Stronger skip plate?

Hoffer

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Stronger skid plate?

OK, so I managed to push the OEM metal skid plate (which I bought before the aluminum plates where available) past it's limit this weekend. (Pictures to follow this evening.) Blew out an oil pan in Canada. Managed to JB Weld the thing together, and once I filled it, only lost two quarts of oil in the eight hour trek back to Pittsburgh. :D

I need a stronger skid plate. The OEM steel plate is just not strong enough. I take it the aluminum plate would not be much better in this regard?

I assume the RallyVW guys have some sort of custom plate. Anyone know whether they fabricated their own plate or had it made?

This is the fourth oil pan change for me (first with the OEM steel skid plate), and it's getting a little old. Not to mention having to fix it 8 hours from home... ;)
 

TdiRacing

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The OEM steel pan is the strongest and weighs the most. Like 60+ pounds. I am not talking about the thin metal pan cover that hugs the pan, but the large complete undercarraige cover from VW Motorsports. It is what the factory rally cars use. Dieselgeek used to sell them, but World Impex can get them as well for you. Talk to John. Look at teh Skid Plate article in the ARTICLES section at the top of the page and you can see what it looks like.

The rally car a has a huge steel frame as well as thick aluminum all custom made by us. Not practicle for others. It you want stong, get the full steel cover.
 

Hoffer

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TdiRacing said:
The OEM steel pan is the strongest and weighs the most. Like 60+ pounds. I am not talking about the thin metal pan cover that hugs the pan, but the large complete undercarraige cover from VW Motorsports. It is what the factory rally cars use. Dieselgeek used to sell them, but World Impex can get them as well for you. Talk to John. Look at teh Skid Plate article in the ARTICLES section at the top of the page and you can see what it looks like.
If this is the skid plate you mean:

Skid plate installation

Then that's the one I've had for a couple years (bought it from Dieselgeek before the advent of the Panzer plate). I've put a beating on it, and it didn't stand up to this weekend. I'll post pics here in a minute if they came out... It's not much of a skid plate in rally terms (i.e. I wouldn't want to do stage rally with only that). If that's what the factory cars use, then, well, they must go through a lot of 'em... :D

TdiRacing said:
The rally car a has a huge steel frame as well as thick aluminum all custom made by us. Not practicle for others. It you want stong, get the full steel cover.
Define praticle... :) I'm looking for stronger than the steel one. I figure custom made was pretty much the only option. I was wondering if you guys built it yourself or had someone do it, and you've answered that. ;) Next question is how'd you build it? Thick aluminum is what I was thinking. How much of a frame did you build? All the way around, or just for the mounting up front?
 

Hoffer

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Here are some pics of the skid plate post incident. It's tough to show how much the skid plate was bashed in, but you'll get the idea. I'll post pictures of the oil pan when it's off the car...




 

moondawg

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I could watch that gif in your sig all night.

*** did you do to that skid plate!?!

If it ain't strong enought, I'm guessing you're not going to find one strong enough.

moondawg
 

TdiRacing

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Well Hoffer, you really put the hurt to that plate. That is the strongest one that is out there. I think you need to raise your car some.

We took rollbar tubing and made a frame that attaches to the frame rails and the subframe, then used a thick a$$ aluminum plate as well. I made one similar for my own car. I only use thin aluminum on my street car, as I have a tube right in front of my oil pan that would take the hit. I can jack the car up on it. It adds a lot of weight, but protects well.

You can make a frame. It is not for everyone, but it looks like you REALLY need to do something.

I hit a granite boulder(8inch diameter) once at 60 mph with my car and I thought the car exploded. Just bent my aluminum plate up and the steel tube took the rest and I survived without issue.
 

VW Vet

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TdiRacing said:
The OEM steel pan is the strongest and weighs the most. Like 60+ pounds.
The OEM skid plate is 0.093" thick and weighs 32 lbs. including hardware.
That's the figures for the one I brought back from Germany 4 years ago. It covers the entire front undercarriage.
 

Hoffer

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On a related note, anybody know the part numbers for the two front bolts that hold up the OEM steel skid plate? What I thought were the part numbers from the PDF aren't coming up at Impex...

TdiRacing said:
Well Hoffer, you really put the hurt to that plate. That is the strongest one that is out there. I think you need to raise your car some.
Yeah. Having stock suspension doesn't give a whole lot of clearance...

