2012 & 2013 Passat Alignment Discussion

FormerOwner said:

Maybe the Passat is a Republican by nature since it pulls to the RIGHT. <Lord, I'm sorry, I apologize...> My Larry the Cable Guy moment...!!!

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Maybe it pulled right to avoid the fiscal cliff around the corner! I could not help myself...hehe

Anyone consider that in the US or North America for that matter where driver sits on left of car and drives on the right the alignment should pull to the right slightly because of the risk of falling asleep, cardiac arrest or loosing the ability to be conscious you go off the shoulder of the road vs going to the left head on into traffic?

".....the TDI was an amazing engine, he went on and on and on and on and on (and on) about how the Passat veers the the right and that no one can figure out WTH is going on. To the point that engineers are unbolting the frame and there is a loud 'pop' yet they still can't fix it."

This is a load of crap! TOTAL!

Whatever it is, of COURSE it can be fixed! They've been fixing such stuff since before I was born (1948) and they're still doing it...when it crops up. Ask this genius if Toyota has EVER had to do any such thing. (Answer: Yes, they have. And they're still doing it from time-to-time...as is every other manufacturer of every product you own or are considering owning. Until manufacturing is PERFECTED, it will always be thus.)

You want to buy a perfectly prepared car? (I do!) I've heard they're selling them on Mars. In my world (and yours!) stuff happens. A good dealer will make it right.

A 400 mile trip this weekend puts my 2012 SE DSG over 5,000 miles, with no problems with the steering or the car. I did have an issue with the Hankooks that I spent $800 to fix (with Michelin MXV4s), but the car itself has been excellent.

VW corporate has finally figured out what alignment specs to use to fix this. My car was re-aligned last week and finally tracks straight. Hopefully your dealer can get ahold of those numbers.

Scottie3000 said:

VW corporate has finally figured out what alignment specs to use to fix this. My car was re-aligned last week and finally tracks straight. Hopefully your dealer can get ahold of those numbers.

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They must not have gotten the new specs to VW of Clear Lake. I bought my 13 Passat three weeks ago and it pulled a good amount to the right. I tried to get a alignment and they tried to give me the all VWs do that line but I persisted and they told me two things.

The right rear toe was out and they fixed that. BUT the front right caster is out and they CANNOT fix that. The center spec should be 7.47 degrees which the left side is. However the right side is 7.24 degrees when the acceptable limit is 7.25 to 8.25 degrees.

Their answer was its not adjustable I must have hit a pot hole, its a non-tire wear item and the car drives fine.

I can tell you have several 200 mile trips it pulls to the right to the point your arm gets tired.

Honestly I would believe the guy and here is why. Just because there may be a lot of Passats with the problem, how many people realize its a problem especially after the snow job the dealer lays on you.

To me the caster error is the big issue because the vehicle will pull to the tire with less caster.

My wifes Passat has the same issue. It pulls to the right at hiway speeds. It's not enough for her to notice but it drives me crazy. It's her car so she's not planning to have it addressed until it goes in for first service.

Aligment issues are addressed, ive read that the passat TDI engine runs a lot lower pressures which should reduce HPFP issues. We are quickly rolling up on 5000 miles on ours. Love it. Took a trip from Memphis to Heber springs two weeks ago. it is about a 3 hour drive doing 60-65 on two lane roads. MFI said 54mpg when we got there. Even if it reads 5% or so high, that is still right at 50+ mpg.

Edited thread title. This is definitely a doom and gloom thread. Your EX sales manager is completely wrong. Several people have had alignment issues that have been corrected.

Again, the ex service manager doesn't know what he's talking about (good thing he doesn't represent Volkswagen anymore).

If your car pulls to the either direction on the highway, GET AN ALIGNMENT.

I would merge the two threads, but this one has legitimate data and the other one is just doom and gloom spin.

The alignment issues on the Passat require very minor adjustments to fix, as shown in the numbers above. I believe our numbers were similar - sales manager was surprised that such a small deviance from specification would cause the car to pull. They fixed it and the problem went away.

Any of you with cars that pull slightly in either direction, GET AN ALIGNMENT.

It is but it isn't. If I read this thread right the car does have some alignment issues, and it also seems that VW has changed the alignment specifications to correct them. And based on the posts here a lot of these cars have required realignment soon after purchase. So although "not correctable" isn't accurate, it does seem that VW has had to do some work to get it right. And based on an above post, maybe hasn't gotten caster right yet.

