Hard starting when cold, for the 10,000th time!

I did check the ground while I had the battery out and everything looked fine.

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Did you just look at them, or did you actually remove them and clean them? Corrosion can happen underneath where it can't be seen without removing the wires.

Doggie - you're listening to my endless posts!!!!

To restate what wd just said, take off the bolt, clean each of the connectors and the base, and reinstall. It does wonders in some situations. If you need me to tell you, PM me and I'll bend your ear (eyes, in this case).

Another thing to try if the mechanical advancement of the pump does not help with cold stats is to increase the glow time of the plugs. This can be done easily with a Vag-com.

Go here for instructions on how to increase your glow time.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=123304

But before you do this mod, do not rely on it to cure all your starting issues. Before making changes to an engine, make sure you are not masking another problem. Check the timing first and only if that is ok should you need to adjust the glow time. A properly timed engine should start fine without glow plug assistance if the temperatures are right. Some don't, and those are the folks that will benefit from this adaptation.

Something that I have noticed for the first time this year is that my car starts up great when cold, but takes a bit more of a crank once warmed up. I'd like to minimize the wear on my starter and glowplugs and tighten this up if I can.

Everytime I've had my car VAG-COM'd it's been right in the sweet spot for timing and my 2nd timing belt (the 80k kind, with new water pump and pulley installed at the time) is only 20k old, so I'm not thinking it's the timing.

I've had my 1 one and number 4 glowplugs replaced because they were bad, and have recently checked the others, which were in spec (Thanks PeterV).

Any suggestions?

Oh, and Drivebiwire? It's always great to see your contributions here. It's such a good example of what this site is about. It certainly encourages others to learn, and contribute as factually and helpfully as they can. It's probably why so many people make a habit of stopping by here for a good read. It's so rare of an enthusiast site to achieve this.

Thanks again,

~BeetleGo

Sounds like your battery is getting weaker, or, more likely, your starter motor is starting to go.

Beetlego - how old is your battery?

I've got a Canadian 97 Jetta TD (without the I) ... and having alot of trouble with cold starts. Actually cold no-starts.

The average morning temps have been -4 F or -20 Celcius. If the car isn't plugged in it won't start. (I assume "plugging it in" warms the coolant and circulates it, maybe - because i'm under the impression there were no block heaters made for these cars) The glow plugs last about 5-8 seconds and I get a good cranking with a very rumbling attempt at starting. I also get white smoke (from incomplete combustion i assume) while attempting to start.

I had the timing belt changed this summer. Timing wasn't checked at my request either.

I use the choke (i assume that is what that handle really is on this TD) for cold starts. Right now the car is stranded in a parking lot unable to start

So why didn't you check the timing? Sounds pretty retarded(the timing).

tadc said:

Beetlego - how old is your battery?

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I'm on my second battery, replaced in August of '03. I use a dealer supplied solar panel when I leave it parked for more than a couple of days.

If the car starts up easily the first time, you'd think that after driving it the alternater would juice it up some more, and the engine would start easier, no?

Thanks

Beetlego: Starter.

Glow plug problem

I have the same problem and have replace sensor but my glow plug still dont work. I have check for battery volt at the glow plugs connector it self and I get nothing. The relay and wiring are check also. The time the glow plugs stay on is the problem. It was 22 deg today and they come on for only 1 sec.
Lost what next???????????

i have a problem starting up my car in colder weather. i have a 2000 golf tdi and when it is cold it its very hard to star up. when and if it starts up the idel is very irratic for awhile unless a rev the engine. when the engine is warm it starts fine. i have taken it to my machanic who repaced my timing belt recently and he made sure that the timing was correct and that the glow plus were good. what else could it be?

Could be the coolant temperature sensor, the glow plug relay, maybe the glow plug harness.

the machanic made sure the glow plugs were in working order and heating up. what does the coolant temp sensor do on startup? i thought it only affected how long the glowplugs stay on. anything else it could be?

mmm

Im getting a new starter for mine now. Still to look at the sensor, gp relay, harness and check, loosen the bleed nut at the ignition pump by the injectors in case of trapped air whislt cranking, and clean all grounds. Have so far changed fuel filter, glow plugs, done a general service overall. 1998 (UK) TDi Golf 110bhp

TDI glow plug problem

I have a 2001 jetta TDI. When starting the car, the glow plug light comes on very quickly (for about 1-2 seconds) then goes off- no matter how cold or hot it is. The check engine light is not on. During the summer the car started fine, but now when the weather is colder it does not start very well. I Tried changing the temperature sensor and the glow plug relay- but that did not fix the problem. When the temperature sensor is unplugged, the glow plugs come on for about 15 seconds and the car starts fine. Has anyone run into this problem, or know how to fix it?

