This has nothing to do with how you prep the fuel, and EVERYTHING to do with the fuel NOT BEING COMPATIBLE with the engines characteristics.

Is that clear enough?

If not, heat your best batch of Biodiesel in a pan to 600F, and report back with whats left in the pan after the stuff cooks off... After you see that, you won't ever run that crap in your engine again.
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Old April 6th, 2017, 23:19   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian O'Dell View Post
You mentioned the ALH is more suitable for BIO. Does that mean there might be one that is MOST suitable?
If you want to run bio in a VW diesel your best bet is an IDI like a 1.6TD or an AAZ. The prechamber design is a lot more suited to alternative fuels. Nozzles are comparatively cheap too.

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