TDI Recall and Stop Sale Notice

Gents - Check out the thread and document posted by Sand Diesel in the Mk6 A6 Jetta section. It affects some JSW and Golf models as well. Here is a link:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=331833

Thanks to Niner for cross posting it to this section and to SandDiesel for the original posting. See post 7 of the above thread.

wait only 8,161 cars are affected in dealer inventory? how many out on the streets on the owners dime? and this looks like it has nothing to do with HPFPs, but more with leaky injector lines and potential fuel leaks.

what about HPFPs VW?

This has already happened to a few cars, as I understand. At least, I know of a few that had "sudden, massive fuel leaks" at or around the fuel rail/piping.

is it just me, or does this make it LESS likely that they'll now recall our craptastic HPFPs?

So the NTSB was investigating this and the HPFP failure. Now the HPFP... when will we see action on this?

Do you all think that these problems with our cars will have a large negative effect on our resale value? That was another positive to purchasing these cars was they held their value well.

740GLE said:

what about HPFPs VW?

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St.Hubbins said:

is it just me, or does this make it LESS likely that they'll now recall our craptastic HPFPs?

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I hope not. However, it is easy to understand why VW is willing to do this. Adding a "vibration damper" (a piece or foam rubber?) or even replacing a single injector line is a lot cheaper than replacing 10s of thousands of HPFPs. Unless the NHTSA forces their hand, it is a lot cheaper to just replace the failed HPFPs (even if out of warranty) than a major recall to replace all pumps.

We shall see how this goes. My car is one of the ones with the "defective" fuel lines (build date Jan '09).

Have Fun!

Don

Fantastic, now that I've had my brand new 2012 Golf for all of a week and a half.

So basically we now wait for a call from our dealership?

sway162 said:

So basically we now wait for a call from our dealership?

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...or you can start calling them and keep asking them when they will have the parts. Call them enough and you might get moved to the beginning of the line. Call them too much and you might piss them off and get moved to the end of the line.

I don't know what you should do.

Have Fun!

Don

It's funny, early on I had a buzzing noise under the hood which I tracked down to a fuel line vibrating against the black styrofoam chunk they put under them. I secured my lines to the foam piece with some zip ties to keep them from vibrating...which solved the problem. I wonder if my "fix" is what VW calls installing vibration dampers? Here's my old post about it.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=293499&highlight=fuel+styrofoam

Westro said:

So the NTSB was investigating this and the HPFP failure. Now the HPFP... when will we see action on this?

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I really think we should go public and make as much noise as possible about the HPFP issue. I don't trust the feds to save us. We should do it ourselves. You know that VW has the ear of the NTSB - we TDI owners should also. Submitting reports about failed HPFPs is only the beginning of what we could do to influence VW and the feds to do the right thing.

VW is in a position of weakness because they are trying to improve their reliability reputation. They are susceptible to embarrassment and public shaming. The time to act is now.

create a facebook page and link as many other sites to it as possible, so anyone looking for TDI's will come across it. Biggest thing is keep it factual with as little bias and controversy as possible. The goal to prod VW to respond there is this giant mass of people who know of this issue and it's affecting their sales.

morphinex said:

I really think we should go public and make as much noise as possible about the HPFP issue. I don't trust the feds to save us. We should do it ourselves. You know that VW has the ear of the NTSB - we TDI owners should also. Submitting reports about failed HPFPs is only the beginning of what we could do to influence VW and the feds to do the right thing.

VW is in a position of weakness because they are trying to improve their reliability reputation. They are susceptible to embarrassment and public shaming. The time to act is now.

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So what do you suggest doing (that's not being done)??? - when VW is apparently covering all HPFP failures now even though some were out of warranty, there's a class action suit in TX, NHTSA is doing an engineering investigation and should issue a new IR shortly to VW, there's was a segment on a national radio car talk show on the failures, and I a national network news investigative reporter was made aware of the issue.

It seems that those that want "saved", want saved from the potential high cost of a catistrophic failure. That doesn't make news especially if the chance of a failure might only be 1:500 now. What makes news is several serious injuries linked to a HPFP failure. I hope VW does what is right but how are you going to embarass / public shame VW by "going public" without being held liable for potential false accusations???

One needs to do as much due dilegence as possible prior to purchase (new or used) and then vote with your cash.