TdiRacing said:
We took rollbar tubing and made a frame that attaches to the frame rails and the subframe, then used a thick a$$ aluminum plate as well. I made one similar for my own car. I only use thin aluminum on my street car, as I have a tube right in front of my oil pan that would take the hit. I can jack the car up on it. It adds a lot of weight, but protects well.
I've been exploring my options, trying to decide how much weight I want to add to the car. Probably aluminum, maybe 3/8". Have to decide if I want the front to come out past the lip of the car and be bent up. I may even switch between a heavy plate and the OEM metal one, if feasible.

Where did you mount the aluminum tube in front of your oil pan to? I would like tonight to be the last time I change that damn oil pan...

TdiRacing said:
You can make a frame. It is not for everyone, but it looks like you REALLY need to do something.
At this point, I should probably just put a cage in it and by another car as my new daily driver... :D
 

paramedick

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Did you actually break the front mounting arms off that beast, or are they removable? Sorry, I never paid attention to them.
 

Hoffer

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paramedick said:
Did you actually break the front mounting arms off that beast, or are they removable? Sorry, I never paid attention to them.
No, they're still there, just hard to see in the photos.
 

Hoffer

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astonishedboy said:
I don't think the intended use is to skip with this thing. :D Damn, that's some dirving!
Or, more appropriately, lack thereof... :eek:

Fortuna Wolf said:
You're supposed to drive over ramps with your wheels and not your oil pan. Please, tell us what happened!
It happened on the Lanark Highlands Rally, a Canadian drivex. Although I believe the problems started with POR up in Michigan. Long story short is multilple hits to the same area bashed the plate up closer to the oil pan. Finally, hit the last rock that pushed the last bit and creamed the oil pan.

I'm really at a crossroads as to what I'm going to do. In the short term, I'm going to try to straighten the plate out so I have some protection. And try to be more careful, although that's not necessarily an option on Canadian drivex. :D

In the long run, I either have to:
  • fabricate a proper aluminum skid plate (a la RallyVW) for this car,
  • buy a seperate TSD car
  • get it over with, bite the bullet, and just get a stage rally car
  • get a new daily driver and convert this car to a stage rally car
Obviously, various levels of financial equipment. My goal was to get into stage rally (again) as a driver by 2007, meaning the third option is currently the one falling into favor... :D As much as I like the A4 platform, (or even a good A3), I'm thinking a Focus if NASA is still running te Spec Rally Focus program next year...
 

TdiRacing

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You basically need to add some support under the plate to prevent the plate from ever resting up on the oil pan. Steel tubing is your best bet for this. Make a tube go right in front of the oil pan. This will protect it from a front and bottom impact should the aluminum or steel skid plate bend up on hard hits. Our plate still bends, but it never hit the pan because of the addition bar.

You really need to upgrade your suspension with coilovers, so you can raise the car some, especially in the front. You can get 2+inches up front. This will go a long way for rally stages. We used to have the car way too low and would drag the skid plate all the time. Now, it hardly ever hits unless there is a large ridge or rocks.
 

Hoffer

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TdiRacing said:
You really need to upgrade your suspension with coilovers, so you can raise the car some, especially in the front.
Yeah, I can get a deal on some DMS bits, so that's what I'll probably end up doing. However, they still ain't cheap, and would put a serious dent in the stage car fund... :rolleyes:
 

TdiRacing

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Yeah, nobody said good stuff was cheap. We paid $3000 for the proflex ones. I would think twice about the ones you mention. They broke after one rally. Parts were hard to get, and they broke agin, so they went into the trash can.
 

Hoffer

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TdiRacing said:
Yeah, nobody said good stuff was cheap. We paid $3000 for the proflex ones. I would think twice about the ones you mention. They broke after one rally. Parts were hard to get, and they broke agin, so they went into the trash can.
I'll have to check out the proflex, especially if you guys have had good luck with 'em. I know we used DMS for a couple years on a 2000 Celica, and only bent one tube when my driver basically ripped a front wheel off. I was just going with what's worked for me in the past (plus, I know a distributor... :D).

But I may hold off if I decide to get a stage car for next year though. Plus, I want to buy a second house. Tired of paying rent... :eek: Stupid priorities...
 
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