ESP

Iam about to purchase a 2005 Jetta GLS wagon tdi auto. The dealer is pushing ESP. It is a $280 doller option. What is this? How does it operate, and is it worth the extra money? Seems like the salesman is alittle unsure how it works also. Thanks

Of all the modern "traction aids" that are being put on vehicles these days, the VW ESP is certainly the most cost-effective. The equivalent system on other cars is usually much more expensive.

In Ohio you get enough snow and ice to make it just about mandatory!! The computer will sense when the car is mis-tracking and can get you back on course faster than you can react. (Of course, it can't override the laws of physics, but it WILL help curb potential skids.)

Get it !!

Yuri.

Electronics Stability Program - get it it is a bargain and I am sorry I didn't get it. Have Jetta 2003 wagon with 100K km and no problems so far.

When I bought Jake, ESP came with him but going in, it wasn't one of the things on my "must-have" list.

Knew exactly what I wanted but there wasn't one on the lot, so the spieler took my exact specs and promptly located 3 with my color and option level within a ~200 mile (?) radius -- only catch: all three had the ESP option.

We had negotiated a price already at that point and the spieler's take was -- "Okay, add the $280 to the negotiated price and we'll have it here in 2 days."

My comeback was --- "Well, I really didn't want ESP; offer it to me for half price and we have a deal."

....took them about 5 seconds to say -- Done! YMMV

Personally, I don't like it when the ESP system kicks in and takes over control of the stop and/or go pedals. I find it particularly disconcerting to be tooling along in cruise control and suddenly have the system kill power because you traversed a small puddle or a perhaps a slush row during a lane change on a snowy day. I have also had it kick in on dry pavement due to a semi-aggressive lane change at highway speeds.....it just ain't natural I tell ya!

Oh, also, when it does "kick-in", it indicates this with a bright, rapidly flashing yellow light on the instrument cluster --- yet another annoyance/distraction I could do without.

OTOH, under extreme conditions (read: you've lost control and are about to dive into a ditch or bisect a telephone pole), it just might come in handy. So, as a one-time, $280 insurance policy ($140 in my case), I suppose it's not too bad a deal.....still, not a "must-have" IMNSHO.

JJ

TDI wedding bells in NH

I only have 3 things to say:

Get the ESP, Get the ESP, Get the ESP!

It is an incredibly useful option worth twice it's price.

If you want to play by driving hard, it turns off with a touch of a button, so there's no reason for it to bother you.

ESP is a must have. However, if the snow gets real bad, your car, with esp, will not be any better in the snow than a non esp car.

ESP does not help you "GO"... That is the function of the EDL. (Electronic Differential Lock) and the ASR (Acceleration Skid Regulatation) These work together to cut the engine power and apply the brakes to improve traction while accellerating

ESP does not help you "STOP".... that is handled by the ABS (Antilock Braking System)

ESP is to control YAW (sideways slippage) and it is incredable how well it works. It is almost impossible to make the car slid sideways with the ESP turned on.

http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/newsarticle.html?&id=MER&doc=mer0011291
http://rb-k.bosch.de/de/start/index.html

This is teh very best link it has moving pictures.
http://www.kraftfahrzeugtechnik-heute.de/k/jsp/start/esp/index_aktion.jsp?lang=en#

If you dont pay for the ESP... then you only get the ABS.
SURPRISE: the ESP option also includes the EDR and ASR and is the best option you can get if you ever drive under slippery conditions.

ESP measures each individual wheels speed, compares it against the others and makes adjustments as necessary, in brief. By all means it is worth $280, I never see snow rather downpours and ESP makes a difference in the car handling. Goodluck Veedubing.

ESP does a heck of a lot more than measure wheelspeed. Read the webpages above.

ESP includes a steeringwheel angle sensor and YAW sensor. It "knows" where you have the wheels pointed and compares that to the direction the vehicle is moving. ESP then applies INDIVIDIAL WHEEL BRAKES just enough to stop a skid from happening. It all happens in the blink of an eye long before a human can sense the skid.

ESP is uncanny!!

The same option on MBenz, Cadallac and other vehicles is WELL OVER $1000.

ESP does a heck of a lot more than measure wheelspeed. Read the webpages above.

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As stated "in brief", I do realize what ESP does and the systems it is comprised of. Had I known you posted such information, there would have been no need for mine. Goodluck Veedubing.

ESP is great. It is uncanny the way it keeps the car under control. I would never want another car without it. We have had freezing rains a number of times already this winter and control of the car is significantly enhanced.

