NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

DogParkGuy said:

Of course it does if it completely stops running. There have been deaths attributed specifically to ignitions shutting off due to key problems while none to the failure of the HPFP.

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You made it sound like nothing happened when the engine shuts off.

Give it time, it will kill someone.

You need a talkin head to put the heat on like this :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXEVuXLwMcs

"Shooting yourself in both feet with one round of ammunition is different, it takes a special kind of dedicated, crazy brilliance, here's how VW did it" ROFL.

Stutgart said:

You need a talkin head to put the heat on like this :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXEVuXLwMcs

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Wow, just wow...that guy will not be attending any VW gatherings...

VW does seem to have lost its way of late, why not getting any of the new stuff...

With low sales numbers and the costs of getting engines/cars approved for the US, it's a wonder that VW is still here. It's a Catch 22. If they pay for the approvals and don't increase sales, they just threw a bunch of money at the EPA. On the other hand, if they don't offer more and different models, then they won't increase sales.

I can't believe VW went after the guy and threatened his job, total BS.

Nice...that Talking head CEO VWofAustralia

He's just being a good little corporate a**hole and 'denying everything' the usual response to include discrediting the effected people.

'He's a dog with the morals of a hyena'.

turbovan+tdi said:

I can't believe VW went after the guy and threatened his job, total BS.

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Time to promote them to VW of North America. They're ready for the next step in their careers.

So I was getting my ducks in a row before getting authorization to fix a customer's car and came across this. It's been out a while.

Still doesn't address how the damaged piezo crystals migrate through the system.

Jason


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damaged piezo crystals migrate through the system ?!?

I have not yet seen definitive proof of piezo crystals in the fuel system.
Can any one provide pics of piezo crystals in the fuel filter along with the metal bits?
It has been posted several times here and on other forums:
The piezo crystals are isolated from the fuel and cannot enter the fuel system, even if they rupture, shatter, crack or WHY.

I'd love someone to prove otherwise with documented evidence to dispell this myth once and for all. Maybe a good test for a Myth Busters episode?

I don't think this applies to putting damaged pieces of the piezo crystals in the fuel stream, but rather damage them where they don't work properly.
No mention of contaminating anything downstream.

Well, I will say a feel a little better knowing that VW is still paying to fix these cars. Just finished a customer's car - VW paid 100% on a 112k mile car. The failure description was basically "I fueled up, drove 10 minutes and coil light came on, turned off and back on, drove 5 minutes until car died, towed to dealership"

About a month ago we fixed a Jetta wagon with 136k miles and VW paid 100% on that one as well.

Jason


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My biggest concern now is what if this happens again? My car died with 35k on it. All was fixed by VW and paid for but what now? I have no guarantee this issue won't happen again.

Also note, I was on a road trip when this happened. Because of that, VW also paid for some of my hotel/rental car/food but only up to $500. The program is called Trip Interruption and that will kick in of you're more than 100 miles (?) or so from home when the incident occurs.

I incurred a lot more than just $500 dollars in expenses over this since I had to keep the rental 7 days, had to drive back to the dealer a week later, had to get a hotel etc. however they cap it at $500. I don't know yet if I can appeal that or not but I'm going to try.

If it was me I wouldn't complain. Their responsibility was to fix the car. The fact that they offered to cover expenses, since you were on the road, was a bonus and generous. I would be happy for what I got.

This could have happened with an older car (out of warranty) and you would have had to fork over for the repair AND expenses.

I speak from the experience of dropping an exhaust valve on I80 on the salt flats when I lived in Ca. That involved a tow, storage, Greyhound home, putting together tools and parts, driving back with mum, fixing the car at the tow yard, driving the car back home again.

Just saying, because I've been there.

Jason


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ryderse said:

My biggest concern now is what if this happens again? My car died with 35k on it. All was fixed by VW and paid for but what now? I have no guarantee this issue won't happen again.

Also note, I was on a road trip when this happened. Because of that, VW also paid for some of my hotel/rental car/food but only up to $500. The program is called Trip Interruption and that will kick in of you're more than 100 miles (?) or so from home when the incident occurs.

I incurred a lot more than just $500 dollars in expenses over this since I had to keep the rental 7 days, had to drive back to the dealer a week later, had to get a hotel etc. however they cap it at $500. I don't know yet if I can appeal that or not but I'm going to try.

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They have improved on the HPFP. When I bought my 09 I read about this potential problem with the HPFP. I bought the extended warranty to cover my butt down the road. At 63K miles I had no problems with the pump. My 2010 has 73K with no problems with the pump at this time.

ryderse said:

My biggest concern now is what if this happens again? My car died with 35k on it. All was fixed by VW and paid for but what now? I have no guarantee this issue won't happen again.

Also note, I was on a road trip when this happened. Because of that, VW also paid for some of my hotel/rental car/food but only up to $500. The program is called Trip Interruption and that will kick in of you're more than 100 miles (?) or so from home when the incident occurs.

I incurred a lot more than just $500 dollars in expenses over this since I had to keep the rental 7 days, had to drive back to the dealer a week later, had to get a hotel etc. however they cap it at $500. I don't know yet if I can appeal that or not but I'm going to try.

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I doubt that VW will budge on that $500. You should talk to your car insurance company and see if you have a trip interruption coverage through them.

MonsterTDI09 said:

They have improved on the HPFP. When I bought my 09 I read about this potential problem with the HPFP. I bought the extended warranty to cover my butt down the road. At 63K miles I had no problems with the pump. My 2010 has 73K with no problems with the pump at this time.

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Actual percentage of failures is pretty low (below 1%, depending on year). Pretty good odds, eh?

