Prospective Buyer

I currently have a civic hybrid but recently have realized that there are many times when it would be nice to have a hatchback rather than a friend with a truck, so I've been looking into all sorts of options, but after reading reviews the Golf really stuck out as being a blast to drive with incredible fuel efficiency and reliability. That was until I came across one comment on a review mentioning HPFPs and I ended up reading this site for several days about all the problems these cars encounter. I tend to be optimistic though and I was hoping these issues were quite rare, so I sent an inquiry to a local dealer in Kansas City about the multiple NHTSA investigations involving the HPFP, fuel leaks as well as the DSG issues. Below is the response I received, and the first bullet seems like a red flag, company line type of thing since I know it's not true. I really wanted a Golf TDI but it would have to be a car I would keep for a long time to justify the cost, so I have started looking at the Mazda 3 5 door and Focus Hatch instead. This makes me sad.

Did some checking and talked to a couple of our guys who knew something about the topics.

• The high pressure pump failure is a problem that a few people on the east coast have had. Very few vehicles have been affected and some of the problems were due to the customers putting gas in the car instead of diesel. But all in all the issue is very limited.
• DSG software updates are something that VW does from time to time and does not mean that there are issues with the transmission. Software updates are now done on cars, just like Microsoft updates your computer on a regular basis. These updates are done to improve operations.
• VW recommends that the users only use the low sulfer diesel in the TDI's, also they may want to use a gas station with a fuel guarantee.
• TDI's accept up to a 20% blend of bio diesel they are currently testing b100 style blends

The flag to me in this response is the last bullet: VW only allows B5 in new TDIs, clearly stating that running a higher percentage of biodiesel will void the warranty.

I agree that reported HPFP failures are limited: I read here recently that the NHSTA has 200 reports of 120,000 TDIs sold. That to me is pretty low. However, I don't know that anyone has proven that mis-fueling can cause HPFP failure. Seems that dealers use this as a reason to deny a warranty claim instead.

Regarding swapping a Civic Hybrid for a Golf, I think you'll find the Golf quite different: more substantial feeling, probably much better handling, and the space, although not huge, is very useful when you fold the seats. You may not find you have the same drive-it-and-forget-it experience as you have had with the Honda, so keep that in mind when deciding.

Here's mine:

Not to get into the why hpfp fails, just know that when it does you replace everything in the fuel system to include fuel tank. So make sure you change the hpfp at the recommended intervals. Or save up the money to do it yourself when it does happen out of warranty.

I don't have a CR TDI yet, but can you show me where the intervals are for chaning out the fuel pump? First I heard of that.

I think I'll make myself a tin-foil hat to where while driving/working on the car once I buy it...

If it makes you feel any better, Consumer Reports shows the Golf TDI to not only have above average reliability, but also is the most reliable model in VW's portfolio. Actually, the GTI might be more reliable, but only barely. Regardless, diesel and gas Golfs are all very reliable.

You should also know that while VW initially was being very difficult regarding repairing HPFP failures under warranty, they seem to have relaxed in this regard, with people who now experience this problem having to put up little or no fight.

In other words, I wouldn't let any horror stories you've read regarding the HPFP stop you from buying a great car.

Regarding your four bullets:

• The first bullet is basically accurate, except that I don't think the problem is limited to the east coast. I believe the location of occurrence is random.
• There have been DSG software updates, and my understanding is that the Golf's DSG operates very well now that VW has had time to perfect the programming. My Golf has a manual tranny, so I can't comment based on experience.
• ULSD is not only recommended by VW, it's the only kind of D2 diesel you can buy. In some states, biodiesel comes as part of a state-mandated blend.
• Agreed with previous post--VW only recommends up to 5% biodiesel. If you live in a state that is moving toward higher percentages of mandated biodiesel (Illinois comes to mind as one such state, but I believe there are others), this might make me choose not to buy a TDI.

Hope this helps.

pcnorton said:

Not to get into the why hpfp fails, just know that when it does you replace everything in the fuel system to include fuel tank. So make sure you change the hpfp at the recommended intervals. Or save up the money to do it yourself when it does happen out of warranty.

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I don't have my owner's manual in front of me, but I'm not aware of an interval for replacing the HP fuel pump itself. The fuel filter, on the other hand, is replaced every 20k.

