Timing: Measuring vs. Basic modes = dealer morons

Three weeks ago, I checked timing on a friends car, finding the actual timing below the red line. I told him to take it back to the Medford Lithia VW dealership as they had just installed a new timing belt.

Last week, Lithia charged him $67 for checking (not adjusting) the timing, showing us the numbers from their machine. I hooked up my VAG-COM in their parking lot, and it was still in the same place, below the red line. This had me concerned that someone was not calibrated properly & contacted Ross-Tech.

Thanks to Uwe and Eric's careful explanation of the mode difference between Basic Settings and Measuring Blocks (where Lithia technicians had gotten their data), Lithia capitulated & called my friend to bring the car in for re-timing, and hopefully a refund.

I want to thank again Uwe and Eric for their help in getting the dealership straightened out, and let people know to make sure the dealerships check timing data only in Basic Settings mode.

Kinda scary when the dealer is "not calibrated" isn't it?

-Uwe-

Sad, really sad.

Thanks to Uwe and Eric's careful explanation

Click to expand...

I miss Eric.

Thanks to Uwe and Eric's careful explanation

Click to expand...

I miss Eric.

Click to expand...

Ditto

Ditto.

Me too....

Would anyone provide a link to Uwe and Eric's careful explanation. I am having the same dealership issue

Thanks

Re: Timing: Measuring vs. Basic modes = dealer mor

Maybe I should've pasted this in my original post, but here is the explanation: The VAG-com and Dealership (Siemen's tool) have two modes for looking at timing info: Measuring Blocks mode (default) and Basic Settings mode (no ECU timing compenation). Read on for more details.

Pasted from Uwe email to me:

"Are you sure the dealership is checking the numbers in Basic Settings mode? If you check the timing in Measuring Blocks mode, it will be "OK" most of the time because the ECU is compensating for any discrepancy in static timing. But the correct way to do it is in Basic Settings, because then the ECU won't compensate.

You can try this yourself by looking at the numbers VAG-COM shows in Measuring Blocks vs. Basic Settings. However, VAG-COM won't give you the option to start the Timing Checker in Measuring Blocks mode because the numbers in Measuring Blocks do not show the true static timing. "

"the ECU will attempt to compensate for any error in static timing unless you put it in Basic Settings. "

"...you can observe the timing and fuel temperature as numbers in fields 2 and 9 of Group 000 in both Measuring Blocks and Basic Settings modes and note the differences. The fuel temperature shouldn't change when you switch between Measuring Blocks and Basic Settings (or vice-versa) but the timing will.

FWIW, VW's own scan tools don't have a graphic representation like VAG-COM does, so what the dealer tech should be trained to do is to read the numbers from the screen, then plot them on a paper graph.

The reason we only allow the Timing Checker to be run in Basic Settings mode is that the numbers in Measuring Block mode are meaningless when it comes to setting up the static timing. So the idea is to force them to do it in Basic Settings mode. "

Re: Timing: Measuring vs. Basic modes = dealer mor

Thanks - This is powerful information to have. I only wish the dealerships were 1/2 as informed....

Re: Timing: Measuring vs. Basic modes = dealer mor

My dumbass made this same mistake the other day. I tried for about an hour to increase my timing and it just wouldn't go any higher.