Wait and Pray for AWD SportWagen TDI in 2016 or Buy 2015 Outback Now?
- Thread starter LMJ
- Start date
out of my price range.
andyrooski17
Veteran Member
kai_ski
Member
I've driven Subarus for the past 10 years. If you appreciate design and driving experience, I'd wait for the 4motion GSW tsi over an Outback. I have no idea what kind of real world mileage people are getting with the cvt, but I drove a Forester XT and it definitely left me wanting.
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http://www.autoblog.com/2015/03/31/vw-golf-sportwagen-alltrack-confirmed-new-york/
Yeah, I suppose it's a little different than a sportwagen, and they haven't stated the engine options, but close enough.
Yeah, I suppose it's a little different than a sportwagen, and they haven't stated the engine options, but close enough.
South Coast Guy
Veteran Member
Don't understand the appeal of AWD. Heavier, more expensive. Only helps you to get started; doesn't help you to stop or turn.
manyVAGs
Well-known member
I have an Audi A6 a Honda Pilot and now a new Sportwagen. I am confident that with good snow tires the sportwagen will go through snow with no problem. My first car was an Austin Healey Sprite RWD and I put snows on it and went skiing all winter for a number of years here in New England and never got stuck. Good snows make all the difference.
Having said that I can really tell the difference with the Audi AWD. When I accelerate from a stop while turning in wet weather the tires never slip. And in the winter (I have snows on all 4 wheels) the AWD does help in the turns, just a slight modulation of the throttle can help the car negotiate the turn with more control.
I wonder how the Golf 4-motion system will compare. From what I have read the car will be nominally FWD and the hydraulically actuated clutch will only apply power to the rear wheels when the fronts start to slip. My wife's Honda Pilot does this and while that car is excellent in the snow, primarily due to the weight, the actuation of the rear wheels is noticable and not as seamless as the Audi which is always driving all 4 wheels. The Honda has another annoyance due to the AWD and that is the need to change the rear differential fluid where the clutch is located every 30k miles. If you do not do that the clutches will fail. The Audi AWD system is essentially maintenance free and they almost never fail.
One last comment. My Niece has a JSW TDI in Burlington VT. She has good snow tires and skiis and drives to work in the snow all winter. She has never been stuck but her dad like me was an Audi guy when she grew up so her first experience driving was with Audi's. She recently told me that she loves the JSW because it has more "Audi like" handling compared to other cars she drove but as a recent college grad is more affordable. She did say that while she never gets stuck, she misses the Audi AWD.
I would trade the TDI for more clearance and AWD, in a heartbeat. I like the TDI, but the TSI is just fine.
We're on TDIClub, so I kinda figured we were all diesel sell-outs.
I wouldn't trade the TDI for 4Motion. I've driven 20 years in northern Canada, and FWD is more than sufficient unless you're off-roading (or don't know how to drive).
S-Spinnister
Member
We get a ton of snow where I live. I've driven my MK4 Jetta TDI wagon for 11 winters, with snow tires. 99% of the time it's fine. But every winter there are a few days when the road doesn't get plowed, or a March storm with 30" of wet, heavy snow (we literally dragged it 2 miles by the front tow loop, until the tow strap broke and we had to abandon it by the road - but we also had to abandon the Jeep Cherokee with it ) and I'd give my eye teeth for AWD and more ground clearance. I liked the car enough to get the MK7 Golf TDI, but there will still be those days. Where I live, you pretty much have to make a list of your priorities, and decide what you have to give up. Around here, a large percentage of people drive Subarus and Jeeps.
One thing we noticed years ago, that Jetta put the rest to shame. Snow tires and stability control. And the weight? The first winter, we had a big Thanksgiving storm, and on the trip home there were tons of cars (including 4wd SUVs) in the ditch, and people just slipping and spinning on the highway. We buzzed by them all without ever slipping at all. So all I really want is that ground clearance.
One thing we noticed years ago, that Jetta put the rest to shame. Snow tires and stability control. And the weight? The first winter, we had a big Thanksgiving storm, and on the trip home there were tons of cars (including 4wd SUVs) in the ditch, and people just slipping and spinning on the highway. We buzzed by them all without ever slipping at all. So all I really want is that ground clearance.
I agree that snow tires and FWD is generally fine, but we do have some unpaved roads here. I prefer the TDI, but doing the math, I think the TSI is equally cost effective. If the OP is considering an Outback, it probably has to do with practicality, rather than picking a TDI because they are just plain rad.
You want to talk about "ton of snow"?
This isn't too far from where I live:
Of course, there will always be situations (like the one you described) which should effectively keep you indoors. In fact, an argument could be made that it is socially unacceptable to try to go through that 30" of wet snow -- you're just making it harder for emergency vehicles to get through, while increasing the burden as they have to check your vehicles for life.