Thanks for the replies everyone, it makes me feel a little better about looking at these more seriously. I'm also trying to justify performance vs cost... some comparisons seem to show that the TDI is even outperformed by a Focus (http://carsort.com/compare/2011-Volkswagen-Golf-TDI-Diesel-Hatch-2.0L-vs-Ford-Focus-SE -- not great but it's something)... I guess 0-60 isn't everything, but does the TDI outshine the Focus or Mazda 3? Or are they very similar? It's a little hard to justify the extra $5k since I'd never make it up in gas, but people seem to love how it rides and I prefer its look to the others.

sgoldste01 said:

I don't have my owner's manual in front of me, but I'm not aware of an interval for replacing the HP fuel pump itself. The fuel filter, on the other hand, is replaced every 20k.

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I figured there must be some interval for something that would destroy so much when it fails. After all I hear from all those that say that parts fail, it's bad fuel, owner error and not vwdesign error. So there must be some maintenance schedule to change it before failure like a timing belt. Would you wait for it to break and replace everything? If thats the case it seems like poor design. Maybe some vw apologist could answer that one for me. Would like to know because when warranty is up, I'll be trading in.

For the op. I thought hpfp issues were over blown and amplified by the internet. So I bought a 2011 jsw to avoid the 'old' hpfp, got receipts for EVERY tank of fuel and guess what, 25k miles and hpfp blew up. The vehicle is great, reliability and design not so much.

bthumb said:

Thanks for the replies everyone, it makes me feel a little better about looking at these more seriously. I'm also trying to justify performance vs cost... some comparisons seem to show that the TDI is even outperformed by a Focus (http://carsort.com/compare/2011-Volkswagen-Golf-TDI-Diesel-Hatch-2.0L-vs-Ford-Focus-SE -- not great but it's something)... I guess 0-60 isn't everything, but does the TDI outshine the Focus or Mazda 3? Or are they very similar? It's a little hard to justify the extra $5k since I'd never make it up in gas, but people seem to love how it rides and I prefer its look to the others.

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this is where test drives and multiple ones it seems like will sell you the car you really want. it's hard to say that you'll like the performance of one over the other when it's a personal preference just like most things. go out there and test drive all 3 and see. i will say though that you'll be surprised by the tdi's performance. also the dsg is not your standard automatic nor will it drive like one so don't expect it to.

You're right, it's not the 0-60 times that matter. It's the cruising at 2,000 rpms and wanting to pass someone without down shifting (or double down shifting) and being pulled amazingly well.

I'm guessing at 2,000 RPM on the TDI you have the same torque as the Focus at twice the RPM.

So I bought a 2011 jsw to avoid the 'old' hpfp, got receipts for EVERY tank of fuel and guess what, 25k miles and hpfp blew up. The vehicle is great, reliability and design not so much.

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Really enough said there. Take a look at the exploded view of the HPFP and tell me if you want to own that design?

buyer beware.

I've driven my friend's Focus hatchback a couple times and I have to say, I respect the car, it's quiet (much quieter than the Mazda), comfortable and handles well. That said, my issues are that it's a spaceship when you get inside. The stereo is very confusing to use. The color changing LEDs aren't for me but others love it. I don't really care for the look of the car head-on, and the back looks squished. We have had informal drag races, and it's about dead even (I have a Revo Stage 1 tune). The Focus wasn't an option when I was shopping, but I probably would have considered it if it was at that time.

My main objection to the original post is the comment that VW treats the dsg programming the same as Microsoft. Talk about a kick in the groin. Why would anyone compare their product to a microsoft product that is in a constant state of flux.

All of these other posts um it up. Test drive them all on the sa,e day and make your decision. They are a fun car to drive and you'll fell like it is a much beefier car from behind the wheel.

HPFP failures are around 1%. Still kind of high but not that bad when you look at how many new tdis are on the road. We're all hoping and praying that this issue gets resolved soon.

kjclow said:

HPFP failures are around 1%. Still kind of high but not that bad when you look at how many vw tdis are on the road. We're all hoping and praying that this issue gets resolved soon.

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Which problem the blowing up? Or the fact it takes everything with it? I can handle the breakage, parts fail I get that, but take 8k parts and labor with it?

The problem is that when it goes nuclear on you, the metal particles circulate through the whole fuel system, so in order to get rid of all the crud everything needs to be replaced. I am hoping they both figure out the problem, and fess up to it. After many years of diesels, going all the way back to my 79 rabbit, I bailed until VW takes ownership of the problem.

The response from the dealer doesn't really sound like the corporate line, and I'm betting it is just some young sales guy tasked with responding to sale inquiries. As such, it is pretty meaningless. If his boss finds out his comments got posted on a forum, he might even get his pee pee whacked for overstepping his bounds.

