Audi '15 A8 Is a 868-Mile-Range Tesla-Killer, and Diesel Is the Secret

heidelberger---thanks for the link, after reading the article and +/- the first 20 or so comments, i have only one observation. it is so nice to come to tdiclub where the members do not act like a bunch of pompous spoiled housewives of ??? whom do not know how to listen to one another respectfully and cite sources for their positions. for this i would like to thank Fred, the mods, and all members.

Looked over a Tesla last week. Great looking car but both of these are well out of my price range. I can replace either the JSW or Golf 4 to 5 times for what these things cost. Although, I like the idea of being able to go almost 900 miles before refueling vs 350 (from the Tesla owner I met). So, if I win the lottery and have nothing else to spend my money on, I'll get the A8L and a driver.

when i saw the title i figured audi must have a hybrid A8. not quite

if you're looking at electric or hybrid you're not likely to look at diesels

did they mention 0-60? A8 not even close

great ad for tdi but didn't persuade me one bit

both great cars but you either eat tofu or steak

Here in Vail, Colorado Tesla arranges test drives on most weekends. We had a model S for about an hour... That sedan can scoot .... Additionally, the Vail municipal garage offers several parking slots for electric charges at No Charge $. Nice enough car!

Make my MY15 A8 diesel metallic silver over black leather ........

I saw an A8 TDi in DC, Woodley park, yesterday.

Saw a new A8 TDI at the dealer yesterday. Only 105,000 + tax!

That puts it about even to the US pricing for the Tesla.

handweanie said:

when i saw the title i figured audi must have a hybrid A8. not quite......

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A8 e-Tron TDI is coming before you know it.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=419464

handweanie said:

.........

if you're looking at electric or hybrid you're not likely to look at diesels

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Why not? Most consumers don't know the savings buying TDIs.
See Eat tofu vs Steak below

handweanie said:

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did they mention 0-60? A8 not even close

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Y Tesla Model S is faster in 0-60 mph so did Toyota TS040 Hybrid, and Porsche 919 Hybrid. None can't go the Le Mans 24 Hr distance and win the race.

handweanie said:

great ad for tdi but didn't persuade me one bit....

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You'll change your mind after eating so much tofu that steak + Hacker & Pschorr Weisse Munchner Bier are much better, and fulfilling.......

handweanie said:

..........

both great cars but you either eat tofu or steak

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Money you waste buying a Tesla Model S = Eat tofu


Money you save buying an A8 TDI = Eat



&

If you can afford either one of these cars, I think you can fly to Seattle and enjoy fresh oysters and salmon, or to Maine for a lobster and scallop dinner, or Galveston for a surf and turf platter!

People that buy these cars may even have the option to choose whether to finance or pay cash! I guess what I am saying is that Tesla and A8 buyers are probably not thinking about saving money!

Many of us could pull it off with financing, but not without long term consequences to our budget. The loan could resemble a mortgage!

Whatever. Tesla is out selling all other manuf. models in it's class, combined. If they can scale up enough, the demand for a 35k Tesla will be higher than all the competition combined. They know they won't be able to keep up, that's why they released all their IP to the public domain!!!
Jaw dropping, if you really think about it.

Test drove by Matt Farah of The Smoking Tire

t=11:00.....867 miles in one tank of Diesel fuel.....that's madness......The A8 TDI is simply astonish.......36 mpg avg..........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8SlDPATHMc

The lowly Passat has that kind of range, or better for 1/4 of the price with just an 18 gallon tank. But it won't drive itself in traffic.

I have to admit, sitting in an A8 while it drives me to Galveston to see the worlds largest shrimp platter would be a nice way to spend the weekend.

dubStrom said:

The lowly Passat has that kind of range, or better for 1/4 of the price with just an 18 gallon tank......

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No comparison what so ever

A8 TDI weighs twice as the lowly - as you described - Passat and returns the same range? Simply Amazing. This just tells you and I how much engineering that Audi Designers & Engineers put toward this car.

handweanie said:

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did they mention 0-60? A8 not even close

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Wait S8 smokes Model S. S8 0-60 mph is a super car territory

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr7a9ag5IQI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf01C7Wpppg

and not convinced

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBlVh6qrJz4

kjclow said:

That puts it about even to the US pricing for the Tesla.

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If you plan to own your car for more than 3 years the Tesla wins hands down.