You just don't want to be part of that unfortunate group.

I Got More!!

ryderse said:

I incurred a lot more than just $500 dollars in expenses over this since I had to keep the rental 7 days, had to drive back to the dealer a week later, had to get a hotel etc. however they cap it at $500. I don't know yet if I can appeal that or not but I'm going to try.

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When my 09 JSW failed at about 7K miles because of a turbo failure when we were 300 miles from home, I complained to Customer Care about the $500 Trip Interruption limit and after some discussion I got an additional $250 Gift Card usable at any VW dealer for anything.

2010 93K miles - Car Died on Dec 24, 2014 - Pump and Injectors being Replaced by VWoA

Car died on Dec 24, luckily she could pull over safely. Finally got it towed to dealer via AAA on 12/30 after our mechanic saw metal everywhere. As of this morning Jan 5 VWoA paying for whole thing, and now that they've approved the work they're providing a loaner car. Service Manager said he's seen 5 of these before ours, and that Bosch has improved the pump.

SilverGhost said:

Well, I will say a feel a little better knowing that VW is still paying to fix these cars. Just finished a customer's car - VW paid 100% on a 112k mile car. The failure description was basically "I fueled up, drove 10 minutes and coil light came on, turned off and back on, drove 5 minutes until car died, towed to dealership"

About a month ago we fixed a Jetta wagon with 136k miles and VW paid 100% on that one as well.

Jason


Sent from my iPhone

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What are the typical costs on this repair (pump+injectors+?) these days?

Windex said:

What are the typical costs on this repair (pump+injectors+?) these days?

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i believe we are around $6500 if done at the dealer

raybo said:

Car died on Dec 24, luckily she could pull over safely. Finally got it towed to dealer via AAA on 12/30 after our mechanic saw metal everywhere. As of this morning Jan 5 VWoA paying for whole thing, and now that they've approved the work they're providing a loaner car. Service Manager said he's seen 5 of these before ours, and that Bosch has improved the pump.

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Have you reported the failure to NHTSA?

I usually don't see a final amount and even the customer copy use shows $0 due.

Cost will depend from dealer to dealer based on local cost of doing business. IE: Chicago or SF will have labor rates >$140/hr while out in the Montana dealer it is closer to $86/hr. Same goes for parts, as a larger dealer may get a better pricing from VW than a small time dealer. Also overhead in some locals will drive price of parts just like labor.

So a $6500 job at one dealer will cost $4000 at another, just based on cost associated with where the dealer is located.

Jason

kjclow said:

Have you reported the failure to NHTSA?

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It will get reported this week...

SilverGhost said:

I usually don't see a final amount and even the customer copy use shows $0 due.

Cost will depend from dealer to dealer based on local cost of doing business. IE: Chicago or SF will have labor rates >$140/hr while out in the Montana dealer it is closer to $86/hr. Same goes for parts, as a larger dealer may get a better pricing from VW than a small time dealer. Also overhead in some locals will drive price of parts just like labor.

So a $6500 job at one dealer will cost $4000 at another, just based on cost associated with where the dealer is located.

Jason

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Thanks, More interested in what parts are typically replaced, and what the average cost is these days given their replacement frequency.

I understand initial failures had all parts replaced including the tank - What are the "must replace" parts when this failure occurs now, other than pump, injectors and filter?

SilverGhost said:

I usually don't see a final amount and even the customer copy use shows $0 due.

Cost will depend from dealer to dealer based on local cost of doing business. IE: Chicago or SF will have labor rates >$140/hr while out in the Montana dealer it is closer to $86/hr. Same goes for parts, as a larger dealer may get a better pricing from VW than a small time dealer. Also overhead in some locals will drive price of parts just like labor.

So a $6500 job at one dealer will cost $4000 at another, just based on cost associated with where the dealer is located.

Jason

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Also keep in mind that the labour rate that the dealer charges to customers is not the same as the labour rate that VW pays the dealer for any warranty or good-will work. VW probably pay a flat rate for this particular job, based on their own rate and how long they think the job should take.

I suspect $6500 is what it would cost at retail in most places, but is nowhere near what VW pays the dealer.

Windex said:

Thanks, More interested in what parts are typically replaced, and what the average cost is these days given their replacement frequency.

I understand initial failures had all parts replaced including the tank - What are the "must replace" parts when this failure occurs now, other than pump, injectors and filter?

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Last year a friend of a friend bought a CR TDI with a bad HPFP. Did the work himself for around $2200 in parts.

Fuel rail, pipes between rail and injectors, pipe to HPIP, injectors, HPIP, Aux transfer pump, fuel filter housing (comes with filter), hoses between bulk head, aux pump, fuel filter, and HPIP, bleed hose from injectors. Then inspect the lift pump in the fuel tank - replace if needed.

Fuel lines are all back flushed with fresh Diesel. I used the repair guide in ElsaPro - should be the same in Bently?

The only time the fuel tank was being replaced was initially when VW wanted all the parts back to investigate the cause. Dealers may have mistaken that as recommended repair and performed later repairs the same way.

Yes, VW gets a "wholesale" discount on the price they pay to repair a car. Similar to independant shops and body shops getting wholesale price when they buy from the dealer. Think of it the same way as when there is a group buy here or over at Vortex. Buying bulk gets you a discount.

Jason

Tried a thread search to no avail. I was curious if anybody with a DPF delete has had there fuel system replaced by VW after a failure?

I would imagine that it would be an individual dealer decison. Some may do it while others would refuse repairs. One persons experience probably won't be the same as anyone elses. Some mechanics won't even touch engine repairs with emissions controls tampered with.