The 1" or so of additional clearance isn't likely to be worth anything -- keeping in mind that the bottom of the car likely doesn't go up -- it just appears to. They need to raise the body so the drive shaft can have the space to get to the rear wheels.
As for AWD - sure it's nice, but if you have decent winter tires and know how to drive (and know the limitations), you're much better off that thinking "oh, I've got AWD, I can do anything" (like most Subie owners do)...
Regardless, if you're ok with a gasser, then I'm pretty sure you'll see a 4Motion Golf Sportwagon available to you next year. If you want diesel, you're out of luck.
This isn't too far from where I live:
Of course, there will always be situations (like the one you described) which should effectively keep you indoors. In fact, an argument could be made that it is socially unacceptable to try to go through that 30" of wet snow -- you're just making it harder for emergency vehicles to get through, while increasing the burden as they have to check your vehicles for life.
The 1" or so of additional clearance isn't likely to be worth anything -- keeping in mind that the bottom of the car likely doesn't go up -- it just appears to. They need to raise the body so the drive shaft can have the space to get to the rear wheels.
As for AWD - sure it's nice, but if you have decent winter tires and know how to drive (and know the limitations), you're much better off that thinking "oh, I've got AWD, I can do anything" (like most Subie owners do)...
Regardless, if you're ok with a gasser, then I'm pretty sure you'll see a 4Motion Golf Sportwagon available to you next year. If you want diesel, you're out of luck.
S-Spinnister
Member
Awesome picture! Not denying there are places that get more - we're not in the mountains or anything. I still think our ~240" yearly average (I think the record is 396?) is more than most people see. I've actually seen similar pictures from around here, from back in the days when they didn't have the equipment they have now.
As far as acting in a socially unacceptable manner goes, I need to clarify. I was just trying to get home from work. It didn't start until the middle of the day, and then they pulled the plows, which almost never happens - the storm wasn't predicted the way it went down. Also - I didn't just leave it in the middle of the road or anything - shoveled out an area and got over as far as possible. I live about 2 miles down a gravel road, and it hadn't been plowed all day. My only other option would have been to turn around and drive 10 miles back to work through the storm.
As far as acting in a socially unacceptable manner goes, I need to clarify. I was just trying to get home from work. It didn't start until the middle of the day, and then they pulled the plows, which almost never happens - the storm wasn't predicted the way it went down. Also - I didn't just leave it in the middle of the road or anything - shoveled out an area and got over as far as possible. I live about 2 miles down a gravel road, and it hadn't been plowed all day. My only other option would have been to turn around and drive 10 miles back to work through the storm.
mheat
Veteran Member
Ditto. 42 years on 7 miles of hilly gravel road in snow country - would only get 4wd if I had a super steep driveway with no other alternative.We're on TDIClub, so I kinda figured we were all diesel sell-outs.
I wouldn't trade the TDI for 4Motion. I've driven 20 years in northern Canada, and FWD is more than sufficient unless you're off-roading (or don't know how to drive).
TDIwagon17
Member
10 years of living in the snowy midwest and there was a rarely a situation where my FWD Nissan Maxima had difficulties driving in snow vs. my significant others AWD (Subaru Forester). The only time I was jealous of him was when I was stopped on an incline. I just got my TDI sports wagon (here in TX) but am moving back to the NE later this summer so I'm excited to see how it handles the NE winters! I think the best investment in a vehicle for winter driving (as others have said) is a good set of winter tires.
I wouldn't advocate awd and more clearance for snow only. My preference for it is off road use, although I may just find a beater truck. That said, awd is more fun in the snow. Cars do scrub a little speed in turns if you don't give it a little throttle. Awd does make it easier to hold speed through a turn. That said, my TDI will easily stay ahead of an SUV on Berthoud Pass in the winter.
Mike_04GolfTDI
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2003
- Location
- Richmond, BC, Canada
- TDI
- Mine: 2019 Golf R DSG, Wife's: 2015 Golf Comfortline TDI
Sometimes getting started is all that matters. For example, when there's a mini-van beside you that wants to floor it, get ahead of you, and then slow you down for the next 100 miles.
It's better if you can just leave the goof in your rear view mirror and never see it again. AWD to the rescue.
k^2
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2013
- Location
- MI
- TDI
- 2010 Jetta Sportwagen DSG - Sold back to VW. Replaced with Sportwagen 2.5 GAS
So do they use the AdBlue in Europe or not? There is a discussion in another thread about banninig diesels in Britain because they emit too much NOx. If a 4Motion TDI has been designed for Europe means that they dont us adblue.
gmcjetpilot
Veteran Member
Subaru has a Diesel.... gave up on that coming to NA... but a Subaru Diesel would be awesome...