The number of gadgets in an Audi + number of components in a modern day combustion engine + modern day emissions controls = absolute nightmare when things start to break. $1000 a visit to Adolf the repair man. Good luck with that.

You can pick up a relatively new BMW 335d 418 lb torque, 0-60 in 4.7 seconds, 40 mpg "dream diesel machine" for $22k. Sounds good right? Until you look at the forums and all the owners biting their nails knowing they are on borrowed time when their warranties run out because the emissions systems that were bolted on after the fact to comply with Federal Regs are not stable and breaking constantly with owners cars in the shop for 3 weeks at a time and multiple visits per year.

The beauty of Tesla is that you can own this car for 100 years and it will be somewhat maintenance free except for the battery replacement every 10 years.

No combustion engine is gonna touch that kind of savings especially if you have solar panels on your roof top you'll get virtually free "gas".

I will say my 2002 Jetta Wagon TDI has been the absolute best car I have ever owned but I have been shopping for a new diesel and have even looked at the Ram Ecodiesels and 335d's and am very disappointed at how complex and unreliable these vehicles are turning out to be.

handweanie said:

when i saw the title i figured audi must have a hybrid A8. not quite

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Just considering the physics... a hybrid A8... it isn't going to get anywhere near 800 miles a tank unless that tank is like 25+ gallons.

The secret about hybrids: the electric motor and battery really don't add much of anything to the fuel economy... it is all of the other things that they do: lighter-weight, stop/start capability, yada, yada. The A8 is just too big of a car to get much improvement from being a hybrid unless you are sitting in stop/go traffic all day. This is why gasoline/electric hybrids don't make any sense because gasoline is mediocre across the board, where as a diesel/electric hybrid is a good complement because that electric motor is assisting where diesel has a marked weakness to overcome, and the diesel has the range for highway driving.

868 miles/1,397 kilometers? Kewl. I can only get my 03 Jetta TDI wagon 5 speed to go from PEI to Ontario-border area, or about 768 miles/1,235 km on a tankful of 59.7 litres/15.75 US gallons. If they will give me $5K for the trade-in, only $100,000 to go. I'll start turning in bottles and checking under the cushions for change starting tomorrow. Worth $100K for an extra 100 miles on a non-stop trip. ;-)

So, If my '05 Jetta wagon had a 21.7 gal fuel tank, I'd be getting in excess of 1100 miles per tank on the highway were I to drain it before refueling. Maybe Audi could buld something smaller with an aluminum frame and get even BETTER range with a SMALLER tank???

ANd that aluminum frame - sounds expensive to make and fix when broken. And then there's teh huge amount of energy required to extract aluminum from bauxite compared to manufacturing steel....... that is unless Audi uses soda and beer cans as its aluminum source.

I could never understand the big deal over how far one could travel on a tank of fuel, I'll still be stopping after so many miles for a pit stop.

Jim B PEI said:

868 miles/1,397 kilometers? Kewl. I can only get my 03 Jetta TDI wagon 5 speed to go from PEI to Ontario-border area, or about 768 miles/1,235 km on a tankful of 59.7 litres/15.75 US gallons. If they will give me $5K for the trade-in, only $100,000 to go.

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Remember that's 100K USD, not Canadian Peso.

Jim B PEI said:

I'll start turning in bottles and checking under the cushions for change starting tomorrow. Worth $100K for an extra 100 miles on a non-stop trip. ;-)

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So even if you SAVED at the rate of $1000.00 Per month, By the time 100 Months rolled by, the time of approx 8 years would have gone by, and the price of almost everything would have doubled. Whatever was worth $100K in 8 - 10 years would cost $200,000 so it is deemed an impossible chase.

But I admire dreaming and hopefully the price might come down for the Tesla Z (the $35K car...) that in a few years the mass build of the assembly line can push 1 out the door ever 3- 6 minutes.

Currently, the assembly cost is too high for the 'average' Jane or Joe of the 100K Tesla S.

I hope in 10 years Elon gets to turn a profit, however with the cost of battery technology still being very high (all things considered) the value is not in the all electric car.

A Hybrid has some advantage for High Stop and Go conditions, Taxi in Urban Downtown. But for the rural and fringe suburban (like where I live), a trip of 1/2 hour or 3/4 hour to the closest major centre, and the TDi beats anything around. (Check fuelly.com if you don't believe me).


Add BB Link to Text, not HTML code..OOps.

But the best part is the bypass of the fuel station when a long drive comes up, and I need to travel 3-4 hours in a stretch..