This is a difficult topic: alignment shops in my experience are remarkably casual about what they do and the results, being perfectly happy to send a car on its way that's not in spec. And what's unacceptable pull to one side for one driver may not be noticed by another. So who knows what's happening. Some before and after alignment reports from new cars would shed some light on this...maybe.

VeeDubTDI said:

Several people have had alignment issues that have been corrected.
....

If your car pulls to the either direction on the highway, GET AN ALIGNMENT.

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IndigoBlueWagon said:

It is but it isn't. If I read this thread right the car does have some alignment issues, and it also seems that VW has changed the alignment specifications to correct them. .

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Here is the problem my Passat come off the line with a out of alignment CASTER which is NONADJUSTABLE. So please tell me how to "GET AN ALIGNMENT" on such a nonadjustable item?

The problem is more than just a out of adjustment toe or camber and the dealerships know it and does not want to do anything about it.

My caster specs are a perfect 7.47 degrees on the left side and a out of whack 7.24 degrees on the right side which causes the pull.

VeeDubTDI said:

Any of you with cars that pull slightly in either direction, GET AN ALIGNMENT.

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The problem with "get an alignment" is I have and its the caster that is out which is non-adjustable. I have a vehicle with less that 1,000 miles on it with a caster that's A QUARTER of a degree off which is a lot.

If the caster is out and they can't adjust it, then VW should replace suspension components. Perhaps a part was manufactured outside of tolerances or bent during the vehicle assembly process.

Just because it isn't adjustable doesn't mean it can't be fixed.

VeeDubTDI said:

If the caster is out and they can't adjust it, then VW should replace suspension components. Perhaps a part was manufactured outside of tolerances or bent during the vehicle assembly process.

Just because it isn't adjustable doesn't mean it can't be fixed.

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Never said it couldn't be fixed its just getting them to do such a repair. Their answer is you hit a pot hole. What do they expect me to do, ask to have the car put on an alignment rack before I take delivery?

And the question comes up is it simply a lower arm, ball join, strut, or do they have to start bending on the "frame" of my brand new car?

You may have said already, but I'll ask anyway. Have you filed a report with VW Customer Care? "Care" should be in quotes, because they don't, but it's worth a shot.

I would hope that it's a manufacturing issue with a part and they won't have to start bending your frame to make things right.

Filed a claim with them and waiting to hear back. They said they would call me no later than the 31st of this month. If they tell me to go pound sand, whats the next option?

The measured caster angle of each side by itself is irrelevant, even though one or both sides may be out of specified range. The relevant value for tracking stability, pull, braking stability and other steering issues is cross caster. I don't know the spec. for B7s, but the specified limit for cross caster for B4/A3/A4/A5/A6 is 0.5 degrees and I imagine the B7 would be about the same. Yours came out at less than 0.25 degrees. VWs (and most other manufacturers of McPherson strut front ends) have been depending on manufacturing tolerances alone (i.e., no adjustment) to produce acceptable cross caster for many years over many different models without apparent problem.

Your argument that VW should be faulted for failing to meet its own specs. would have more weight if there was a detrimental consequence to that failure. In the case of the caster absolute value (NOT cross caster), there is no real consequence in pull, tire wear, or steering feel as long as cross caster is held to spec.

Having said all that, don't forget that accurate and repeatable readings on an alignment rack are dependent on the skill and dedication of the technician, the condition of the rack, and the frequency with which the it is checked for calibration. Just look at a typical alignment printout and note the variance in a non-adjustable angle (like caster in this case) between "Before" and "After", when presumably nothing has changed on the vehicle or the location of the alignment heads.

You should PM experienced alignment technicians like Oilhammer or Matt-98AHU and run this issue by them, then post their feedback.

I've actually already spoken with a friend who owns a independent shop that does nothing but Audi, BMW,and MB. He put it up on the rack and said the same thing, the right caster is out of spec and that a new vehicle shouldn't have .25 degree cross caster especially on the right side.

His advice was fix it now because with a new vehicle already outside the acceptable limit of caster range (not cross caster) its only going to get worse with time.

He also said in the old days of American cars with adjustable caster they would set both sides the same then ADD about .20 degree to the right side to counter act the road crown.

But my Passat has .25 degree MORE on the LEFT side, now add that with a road crown to the right and it causes a pull that causes fatigue after 100 miles.

I would get more data points from Oilhammer and Matt-98AHU.