Bottom line if you ever sell the car it will more then get you the $280 back.

I can't say enough good things about actually using it. My wife swears by it/

One snowy day a co-worker and I test drove each other car. Mine has ESP his does not. both cars do not have snow tires. After driving both car that day I can say the ESP is worth the $280,00 before that took the ESP for granted a did not realize what a good job it really does

the ESP is worth the $280,00

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Yeah, it may even be worth a couple hundred thousand!

I installed it in my 2000 TDI and my wife's 2004 TDI

See here
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=868213&an=0&page=1#868213

and here

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=897424&an=0&page=1#897424

With the significant snow in Maryland this weekend, I'm a believer in the ESP. If had no problem going up snow covered hills that other vehicles were going sideway on. Unless you're planning to go off road, who needs 4 wheel drive?

Me TOO!!!!Love This

Hey, you guys in the blizzard, please give some feedback on how deep the snow can get before the low ground clearance causes problems.

I have the ESP on our 04 Golf. Wife said last summer the ESP jumped in and corrected for a slide on our muddy road faster than she could make the correction. But I have yet to take it out this winter for fear of running into troubles with not enough ground clearance to handle a decent snow fall. We live 3 miles down a dirt road which gets a lot of drifts. Don't want to get hung up or damage something.

Delbert

I have been out doing doughnuts and generally getting used to how this new car handles in the snow. I have to say that I’m very impressed with ESP. I found a partially difficult stretch of road. it has a steep hill and also it banks heavily to the right. If you have any kind of a wheel spin going up this will your car will also slide to the right, because of the road’s bank. Cars going up the hill often don’t make it and start sliding backwards and sideswiping 4-5 cars parallel parked on the side before they come to a stop.

I climbed the hill at about 15 MPH with the ESP light blinking the whole way up. I had the steeling wheel turned to about 10 o’clock even though I was going straight. ESP did a great job of keeping the rear wheels in line and away from the curb.

Yes, get it. I tested it in snow for the first time a couple weeks ago and I was just amazed at how much it helps. It was $430 Canadian... I would gladly have paid twice as much knowing what it does (but don't tell VW that).

Hey, you guys in the blizzard, please give some feedback on how deep the snow can get before the low ground clearance causes problems.

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Well, I didn't get out and measure it, but I think it was about an 18" drift in my drive that stopped the Jetta Wagon in its tracks! That dang belly pan acts just like a sled and lifted the front wheels right off the ground. Wasn't much I could do at that point.

I have noticed that starting off in deep snow with ESP on can sometimes make geting up to speed a real chore. I actually had it reduce power so much once I shifted into second that it stalled. I have turned it off and just feathered the throttle to get up to speed quicker in some instances.

Your experience of the tire spinning falsely triggering you to shift into second...then stalling the engine reminds me of newbies at the dragstrip.

When the light turns green they TROMP the throttle and pop the clutch.... the engine wails up to redline frying the tires. (but the vehicle is only moving about 3 MPH) They shift into second and stall the engine... losing the race.

The above is the SURE SIGN of a newbie at the track. One MUST wait for the forward motion of the vehicle to catch up" to the engine speed before shifting. Oftentimes, it is not full throttle that wins a drag race... but the driver that can sense the limits of traction and feather the throttle.

In the case of ESP on slippery surfaces, you may need to "re train" your driving habits to allow the ESP to do the work. If you were turning ESP off just so you could accellerate faster, then you were defeating the entire purpose of having ESP in the first place. ESP was telling you that the road surface was slippery and for safetys sake, should not be trying to accellerate that quickly.

I have to REALLY PUSH by TDI to get the ESP to kick in. I suspect your driving habits may be more aggressive than most folks.

BTW: Technically, it is not ESP that kicks in during accelleration. Instead, it is the Electronic Differential Lock (EDL) and Anti-Slip Regulation (ASR).

(Trivia) Were you aware that only the TDI has Engine Braking Assist (EBA) which prevents compression-induced skidding in slippery conditions.

Your experience of the tire spinning falsely triggering you to shift into second...then stalling the engine reminds me of newbies at the dragstrip.

When the light turns green they TROMP the throttle and pop the clutch.... the engine wails up to redline frying the tires. (but the vehicle is only moving about 3 MPH) They shift into second and stall the engine... losing the race.

The above is the SURE SIGN of a newbie at the track. One MUST wait for the forward motion of the vehicle to catch up" to the engine speed before shifting. Oftentimes, it is not full throttle that wins a drag race... but the driver that can sense the limits of traction and feather the throttle.