You can fix it by lengthening the amount of time the glow plugs come on. This can be done with a Vag-com. If you don't have one, use the Vag-com list to find someone in your area that has one and give that a try. Instructions are in my signature.

My 2001 Jetta TDI has started hard since the first day I bought it (2nd hand, private seller, 25K). Theres now 60K on it, and I've got it down to faster starting in 25F then in 75F, just by cycling the glow plugs, and especially by waiting 10 seconds after the glow plug light goes out before cranking (at colder temps). (This was definitely a good tip that I read about on here!)

Other than that, at temps in the teens, and lower, I still crank 6-8 seconds. Sometimes using the same technique at the same temp, cranking can be as short as 2 seconds (weird)...

But I've tried just about every trick in the book, starter, MAF, glow plugs/relay/harness, battery, timing, intake manifold, and she still gives me grief!

I have not replaced the coolant temp sensor which has been on my mind for awhile but never replaced as a MIL light never came on....

I was at the dealer recently explaining my problem, and heres one for you all that I have never heard: He asked if my fuel tank was ever mistakenly filled with gasoline..and that he's had a few people in who this has happened to, and the gas does something to the injection pump with the only symptom being excessive cranking, or no starting when its cold out.

He also mentioned theyre wicked expensive and he wouldn't recommend replacing unless it was a last resort...

Anyone EVER hear of this one? Not I.

Did you ever get your injection timing checked ? That could be a contributory cause as well ...

Now that you mention it, I think I have heard that before.

I would replace the coolant sensor, it's cheap and easy.

tadc said:

Now that you mention it, I think I have heard that before.

I would replace the coolant sensor, it's cheap and easy.

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I love those words.

Yes doggie, I suspect you do.

I'm sure the pump has a lot to do with some causes of long cranking starts. Either that or a cracked seal in the fuel lines somewhere. If the Thermostatic T has a bad seal, for example, then the fuel system is no longer air tight. Perhaps the fuel is slowly bleeding out of the pump back to the filter and requires a few more cranks to re-prime the pump? Perhaps an inline fuel pump to pressurize the fuel system for a second or two prior to startup can cure this problem?

scooperhsd said:

Did you ever get your injection timing checked ? That could be a contributory cause as well ...

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even if the timing is just a bit off, your car could be a royal PITA in severely cold temperatures.

my company uses exclusively diesel vehicles, and the older vehicles get all kinds of hard to start in winter. I think its a combination of old pumps, timing a bit out of whack, and thickened fuel due to temps. I hate to say it, but even if the block is toasty warm, the fuel is molasses at real cold temps....

help a girl!

okay, I admit to being complete car-retarded, but I'm trying to learn, so bear with me here! I just moved from Seattle to Montana with my TDI, so this is my first real winter deailng with it. It has been giving me a little trouble starting in the cold, but I figured that was just normal. Then I overheated on the highway, only to find that my thermostat had frozen (I think it froze open, but I can't remember now!) After letting it sit for about 30 minutes, it started up and ran just fine for the rest of the day. Until the next morning when I couldn't get it to start at all, and if I try to turn it over for too long, the oil light comes on.
The stealership first said is was my batttery- so we charged it for a couple hours, still a no go. I called again and this time they said my fuel was frozen, so I'd have to wait until the temp warmed up and then start adding a diesel additive to keep it from doing that. I didn't even attempt to start it this morning, the temperature hasn't gotten above 10 degrees here for almost 4 days! The temp is supposed to go up to 16 above, so my Dad said I should try it.
I do know that a couple months ago the stealership said my glow plug harness looked a little "tampered with." Would that be part of this? Is it really the frozen fuel? Am I stuck driving an '87 Ford truck for the next 4 months until it warms up here?
You all seem to know a lot more than I do, so I was just hoping to get some feed back from y'all. You don't have to dumb it down too much, my Dad is pretty good at this stuff, but I'm a moron!!
(PS it's a 2001 Jetta)

Mtgirl said:

okay, I admit to being complete car-retarded, but I'm trying to learn, so bear with me here! I just moved from Seattle to Montana with my TDI, so this is my first real winter deailng with it. It has been giving me a little trouble starting in the cold, but I figured that was just normal. Then I overheated on the highway, only to find that my thermostat had frozen (I think it froze open, but I can't remember now!) After letting it sit for about 30 minutes, it started up and ran just fine for the rest of the day. Until the next morning when I couldn't get it to start at all, and if I try to turn it over for too long, the oil light comes on.