Mine pulls to the right as well, and as of yet has not been fixed. I have been waiting to hear back from my dealership, as they said they had a few Passats with the same issue, and didn't have a fix. The dealership is 75 or so miles away, I am a terrible procrastinator, and haven't called to pester them about it. I guess it's time to do that.

Klystron said:

I've actually already spoken with a friend who owns a independent shop that does nothing but Audi, BMW,and MB. He put it up on the rack and said the same thing, the right caster is out of spec and that a new vehicle shouldn't have .25 degree cross caster especially on the right side.

His advice was fix it now because with a new vehicle already outside the acceptable limit of caster range (not cross caster) its only going to get worse with time.

He also said in the old days of American cars with adjustable caster they would set both sides the same then ADD about .20 degree to the right side to counter act the road crown.

But my Passat has .25 degree MORE on the LEFT side, now add that with a road crown to the right and it causes a pull that causes fatigue after 100 miles.

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Take a look at the alignment printout for this '13. This car pulled right before and after the alignment. Note the before and after caster absolute value and L-R cross caster. "Before" shows greater caster on the left, "After" has greater caster on the right and the absolute value of both is notably different from "Before". Since we know caster is non-adjustable, this is measuring error and makes my point about the risk of depending on the accuracy of the numbers to draw conclusions about which alignment angles are causing which symptoms, particlularly when the L-R variance is relatively small, as is the case with yours and this one.

2013 Passat Alignment update

I recently posted about my Passat that was out of caster by .25 degrees negative on the right side. After opening a case with VW customer care they advised my dealer to adjust the sub-frame and that would fix the issue.

Does anyone see any possible problems that would result from this ?

Klystron said:

I recently posted about my Passat that was out of caster by .25 degrees negative on the right side. After opening a case with VW customer care they advised my dealer to adjust the sub-frame and that would fix the issue.

Does anyone see any possible problems that would result from this ?

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mine still pulls right after road force balance, from the left lane, it takes 4 seconds to move to the divide line, 3 more seconds then I'm in the next lane, 2 more seconds and I moved over 2 lanes, they are going to switch my front tires monday, your opening up a can of worms messing with the sub-frame, don't believe the sub-frame was designed to correct any alignment issues any thoughts about smaller wheels mine are 18's I'm thinking of going to 17"s

Adjusting the sub frame seems like the next logical step to me.

Well at this point I'm starting to believe that this will be my last VW purchase.

Got my 2013 Passat back today after they shifted the sub-frame to correct the caster issue but they has instead made the issue worse.

The original alinement from the factory had the left caster at 7.47 degrees and the right just out at 7.24 degrees with a cross caster of 0.23 degrees.

The new alignment is 8.00 degrees left and 7.40 degrees on the right so now I have a cross caster of 0.60 which is over half a degree.

Also add to this the side with the least caster is the right side. So now when I'm on a two lane road the less caster is adding to the effect of the road crown and its in the ditch in less than 2 seconds if you take your hand off the wheel.

Add to that now the steering wheel is not straight so when I drive down the road its at the 11 o'clock position.

I'm really pretty frustrated with VW and don't know what to do at this point.

Klystron said:

Well at this point I'm starting to believe that this will be my last VW purchase.

Got my 2013 Passat back today after they shifted the sub-frame to correct the caster issue but they has instead made the issue worse.

The original alinement from the factory had the left caster at 7.47 degrees and the right just out at 7.24 degrees with a cross caster of 0.23 degrees.

The new alignment is 8.00 degrees left and 7.40 degrees on the right so now I have a cross caster of 0.60 which is over half a degree.

Also add to this the side with the least caster is the right side. So now when I'm on a two lane road the less caster is adding to the effect of the road crown and its in the ditch in less than 2 seconds if you take your hand off the wheel.

Add to that now the steering wheel is not straight so when I drive down the road its at the 11 o'clock position.

I'm really pretty frustrated with VW and don't know what to do at this point.

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I opened a case 10 days ago on my right pull issue and haven't heard back from VW, my front tires were switch on monday, I did it, today I will take a 200 mile trip will post results. http://www.flickr.com/photos/37674324@N07/sets/72157632006521614/

afarfalla said:

I opened a case 10 days ago on my right pull issue and haven't heard back from VW, my front tires were switch on monday, I did it, today I will take a 200 mile trip will post results. http://www.flickr.com/photos/37674324@N07/sets/72157632006521614/

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Are those the updated specs (if there actually are updated specs)?

I've never had good luck with dealer alignments. After three failed tries on my '02 I went to an alignment shop to get it right. Don't blame the car, blame the dealer.

^^^this.