This is where the DIESEL engine shines the best.

Nah, I was kidding. Although...I HAVE a lot of bottles stacked up, and I haven't checked the couch for change for a long time--years maybe. Elon Musk has it right for the real world. I travel from PEI to Ontario regularly, and even though I don't need to stop for FUEL for the Jetta while driving the Jetta, I gotta stop for fuel for me, as in coffee and umm...et cetera...every couple of hours, so the idea of a Tesla drive 3 hours, stop for half an hour and charge, then drive for another three is just about right--except its now every two hours for me. Heck, our new Subaru Forester tells us on the infotainment screen exactly when we have been driving two hours. It BEEPS at us and flashes the statement up on the screen (hint! hint!). Diesel/hydrids would be perfect for me, because either I'm tootling around locally in the Prius C, or out on the highway in the Jetta TDI. With diesel/hybrid, then I'd only need the one car for grocery shopping and cross country travel.

handweanie said:

great ad for tdi but didn't persuade me one bit

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An 800 mile range,"rechargeable" in 5 minutes at 100,000 places nationwide vs 250 mile range,rechargable in hours at hundreds of places?

TDI wins,hands down.

Jim B PEI said:

Diesel/hydrids would be perfect for me...

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I drive in Quebec on a fairly regular basis,much of the driving is on their "Autoroutes" (10/15/55).I see more Bluetecs,"d"s and TDIs on those highways in 6 hours than I see in the Tri State area (metropolitan NYC) in a month.Assuming it's not just a Quebec thing one explanation might be because,IIRC,diesel is usually much cheaper,when compared to gasoline,up there than it is in the US.

Diesel is usually slightly less, a few cents or so, than regular in Canada. Add to that the typical 30% better efficiency of the diesel and it's a no brainier which one I would own up there.

Tesla is also working on battery swaps for traveling, too.
http://www.teslamotors.com/batteryswap

volksjaeger said:

If you plan to own your car for more than 3 years the Tesla wins hands down.
.....

The beauty of Tesla is that you can own this car for 100 years and it will be somewhat maintenance free except for the battery replacement every 10 years.

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That's a big "except" though - how much to replace the batteries, even 10 years from now, I wonder??

I don't think the Teslas have been around long enough to get a clear idea of what the long term performance really is. Sure there is no internal combustion engine to deal with but you have to wonder about how well all the electronic gadgets will hold up.

The Tesla Roadsters have been around long enough to start getting a handle on their usable life. This was the first generation, and 100,000 miles is not uncommon on them now. No appreciable degradation of battery packs/range after 6+ years and 100,000+ miles. Still, Roadster owner now have an option to upgrade to a new improved battery back if they wish, with an improved 400 (!) mile range.

Battery packs--definitely for Prius, there are all sorts of companies doing it-- are quite fixable when one 'blade' (equivalent to a 'cell' in a lead/acid) battery fails. No need to replace the whole thing.

I get diesels, and I like them a LOT. That doesn't mean I wouldn't also get a nice electric in a 1/10 of a second if I have the wherewithal and the chance. I wish my 3 vehicles that I drive were amalgamated--the 14 Subaru Forester with its 6 speed CVT and AWD, plus my 90 hp 03 ALH Jetta TDI wagon engine and seats, and my 12 Prius C Hybrid Synergy Drive. Diesel+AWD+hybrid--make that a plug-in hybrid, because I have free Level 2 charging available to me everywhere on PEI. That would make an awesome Tiguan.

I keep hearing ads on the radio for solar panels and how wonderful they are and all the money I'd save if I just plastered them all over the south side of my roof. Great idea until I start thinking about about snow on them for 4 or 5 months a year, replacing them when we have a hail storm (the roofing contractors still haven't caught up from this spring) and on and on. Electric cars may be wonderful in the South or SW, but in the northern states and Canada I have my doubts especially when it comes to "free energy".

I can't afford a $100k car no matter what it is, and with my Jetta's 600 mile range before its running on fumes I have to make a few pit stops, and no, prostate surgery doesn't help that much. Anyone who can go 8 or 9 hours without stopping is a pretty tough customer IMHO.

I have a variety of vehicles, and one is generally the best for a specific task. They include a 2011 JSW TDI DSG for the highway, a Fiat 500E electric (my commuter and errand run car), and a Pontiac Solstice Turbo convertable for playtime. Different tools for different tasks (I hate multi-tools).