740GLE said:

create a facebook page and link as many other sites to it as possible, so anyone looking for TDI's will come across it. Biggest thing is keep it factual with as little bias and controversy as possible. The goal to prod VW to respond there is this giant mass of people who know of this issue and it's affecting their sales.

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That's the problem. What are the facts? - High cost of a potential HPFP failure. But we really don't know the cause nor likelihood of a failure. It's all speculation but we are good at that.

This might be the noise I hear after a hot restart on warmer days, where exactly is this styrofoam located? do you have pictures?

nhdoc said:

It's funny, early on I had a buzzing noise under the hood which I tracked down to a fuel line vibrating against the black styrofoam chunk they put under them. I secured my lines to the foam piece with some zip ties to keep them from vibrating...which solved the problem. I wonder if my "fix" is what VW calls installing vibration dampers? Here's my old post about it.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=293499&highlight=fuel+styrofoam

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From AutoSpies:
"
This is primarily due to a harmonic resonance issue with the fuel injector system. It appears the natural resonance of the injector is coinciding with the injectors and in some case may impede proper fuel delivery. The solution is simple enough with the attachment of a isolation dampener to assembly to alter the natural resonance. The stop sale was issued until parts can be received at the dealership.

At this time it is unclear if a recall will be involved for any or all TDI Jetta models or if it will be expanded to other models.
"

My 2012 Golf is just a few weeks old. I just called my dealership and got an appointment for tomorrow morning. Service told me that there is now a recall for this issue. I was told that they will inspect the part in question and replace it if necessary; and that the problem doesn't effect all cars in the recall.

I know none of you want to hear this, but I for one am glad I did not purchase a VW TDI vehicle. So many gassers coming out (that are as much fun or more) with better mileage, lower cost of ownership and a lot less major and minor gremlins.

I have lurked on this forum for several months reading about Roof panel issues, CEL issues, HPFP issues, intercooler issues, electrical gremlins, mysterious chimes, radio problems, etc, etc. One or two bugs..okay. A whole host of quality control and bad engineering issues is another story altogether. VW needs to spend some serious time with the Six Sigma process of manufacturing.

This is not a flame or a rant. Its more of a "I throw in the towel" kind of statement. I had hoped to see quicker action by VW to fix these issues and better dealings with the people paying their bills. I test drove a JSW several times and wanted one..plain and simple. But I need to get to work and be able to drive my children around without being stranded on the side of the road. Good luck all..as much as I like the JSW, I'm steering clear.

Well, a Facebook page was successful with Sony DLP tv failures. Basically the optical blocks were failing. Sony started replacing the blocks under warranty. Then the replacements started going too. Sony then extended the warranty for this issue, but still had a faulty design that would continue to fail. The average cost the tv was $1200-1700 and the block was $1000 alone. A lot of boards turned up the heat, several online articles, and a couple of lawsuits, and the facebook page ended up being the solution. All this sound familiar?
The bad thing is that unless an owner does the research they will never find the page. I found it, followed the steps for resolution and got a $1700 replacement tv for $260 and got to keep my original. Bottom line is that the Facebook page reached a much larger audience than the AV forums could and that was more press than Sony wanted.

zznalg said:

My 2012 Golf is just a few weeks old. I just called my dealership and got an appointment for tomorrow morning. Service told me that there is now a recall for this issue. I was told that they will inspect the part in question and replace it if necessary; and that the problem doesn't effect all cars in the recall.

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Good to know.

willysjeep said:

I know none of you want to hear this, but I for one am glad I did not purchase a VW TDI vehicle. So many gassers coming out (that are as much fun or more) with better mileage, lower cost of ownership and a lot less major and minor gremlins.

I have lurked on this forum for several months reading about Roof panel issues, CEL issues, HPFP issues, intercooler issues, electrical gremlins, mysterious chimes, radio problems, etc, etc. One or two bugs..okay. A whole host of quality control and bad engineering issues is another story altogether. VW needs to spend some serious time with the Six Sigma process of manufacturing.

This is not a flame or a rant. Its more of a "I throw in the towel" kind of statement. I had hoped to see quicker action by VW to fix these issues and better dealings with the people paying their bills. I test drove a JSW several times and wanted one..plain and simple. But I need to get to work and be able to drive my children around without being stranded on the side of the road. Good luck all..as much as I like the JSW, I'm steering clear.

