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TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

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Old November 28th, 2013, 07:18   #1
Diesel Mania_26
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Default VNT 17/22 or GT1756?? for ALH.

Looking for modest power gains for an ALH.

Rebuilt engine with new cylinder head and PP520 injectors and removed egr and egr piping etc. straight pipe... clutch has been done as well.

is there an advantage with one over the other?

I believe the 17/22 is pretty much a bolt in system - what is the GT1756 like??

longevity / reliability?

cheers.
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Old November 28th, 2013, 08:48   #2
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17/22 will be plug and play, the 1756vk will require a bit of tweaking on the exhaust side at a minimum.
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Old November 28th, 2013, 08:52   #3
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For modest power gains, the 17/22 will be easier and cheaper.
The advantage of the 1756 happens somewhere past 180 whp.
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Old November 28th, 2013, 09:34   #4
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I have been looking ta some of the Dark Side Developments stuff as well..

tempted to go with one of his kits...

This will still be my daily driver of course.

What are the power gains for a 17/22 vs. one of the custom kits with a 1756 on it?
worth it?
cool factor?
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Old November 28th, 2013, 09:34   #5
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pp520's + 17/22+ FMIC+ 3Bar MAP+ RC4 = 150 hp 250 ft-lb torque. If you want 180 hp you can put in PP764's and a 11mm pump.

The FMIC gives you full power for longer. Stock IC will heat soak in about 8 seconds.

Yes if you are wanting to break through the 200hp you want a bigger turbo. Of course the stock differential will not like it; the rivets on my spider gear were yielding when Matt put in the Wave LSD.
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Old November 28th, 2013, 10:43   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious Chris View Post
pp520's + 17/22+ FMIC+ 3Bar MAP+ RC4 = 150 hp 250 ft-lb torque. If you want 180 hp you can put in PP764's and a 11mm pump.

The FMIC gives you full power for longer. Stock IC will heat soak in about 8 seconds.

Yes if you are wanting to break through the 200hp you want a bigger turbo. Of course the stock differential will not like it; the rivets on my spider gear were yielding when Matt put in the Wave LSD.
Cool thx.
I am planning on upgrading to a larger aluminum side mount IC as well as larger and better plumbing of course.

I was wondering about the stock differential... I suppose a Limited Slip would be recommended?
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Old November 28th, 2013, 12:45   #7
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17/1722/S7 install in a weekend, tune, done. Hassle free, drives great for years. Easy to troubleshoot and fix if necessary. Up to 2x stock HP and torque in less than a single weekend.

The GTB turbos may be a bit more sketchy for the casual backyard guy. Some of these forum threads cars are still a "work in progress" after months and even years of fiddling. Is there any benefit in an ALH with stock internals and moderate fueling? (up to R520 and stock IP ~180 ish whp) Probably not enough to make it worth the potential hassle IMO. This route may not be for everyone. If you are willing to take your car off the road, while you fabricate parts, test and try stuff to make it work, or else pay someone a blank check to make it work, then go for it.
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Old November 28th, 2013, 13:06   #8
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1756vk is easy to set up and easy to tune. Well worth it.
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Old November 28th, 2013, 14:18   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KERMA View Post
17/1722/S7 install in a weekend, tune, done. Hassle free, drives great for years. Easy to troubleshoot and fix if necessary. Up to 2x stock HP and torque in less than a single weekend.
The GTB turbos may be a bit more sketchy for the casual backyard guy. Some of these forum threads cars are still a "work in progress" after months and even years of fiddling. Is there any benefit in an ALH with stock internals and moderate fueling? (up to R520 and stock IP ~180 ish whp) Probably not enough to make it worth the potential hassle IMO. This route may not be for everyone. If you are willing to take your car off the road, while you fabricate parts, test and try stuff to make it work, or else pay someone a blank check to make it work, then go for it.
Although a pro adapted my 1756, I'm pretty sure I could have done it myself.
It's not exactly rocket science. The only "work in progress" is planning the next upgrade.
The real surprise was how well it works with the pre-existing tune and stock auto injectors!
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Old November 28th, 2013, 15:16   #10
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You have a lot of power to gain. 11mm pump and r520 should do the job
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Old November 28th, 2013, 15:26   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFettig View Post
You have a lot of power to gain. 11mm pump and r520 should do the job
Right after the manual swap...
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Old November 28th, 2013, 16:02   #12
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maybe not rocket science, BUT there is a clear difference in the process to get each one to work.

And cost

---------------------------------
1722/17/S7:
100% bolt in uses stock piping and connections.
Cost ~$1000
including comp adapter and oil lines, turnkey, done. 4 hour installation. Double stock hp/torque potential. (more than "modest")

----------------------------------
1756vk:
need a kit in order for the turbo to install
Cost: ~$2500
(plus the undetermined cost of "not included" stuff)
Plus overseas shipping cost for oversized items like the downpipe.
not included: vnt conversion (extra cost option)
not included: compressor outlet
not included: pipe to the IC
not included: inlet piping airbox/turbo
not included: Cat or cat-back exhaust fitting/adaption.
EGR use not possible.

---------------------------------
1756vk bare Turbo alone
Cost ~$1400 no adapters, oil lines, pipes, manifolds, or vnt conversion. You can get by cheaper using a passat manifold and adapter plate, then fabricate your own downpipe, inlet and outlet pipes, figure out the silicone, etc if you are so inclined.
Total cost = ?

-------------------------------------

The installation process will be easier for some guys than others.

If you are a skilled fabricator or shop owner, the installation process will be easier. Or if you don't care how much it costs to pay someone else to do it.

With moderate fuel mods, and stock ALH internals, there won't be enough (any) performance difference to justify the extra expense or aggro. IMO

AND remember here's what the OP wanted:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhader View Post
Looking for modest power gains for an ALH.
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Last edited by KERMA; November 28th, 2013 at 16:12.
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Old November 28th, 2013, 16:16   #13
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Here's a dyno of my car with a 17/22, PP520s, and 11mm pump, along with a few other mods.


If you're having trouble reading the numbers it's 160 HP/280 torque. I have a 1756 sitting in a box behind my desk along with a port-matched BHW manifold. I was going to install it but realized I needed to work out intercooler piping, airbox to turbo connection (may not be able to continue to use my PD150 airbox to intake), and would need a new downpipe. I also wasn't happy with where the actuator sat, and would want to cut off and move the compressor exit so it didn't end up too close to the block when installed. All of these things are easy enough to do, but take time and/or money, especially the intercooler piping and downpipe. I wasn't concerned about tuning, but didn't know how bulletproof the setup would be. And I drive this car a lot of long distances, don't want to have problems at bad times.

I probably will still put the 1756 in the car at some point, but right now I"m happy with the 17/22. And with a fresh tune it's now pushing 50 MPG even on winter fuel.
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Old November 28th, 2013, 17:00   #14
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I almost went with a 17/22, but last minute I decided upon the 1756. That being said, echoing Kerma, the 17/22 is a *really* good bargain. However, if you decide you want more, it would have been better to just bite the bullet and do the 1756.

IBW, what is the difference between the BHW and AFN manifolds?
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Old November 29th, 2013, 03:36   #15
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The AFN manifold has notoriously poor airflow, according to a number of folks I talked to when selecting components. Some would argue that small passages don't matter in a turbocharged engine, but I was able to locate both so I went with the BHW. Also, I had my head ported at the time and it seemed silly to provide more airflow in the head and less in the manifold.
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