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There is winter, and then there is WINTER.

When you say 'just moved', do you mean that literally as in you haven't filled up on fuel since you got there? You could have had fuel in your tank that is winterized for Seattle but not for Montana.

The stealership first said is was my batttery- so we charged it for a couple hours, still a no go. I called again and this time they said my fuel was frozen, so I'd have to wait until the temp warmed up and then start adding a diesel additive to keep it from doing that. I didn't even attempt to start it this morning, the temperature hasn't gotten above 10 degrees here for almost 4 days! The temp is supposed to go up to 16 above, so my Dad said I should try it.

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At these temperatures you really need to be in the practice of using a diesel fuel additive with every fillup. There are a couple of different brands out there - look for something that has 'anti-gel' on the label or some such (they typically have 'summer' and 'winter' blends - the winter blend has 'anti-gel' in it). Power Service or Standyne are two brands that come to mind. It shouldn't be hard to find this at a local truck stop.

It sounds like your thermostat got stuck closed (so that the coolant wasn't circulating). You might want to have that looked at if you haven't already.

I do know that a couple months ago the stealership said my glow plug harness looked a little "tampered with." Would that be part of this? Is it really the frozen fuel? Am I stuck driving an '87 Ford truck for the next 4 months until it warms up here?
You all seem to know a lot more than I do, so I was just hoping to get some feed back from y'all. You don't have to dumb it down too much, my Dad is pretty good at this stuff, but I'm a moron!!
(PS it's a 2001 Jetta)

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Probably not. If there was a problem with the glowplugs, I would think the car would have thrown a check-engine light. When you first turn the key to the on position (without starting), how long does the glowplug light come on for? When it is cold out, the light ought to be on for a couple of seconds. If it is under a second, you could have a bad sensor that is telling the car that it is warm out when it really isn't.

Sometimes in cold weather people will cycle the glow plugs a couple of times before trying to start the car. That might help.

MTgirl....

Try cycling the glow plugs....

Also, if you know a REPUTABLE mechanic, there is always the option of installing a plug-in heater. This plugs into a 110v household outlet, and keeps the engine warm in some manner (there are a few different types). This is standard equipment on larger diesel vehicles, and though a PITA and an expense, its worth looking into.

In an effort to replace my coolant temp sensor I managed to purchase the wrong one. (Mine was black not blue or green as suggested - should have gone with the green.) Anyway I cleaned the old one off with steel wool and it appears to be functioning again. It cycled the glow plugs normally at about 40 degrees where before at 10 degrees it would rarely bring them on. Anyway, in a pinch it may help to clean it off.

more from mtgirl

We charged my battery again, this time for 4 hours, and when I went to start it, it actually worked! I ran it for about 20 minutes just to finish charging it. Also, the temp did go from -20F to closer to +20F, which helped! I took it to work and back, with no problems. This morning I drove it and it did the overheating thing again, I made it home before the light came on though. I let it sit for about 7 hours, and then started it back up. It gave me a little trouble, but nothing big. We drove it around and of course it worked just fine. So here are my questions/ comments
1. I didn't JUST move here, I have put in winterized fuel, but not an additional additive- I promise I will do that tomorrow!
2. My check engine light has been on for awhile, but the stealership didn't say much about it, they said it was from my glow plug harness looking "tampered with." Obviusly it wasn't a huge issue to them, because they haven't gotten ahold of me, and this started in September.
3. Where in the heck is my thermostat? My Dad looked around a bit, but we haven't had a ton of luck.
4. The BIG QUESTION is why is the engine overheating, but no heat coming froming my vents? This happened both times it overheated. Is it a waterpump problem? Air pocket problem? How do I check the system to make sure I have enough coolant? My burp tank is normal at this point.
Do the waterpumps go bad fairly regularly, or after a certain # of miles (mines at 65k). Sorry for so much hassle. And thanks again for all your help!

If your engine is getting hot, but no heat to the interior, the water pump is one thing to suspect. However, a totally busted water pump will result in NO circulation, and the coolant in the cylinder head will come to a boil in just a few minutes of driving. The water pump is on the "front" of the engine below the diesel injector pump. Don't attempt replacement yourself without an experienced person, a detailed "how to" from this website, or the Bentley manual. The thermostat is mounted together with the water pump. Also, if there is more than about 60,000 miles on the water pump, replace it with a GOOD new pump just as a matter of prevention. Like, replace the pump every time the timing belt is renewed.

Most thermstat failures result in 100% flow to the radiator, which means the engine never gets hot in cold weather.