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TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

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Old November 19th, 2012, 03:57   #1
mk1-83
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Default camplate vp DE657

I got a 12mm vw lt 2.8 tdi fuelpump
when I remove the head I found a DE657 camplate inside.

When I look at the slope angle It can be have higher lift than the DE110.

The stock KF- setting was 9.6 mm ( stock settings tdi 8.6mm) so It have more tension on the camplate to get all the fuel on top rpm's.

Maybe some one have tested the DE657 camplate to a DE143
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Old November 19th, 2012, 06:10   #2
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That LT camplate should be even more aggressive than the DE143 from 11mm pump.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 07:50   #3
mk1-83
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Hatemi you have expertise whit this camplate? And why a slow reving 2.8 L have a more aggresive camplate.. should the 12mm Pump survive with These camplate at 5500 rpm
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Old November 19th, 2012, 10:06   #4
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2.8L LT van is rated at 3500rpm

Might not survive @ 5500+..

Get the 13.5/14mm pumphead to survive. That would be aggressive
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Old November 19th, 2012, 10:11   #5
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Just put taller gearing in your TDI with a stout bottom end and proper sized compounds, tune in a 3800rpm red line, could be fun!
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Old November 19th, 2012, 10:20   #6
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Sorry to piggyback on this thread, I have an ALH 11mm pump with a broken case, and a working 10mm pump from an AHU/1Z (currently installed in the car).

Does anyone know if the camplate and the pump head are a direct swap - are the housings the same size on the VE series pumps?

IE is it possible to take the Camplate and the pump head/plunger from the 11mm ALH pump and swap them into the 1Z pump?
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Old November 19th, 2012, 10:36   #7
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At least you apologized

Compare the part numbers:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=45870
Looks like a 10mm ALH has the same cam plate as AHU/1Z, bodies and mounting are different between the two.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 12:52   #8
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Oke its beter to use the DE110 camplate with the 12mm can it deliver fuel for 250 bhp?
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Old November 19th, 2012, 13:12   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk1-83 View Post
Oke its beter to use the DE110 camplate with the 12mm can it deliver fuel for 250 bhp?
DE143 and 12mm would be better choice
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Old November 19th, 2012, 14:06   #10
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there is a 4mm camplate out there! Most aggressive unit out there. Made from high quality material and with DLC'd parts should be fine for 5k!
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Old November 19th, 2012, 14:08   #11
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Yes de143 its better but maybe not needed to make 250 HP
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Old November 19th, 2012, 15:23   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v8 coupe View Post
there is a 4mm camplate out there! Most aggressive unit out there. Made from high quality material and with DLC'd parts should be fine for 5k!
Mate 13.5/14mm pumphead and big lift camplate maybe no need for inline pump or CR conversion


Quote:
Originally Posted by mk1-83 View Post
Yes de143 its better but maybe not needed to make 250 HP
Maybe not needed but if you can get it cheap go for it. Tune out excess in software and hammer mod if needed. Room to grow..
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Old November 19th, 2012, 18:23   #13
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The trick on these pumps is 2 fold. as it is a staged pump!

1)inertia is the killer of the 12mm and 14mm. 2) the factory limited the front rotary vane pump. It can only flow a fixed volume of fuel. No matter how much piston and cam plate mods you do it is a fundamental limit.

4mm cam plates do exist! They are not cheap, ~400ea. From the research I have done the 11mm pump is 3.3mm and the 10mm is ~3.1mm.

Using that
a stock 10mm pump flows .243cc/rev
a stock 11mm pump flows .314cc/rev
a 12mm/10mm combo flows .351cc/rev
a 12mm/11mm combo flows .373cc/rev
a 10mm/4mm camplate flows .314cc/rev
a 11mm/4mm camplate flows .380cc/rev

See that you can see a 11mm head with a 4mm cam plate can actually out flow the more aggressive 12mm/11mm combo. Now the other advantage of this combo is the weight of the plunger!

The 12mm plunger is heavy and the bigger the mass the more issue, plus it has more surface area which is more friction!

More friction is more heat, which can only be cooled with fuel. The issue that keeps coming up is the piston starving of fuel! This will not change with any piston or camplate. The higher the RPM the more fuel demand the more the primary issue becomes apparent.

The thing that will always limit the pump is the supply pump. It's a fixed rate vane pump, lift pumps help, but you can't really shove much more fuel in there. I've been playing with 6bt parts to see if I can find something that drops in and will supply more fuel. This would mean more fuel flowing through the entire pump, meaning cooler fuel, and less high RPM starvation!
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Old November 19th, 2012, 23:00   #14
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I am going to try 14mm head with DE015 camplate(2.9mm lift). Camplate is from old 1z/ahu pump.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 02:50   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v8 coupe View Post
The trick on these pumps is 2 fold. as it is a staged pump!

1)inertia is the killer of the 12mm and 14mm. 2) the factory limited the front rotary vane pump. It can only flow a fixed volume of fuel. No matter how much piston and cam plate mods you do it is a fundamental limit.

4mm cam plates do exist! They are not cheap, ~400ea. From the research I have done the 11mm pump is 3.3mm and the 10mm is ~3.1mm.

Using that
a stock 10mm pump flows .243cc/rev
a stock 11mm pump flows .314cc/rev
a 12mm/10mm combo flows .351cc/rev
a 12mm/11mm combo flows .373cc/rev
a 10mm/4mm camplate flows .314cc/rev
a 11mm/4mm camplate flows .380cc/rev

See that you can see a 11mm head with a 4mm cam plate can actually out flow the more aggressive 12mm/11mm combo. Now the other advantage of this combo is the weight of the plunger!

The 12mm plunger is heavy and the bigger the mass the more issue, plus it has more surface area which is more friction!

More friction is more heat, which can only be cooled with fuel. The issue that keeps coming up is the piston starving of fuel! This will not change with any piston or camplate. The higher the RPM the more fuel demand the more the primary issue becomes apparent.

The thing that will always limit the pump is the supply pump. It's a fixed rate vane pump, lift pumps help, but you can't really shove much more fuel in there. I've been playing with 6bt parts to see if I can find something that drops in and will supply more fuel. This would mean more fuel flowing through the entire pump, meaning cooler fuel, and less high RPM starvation!

If you look at the dyno of my car, you see hp drop off after 4500rpm for no reason, I was thinking if it would the vane pump, the first thing that would happen would be the timing getting retarded because of the dropping case pressure. but in my case, timing tracks easily with 8x% N108 duty. so i think maybe it is the head itself not flowing enough, or maybe it is starting to float.. who knows
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