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Congratulations.....do you want something?

Plus 3 Golfer said:

So what do you suggest doing (that's not being done)??? - when VW is apparently covering all HPFP failures now even though some were out of warranty, there's a class action suit in TX, NHTSA is doing an engineering investigation and should issue a new IR shortly to VW, there's was a segment on a national radio car talk show on the failures, and I a national network news investigative reporter was made aware of the issue.

It seems that those that want "saved", want saved from the potential high cost of a catistrophic failure. That doesn't make news especially if the chance of a failure might only be 1:500 now. What makes news is several serious injuries linked to a HPFP failure. I hope VW does what is right but how are you going to embarass / public shame VW by "going public" without being held liable for potential false accusations???

One needs to do as much due dilegence as possible prior to purchase (new or used) and then vote with your cash.

Click to expand...

The NHTSA investigation and the lawsuit are solid and necessary starts. The existence of both is why I suggest that the time is right to amplify the pressure those tactics are already exerting on VW. NHTSA may yet save us by compelling a recall, but I don't believe we can count on them to back us up. We need to do the legwork to force NHTSA and VW into a corner where they have no choice but to do the right thing.

The lawsuit may work. Legal action may drag on for a very long time, and the outcome may not be what we hope for. Should we just sit around and do nothing while our expensive, defective cars, inch closer to the point of no return?

I don't believe we should. By working together we can increase the chances that we get the right outcome.

We'd need to start an organized campaign around this. The only leverage we have is pressure and shame, so everything would need to be directed toward spreading the word as far, wide, and loud as possible. I'm encouraged that some national news outlets have picked up the story. That means that there is potential for more hay to be made.

Yeah, we could make a facebook page.

We could make a website with a catchy name and a whole variety of information. It could contain testimonials, information for the press, and of course a list of the remedies we seek.

We could work together with organizations concerned about these issues, such as the organization that got lemon laws passed in every state; concerned engineering outfits; green technology organizations; and consumer advocate organizations. I don't have a good sense about this, but I'm sure that with enough digging we could find some folks out there who care. Their organizations could add their voice to ours and help us in other ways.

We can lobby government agencies and elected officials. We can not only write letters and make phone calls to NHTSA, but we can also contact our elected officials. They can apply pressure to NHTSA and/or VW to do the right thing.

We can continue outreach to the press at all levels: national, regional, and local.

These are just some thoughts off the top of my head. There are probably other things we can do too.

We'd have to get the messaging right, and I think you are correct that it would need to be about safety. Nobody has been killed or injured yet, but we (and VW and the NHTSA) shouldn't wait until someone is.

I'm very new around here, but I am willing to pitch in.

I would be curious to know if anything like this has been tried before with VW, and what the outcome was.

Well, a Facebook page was successful with Sony DLP tv failures. Basically the optical blocks were failing. Sony started replacing the blocks under warranty. Then the replacements started going too. Sony then extended the warranty for this issue, but still had a faulty design that would continue to fail. The average cost the tv was $1200-1700 and the block was $1000 alone. A lot of boards turned up the heat, several online articles, and a couple of lawsuits, and the facebook page ended up being the solution. All this sound familiar?

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Exactly. These tactics do work.

A website is already running.

I googled sony tv, optical block, sxrd problems / issues and other combinations and no facebook hits on the first page. BTW, I still have an early 2007 Sony SXRD DLP TV and no optical block issues (on my second lamp). And I knew about the problem because I purchased the TV through a Sony employee and relative.

willysjeep said:

...I for one am glad I did not purchase a VW TDI vehicle. So many gassers coming out (that are as much fun or more) with better mileage, lower cost of ownership and a lot less major and minor gremlins.

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Please help me out. What are the "so many gassers" with better mileage, lower cost of ownership, and that are as much fun? I'm going to need a car soon for my wife or son and I'm having trouble finding such a vehicle. I do like the GTI, but clearly that doesn't get better mpg and it doesn't cost less. My wife is considering the Honda Civic Hybrid, her Accord was amazing, but the Civic clearly isn't fun like my Golf TDI and the cockpit is odd looking to me. The Civic Hybrid does match the mpg of the Golf TDI, maybe slightly better and with regular gas.