In the case of ESP on slippery surfaces, you may need to "re train" your driving habits to allow the ESP to do the work. If you were turning ESP off just so you could accellerate faster, then you were defeating the entire purpose of having ESP in the first place. ESP was telling you that the road surface was slippery and for safetys sake, should not be trying to accellerate that quickly.

I have to REALLY PUSH by TDI to get the ESP to kick in. I suspect your driving habits may be more aggressive than most folks.

BTW: Technically, it is not ESP that kicks in during accelleration. Instead, it is the Electronic Differential Lock (EDL) and Anti-Slip Regulation (ASR).

(Trivia) Were you aware that only the TDI has Engine Braking Assist (EBA) which prevents compression-induced skidding in slippery conditions.

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I've heard of EBA, but what it is exactly? What is compression-induced skidding?

I think the better way to test ESP would be to find a WIDE semi curvy stretch of rode with not too deep drop offs on the edge (just in case) and gradualy take these cruves at higher speeds to see how well your lateral stability holds up. Better yet a whopping big parking lot and drive figure eights and see how fast you can corner with and without the ESP. That's what ESP does as I understand... it stabalizes your laterall momentum to prevent you from going into a side skid, or drifting. Could be wrong...

In the case of ESP on slippery surfaces, you may need to "re train" your driving habits to allow the ESP to do the work. If you were turning ESP off just so you could accelerate faster, then you were defeating the entire purpose of having ESP in the first place. ESP was telling you that the road surface was slippery and for safetys sake, should not be trying to accellerate that quickly.
I have to REALLY PUSH by TDI to get the ESP to kick in. I suspect your driving habits may be more aggressive than most folks.

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Ok,

I have heard this more than once now about how people claim they can drive in the snow without their ESP light ever coming on. If in saying that they are referring to the ESP itself, I can believe it, but not in reference to the ASR function of it which flashes the ESP light just the same. I have some ocean front property in Arizona for sale as well...

Any vehicle will have some wheel slip upon acceleration on a snow or ice covered road. And when one is pulling out from an unplowed road onto a busy plowed highway, they are not going to be babying it. I don't need ESP to tell me the road is slippery when there is 8 inches of in front of my wheels. This is also when the engine is cold and one is trying their best not to rev the engine over 2500 RPM as well. Probably was a factor in why it stalled.

It the same with ABS. The first car I had in the snow with ABS would slip right through the intersection. I learned, regardless of everything that is preached about ABS, it did help at times to let off, not quite pumping, similar to the way I had in previous non-ABS cars. It works quite well, and it a practice I continue to use in certain conditions.

BTW: Technically, it is not ESP that kicks in during acceleration. Instead, it is the Electronic Differential Lock (EDL) and Anti-Slip Regulation (ASR).

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I am aware of this. I have owned other vehicles with traction control previous to this. VW does not distinguish this with a separate button or light, so any function of the system is simply referred to as ESP.

I won't do it again, but tires, tires, tires.

compression-induced skidding is when you "lift off" the throttle so quickly that the engine-compression can start the tires slipping.

To reduce this effect, the TDI has EBA.

I did a test of my ESP in an icy parking lot a couple weeks ago. I drove around in a tight circle and noticed that the ESP was activating to help me maintain my course. While doing this I turned off the ESP and the car immediately spun out...yep, it works!

Hello everyone...........

I am a Newbie here......I have been waiting for 5 months for my 2005 TDI/Beetle and it finally arrived today... ...however I ordered it with ESP as well as almost every other option and it did not get built with ESP ......

Should I refuse it and re-order or just accept it and be less than 100% happy with my new car......

I was very insistant when I looked it that it did not appear on the window sticker and the salesman told me it is standard now.....does the ASR still have the EDL as well as the ABS and Traction Control or not..........help I am new to the TDI's and need to know the real story.

I wanted ESP because it is my commuter car and will be driven 500+++ miles a week even in the winter.....

Thanks.

"Hey, you guys in the blizzard, please give some feedback on how deep the snow can get before the low ground clearance causes problems."

About 8" tops, probably less. The car has at best 6" of clearance. The belly pan collects snow and compacts it under the axle until you have no traction. Last month, we got a lot of snow and at 6", it was precarious at best. A lot has to do with the type of snow you encounter. We get heavy, water laden stuff that is nothing like the powdery stuff you see Subes whip through in the commercials. In my neck of the woods, anything over 6" can get you stuck. Been there, done it. It doesn't matter what tires you have either, the snow just piles up under the car.