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TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

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Old February 20th, 2019, 16:51   #1
Digital Corpus
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Default 12 mm DD Frankenpump Build

Finally got around to disassembling the spare pumps I have on hand, a smooth case 10 mm, ribbed case 10 mm, and Iveco 12 mm. I still haven't finished cleaning up the parts and then coating them with WD40 or oil or submerging them until I can send them out to have them properly assembled into a frankenpump. Short of doing that, I want to know what is worthwhile to keep to build a DD 12 mm in a 10 mm ribbed body, MK IV style mount, injection pump.

The good usable parts I have so far are the heavier springs from the 10 mm ribbed body, 3 plunger shims (haven't measured their thickness just yet), 2 good QA collars, 2 good QA's, the 12 mm pump head, the 12 mm plunger, At least 1 solid N108, at least 1 good timing assembly, 2 sets of rollers & pins & washers & cages for the cam plates, a DE053 cam plate, and a DE643 cam plate.

From what I've read, I want the heavier springs to counter the 12 mm plunger's mass. DE110 cam plate is a solid choice to keep destructive physics in check thus minimizing cavitation. The DE053 cam plate seems to have a slightly steeper incline in comparison to the DE110. I have not looked at the DE643's profile yet, but the plate is in good shape. I wouldn't mind advise on how to make and indexable rig to map the profiles since these are not longer documented.

I'd like to extend the pump timing like some have done in order to have proper dynamic range and eliminate white smoke on startup. However, I can't seem to find the specifics from way back when. I do recall a diagram being posted with possible dimensions.

This will be a daily driver pump with the occasional spritz up to 5000 RPM.
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Old February 20th, 2019, 18:15   #2
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I'm running a 10mm de110 pump with a 12mm chinese head (p/n 1 468 334 475) from aliexpress, and bosch 1 467 010 410 return springs, as the cummins guys say they're 'the' ones to get

I'm not even using all of the timing range, running 8 degrees initial static timing means that if I did... I don't know if the aluminum head, the japan H-beams, or the ARL pistons would go first
Though I'd back off from 8 to 6 degrees, 8 seems like a little too much for cold idle, lots of white smoke.

The one thing above all else with a 12mm pump head is to run big injectors. I shift mine at 6k with DSSr 360s, but siezed one head when I was running pp764s. It was doing fine until I got the intercooler working, then it started requesting enough fuel that the peak injection pressure got high enough to flex the case enough that the plunger stuck

Got 20-30k on this pump now, maybe 1-2k on the one I siezed, actually just recently started with waste motor oil as fuel now, so there's that, too. Please share your findings on the camplates, with lift measurements. I'd try and keep the rollers with the camplates they're worn to, even though it likely doesn't really matter.
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Old February 20th, 2019, 18:35   #3
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Currently running R520's. Need to get the injectors serviced but the best, most reputable member to do so wants me to buy new nozzles and his staging's don't make any sense to me...

I have no problem bumping up a size, but is 0.280's large enough or do I need to bump to 0.320's?
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Old March 5th, 2019, 05:18   #4
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6000 rpm on a 12mm china head is brave.
Use liftpump and fuel cooler to keep pump fed and cool
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Old March 5th, 2019, 06:49   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk1-83 View Post
6000 rpm on a 12mm china head is brave.
Use liftpump and fuel cooler to keep pump fed and cool
I dunno, I've got the lower lift DE110 camplate in there, the strongest return springs I could find reference to, 8 PSI of carter lift pump (maybe .5 bar) and fuel temperature is about -12c or worse at the moment

all of you european guys I saw around were running the taller DE143 camplate
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Old March 5th, 2019, 10:31   #6
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Has anyone considering using tool springs for return springs?
I have use them for heavy duty clutch springs and for valve springs in pulling engine.
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Old March 5th, 2019, 17:34   #7
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probably run into needing rolling element thrust bearings on the spring yoke at some point

die springs are a cool idea though, right up my alley
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Old March 6th, 2019, 16:35   #8
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Why do the 10 mm pump heads have a stainless mesh pre-filter on the pump head between the main bore and the shutoff solenoid and the 12 mm doesn’t?
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Old March 6th, 2019, 21:15   #9
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both my chinese 12mm heads had the inlet screen
I'd bet on it being just oversight, anything it'd be catching is kind of cause for some major ***'ing

wow w.t.f. is wordfiltered? :c
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Old March 8th, 2019, 12:12   #10
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What kf an k setting on you head ?
Im set 12mm at kf 8.8 and k 3.6
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Old March 8th, 2019, 14:31   #11
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The stock pump is torn to bits and I haven’t made the hybrid yet so I don’t have those numbers for you.
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Old March 8th, 2019, 19:53   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk1-83 View Post
What kf an k setting on you head ?
Im set 12mm at kf 8.8 and k 3.6
On the first pump head I measured that stuff, it had somewhat excessive clearance plunger-endcap, and the springs were well away from coilbind, so didn't worry about spring preload

the second time after I siezed the first head I don't think I even bothered to measure any of it, just tossed it all back together, possibly with an extra set of shims behind the plunger springs that had come with the new head.
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Old March 12th, 2019, 10:52   #13
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Its very important to set kf and k setings.
K 4.1 way of 3.4-3.8mm spec
Kf 8.6 9.0
Im hold on oem bosch specs
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Old March 12th, 2019, 17:44   #14
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K is camplate dependant, you're just looking for clearance at TDC of the plunger's travel
Kf is spring dependant, you're looking for some amount of preload to get some amount of (as it would be said with valve springs) seat pressure

OEM measurements are only applicable if you are doing a total OEM rebuild by following the parts books, when mixing and matching parts you're going to need to make up your own measurements for both.
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Old March 12th, 2019, 21:16   #15
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Would 0.280 nozzles be too small or should I spring for 0.320's? I'm only running a GTB1756 and won't ever be upping its size unless a newer generation one significantly decreases spooling time.

I know a lot of people will get hardware, i.e. camshafts, nozzles, air intakes, to push them to their limits, but I prefer sitting somewhere in the mid-range or topping out near "75%" of the physical limit to promote longevity.
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