I will appreciate your suggestions!

Plus 3 Golfer said:

That's the problem. What are the facts? - High cost of a potential HPFP failure. But we really don't know the cause nor likelihood of a failure. It's all speculation but we are good at that.

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That sounds like a pretty good fact right there. A failure that can happen with out warning, you can't prevent it, and could leave your pockets 6-8K lighter on a car that could be 2 years 60k. If you keep the facebook page as a general "we know about this issue and want VW to do something about it".

The bonus of facebook is the viral effect. A blog is only going to get traffic when people look for it, but linking/"liking" a facebook page will get 100's of more hits by people who don't know about the issue.

Remember when that video of the 17 yeah old Dominos employee was messing with the sandwhiches and was posted to youtube? their stock took a 10% drop.

Plus 3 Golfer said:

BTW, I still have an early 2007 Sony SXRD DLP TV and no optical block issues (on my second lamp).

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Same here. I'm still using mine too as the symptoms aren't nearly as bad as some, but the signs of a progressing failure are there and I didn't want it to fail right after the warranty expired, then have an invasive replacement service with a unit that still will fail, and all to the tune of 75% of the original cost. Sound familiar?

Most folks after breaking into the sets came to the conclusion that the detriment comes from dust being pulled into the cabinet and finding its way to an unprotected block, then burning in. Bad design. A new replacement block won't change that. Sound familiar?

Sony realized their situation and cut and ran from the DLP arena, leaving customers with the feeling of no support. After the outcry on many forums the Facebook page was created and the word spread. Sony starting replacing failed sets with regular LCD's at greatly reduced prices, some even for free, but owners had to be in the know or just happen upon the page. No letters were issued and a standard call to Sony Support would only have resulted in the partyline advice to set up a service or replacement. I will say that atleast they (Sony) didn't try to blame customers for keeping a dirty house. Sound familiar?

I'm not positive on this, but I think the Facebook page was actually put up by SonyListens. If so, it seems like a kind of backdoor approach to handling just customers who are aware of the problem intimately, thereby avoiding an announced complete recall/compensation for all sets which would be a monumental expense. They also still get to continue doing the regular service ($$) for the uninformed who just call up, schedule, and pay. Again I'm not positive about this, just my speculation.

Plus 3 Golfer said:

A website is already running.

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This site is stressing me out!

willysjeep said:

I know none of you want to hear this, but I for one am glad I did not purchase a VW TDI vehicle. So many gassers coming out (that are as much fun or more) with better mileage, lower cost of ownership and a lot less major and minor gremlins.

I have lurked on this forum for several months reading about Roof panel issues, CEL issues, HPFP issues, intercooler issues, electrical gremlins, mysterious chimes, radio problems, etc, etc. One or two bugs..okay. A whole host of quality control and bad engineering issues is another story altogether. VW needs to spend some serious time with the Six Sigma process of manufacturing.

This is not a flame or a rant. Its more of a "I throw in the towel" kind of statement. I had hoped to see quicker action by VW to fix these issues and better dealings with the people paying their bills. I test drove a JSW several times and wanted one..plain and simple. But I need to get to work and be able to drive my children around without being stranded on the side of the road. Good luck all..as much as I like the JSW, I'm steering clear.

Click to expand...

Vws have always been hit or miss, either you have a great one, or you want to take it out back and shoot it. The only thing that vw is recognized for more than high school girls in jettas is gremlin plagued cars.

That said, I was on the same mindset with the new crop of 40mpg hwy gas compacts. Gf was looking for a new car this summer, we cross shopped the new accent and focus (hatch was a requirement so no cruze). Both were pretty much gutless in comparison. In a few years when more <2l di turbo gassers are available i'm sure the situation may be flipped. But for now there was a huge compromise in driving enjoyment between the tdi and 40mpg gas compacts we tried. Even my 01m cursed alh tdi had more go than the accent.

Our hopeful solution for the fuel contamination excuse from dealers is to only fill up at a local truck stop and keep detailed fuel records. Have a tenant that is a truck driver, he claims most truck stops are able to provide documentation as to the quality of their fuel in order to cover their ass liability wise if anything goes wrong on a semi. Hopefully if push ever comes to shove he was right.