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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old October 27th, 2013, 17:52   #1
Powder Hound
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Default Engine won't shut off

Anyone have ideas?

2000 Golf, auto, 186k miles. After start up and running for any length of time, turning off and removal of the key does not shut the engine off. I have shorted the fuel cutoff solenoid to stop the engine. I also then disconnect the battery to avoid draining it.

Replacement of the ignition switch and fan control modules did nothing to alter this. Obviously, something else going on.

Does anyone have any ideas on what to check?

Thanks,

PH
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Old October 28th, 2013, 11:38   #2
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What about that valve near the intake manifold(sorry i forgot the name) thats basically like a throttle body that closes when you get the key out to stop runaways? It might be clogged up and not moving.
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Old October 28th, 2013, 11:59   #3
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Its called the anti-shudder valve. It operates via a vaccuum actuator, vaccuum pulled from one of the two vaccuum pumps (forget which one N75, or the other, right next to it).

Its worth checking the anti-shudder valve, but I don't know as though a malfunctioning anti-shudder valve would cause, or solve, the problem. Once the key is turned off, shouldn't the ECU stop the injector from injecting fuel?

I am not certain about the 2000 TDI's, but I'm guessing their fuel injection is electronically controlled.
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Old October 28th, 2013, 12:03   #4
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Maybe relay 109 sticking in on position? Give relay a whack. Maybe alternator is failing and backfeeding up one of those little wires. Try unplugging alt and see if it turns off by key.
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Old October 28th, 2013, 12:06   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puntmeister View Post
Its called the anti-shudder valve.
*snaps fingers* that's it! thank you.
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Old October 28th, 2013, 12:36   #6
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Fuel cutoff solenoid valve sticking in the ON position? I've heard of it happening before. I recall there's a plunger in there that can get out of place and cause things to stick. Often unscrewing and removing and then reinstalling the solenoid is enough to fix it if this is what's happening.

I've also heard of the opposite case happening where the fuel cutoff solenoid sort of sticks in the OFF position and this causes the idle to briefly jump to 1800 RPM at startup without giving it any go-pedal input.

Good luck.
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Old October 28th, 2013, 12:36   #7
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The ASV is not needed to shut the car down - it simply, as it's name implies, stops the engine from spinning down which results in a pretty strong shake/shudder on those last few revolutions.
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Old October 28th, 2013, 12:43   #8
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you can test the fuel cutoff solenoid buy vag com if you have one you can actually make it shut off.
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Old October 28th, 2013, 12:47   #9
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You can do the same test by simply removing the wire from the solenoid.
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Old October 28th, 2013, 12:53   #10
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Or the quickest easiest test of all, which is to use a screwdriver or similar metal implement and just short the wire fastened on top of the fuel cutoff solenoid to the IP body. Shuts off in 1 second or less. That's the current method of shutdown for the moment.

And yes, puntmeister, the injection pump is electronically controlled.

I am moving into looking for general problems, and probably kicking (OK, just a gentle tap...) the 109 relay next, then looking for some awkward place for water to collect and start corroding something.
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Old October 28th, 2013, 12:55   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greengeeker View Post
You can do the same test by simply removing the wire from the solenoid.
Well, yeah, but where's the fun in that?

I'll take a look at some wiring diagrams and see if anything jumps out at me and hands me a clue.
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Old October 28th, 2013, 13:05   #12
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I would start by pulling fuses 10, 29, 32 and 34 one by one to see if any of those shut down the engine.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 06:30   #13
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So playing with the 109 relay did not produce any answers. There was a strange thing I found which is an extra ground wire that was run from under the battery tray to the side dash fuse box, and a wire (I removed it when I found it) running from one of the 109 blades to terminal 75 on that fuse/relay panel.

I left the extra ground in place.

I also checked for corrosion and found no evidence for electrical worries.

At this point, I'm this close to making this a parts car. The engine is good, lots of other parts are good - other than shipping headaches I could about break even if I parted it out.

Any takers for the whole car intact?

I'll check the fuses and get back soon.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 06:52   #14
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Seems to me shorting the solenoid is not a good way to kill the engine. You are drawing a lot more current through the ECU doing that.

Have you checked that the key switch is actually opening? The solenoid, QA and ASV are all run by the ECU so it's still getting power.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 07:29   #15
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Is your radio turning off when the key is off and door opened?? Do you have an aftermarket radio?

Seems your 12V constant is shorting out to your 12V accessory / ignition.
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