The whole HPFP thing is an interesting quandry for new buyers. Although VWNA seems to be honoring more warranty claims than previously, it still seems to be hit or miss based on the dealership.

Until this actually gets resolved, I look at it this way: Anybody going into a VW dealership to purchase a TDI is being asked to "spin the wheel" in a game of chance. The odds might be 100:1 or 500:1 but if you loose, your HPFP sends you a $8K bill.

WEC4104 said:

The odds might be 100:1 or 500:1 but if you loose, your HPFP sends you a $8K bill.

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No. More and more, it looks like the HPFP sends VW an $8k bill (or whatever VW's cost is for this repair; $2k?). I'm not reading stories of dealers not honoring this repair under warranty anymore. So it looks to me like VW is doing the right thing and owning up to the problem. It shouldn't have taken this long, but they seem to have finally gotten there.

I predict that this eventually turns into an extended warranty on the HPFP. In the meantime, VW is doing the repair without argument. Will this ever turn into a recall, with VW replacing the HPFP proactively? I doubt it. The bean counters will probably say that the math doesn't add up (unless it's a safety issue; that could prompt a recall). My guess is that VW will handle these replacements on an as-needed basis.

Regardless, I don't think a prospective TDI customer should avoid the TDI because of the HPFP anymore. If you're one of the unlucky few with this problem, VW will take care of it.

Two things in this thread that seem to be unclear:

1. The fuel pump is not a maintenance part that requires planned replacement after X# of miles like filters and tires and oil and timing belts. It's more like a clutch - abuse it and it will wear out faster, but it should be designed to last the life of the engine.

How do you avoid abusing the HP fuel pump? Don't put gasoline in the tank and don't trust Exxon to add sufficient lubricant back into ULSD to keep your pump from shedding thousands of little particles of itself through the fuel system.

VW is replacing fuel system components beyond the pump so those tiny little metal particles don't end up in that tiny space between the valve seat and the disc.

2. The exhaust filter (DPF) does not distinguish between soot derived from bio and soot derived from ULSD. The biodiesel - slash - DPF issue (As far as I know) is whether or not biodiesel burns "hot enough" to render formerly trapped soot into fly ash.
Personally, I've had no trouble with an occasional tank of high bio concentration, I've been as high as B30. (How high do you have to be to add 5 gallons of B100 in a common rail?) Every tank gets a little bio, and every once in a while a lot of bio.

I'd put whale snot in the tank if I thought it would better protect that overly expensive pump. (I draw the line at baby seal snot)

You can get non bio diesel here in Illinois-there's a thread in the midwest forum section. The states tax policy which affects the price paid at the pump encourage its use by making it cheaper, but it's not mandated-just encouraged by giving financial incentives i.e. making it less expensive.

I evolved form a 2007 Camry Hybrid to 2008 VW Rabbit (Golf) 2.5 to a 2011 Golf TDI. These changes were based on driving enjoyment. The Camry was comfortable and dead-relaible, but very boring and non-engaging to drive. The Rabbit was so much more fun to drive that I was a sucker from that point on for the VW (and most german cars) driving experience, I fell in love with the torquey nature of the TDI, and along with the mileage potential decided to make the switch. The TDI handles almost as well as a GTI (due to chassis tuning and tire configuration) - it seems to handle better than my Alfa Romeo. With that said, the low-tech 2.5 engine is far and away the most reliable VW engine you can buy (parse thru the data in truedelta.com and Consumer Reports and you can see results). The 2.0 Turbo in the GTI and other VWs, while a blast to drive is just "ok" on reliability and the TDI has it's fuel delivery issues. The 2.5 5-cylinder Gasser is a good choice for someone who wants the German driving experience with Japanese-like reliability - you just won't be raving about the 27 MPG mileage. I simply made a decision that the combination of torque, mileage, sophisticated suspension delivering high fun-to-drive quotient, build quality and cargo space flexibility of the Golf TDI made it worth it to have to be more involved about maintenance and where I buy my fuel from. I had seriously considered the JSW but it was just not quite as fun-to-drive and tossable as the Golf - so I gave up some cargo space but also gained more urban parking opportunities. I've had VW's, Audi's, Hondas, Toyotas, etc. The "germans" are definitely not as care-free in their maintenance as the "japanese" but it sure is a pleasure looking 'forward' to 'the drive' every day.

I appreciate the input from both sides. I'm not so much worried about having to have a fuel system replaced, but I would be more worried about where it happened. If I'm driving long distance and not familiar with the area's diesel stations, and the car broke down that would bother me quite a bit. Since I'm not rolling in money, it seems too unpredictable for me to drop $4k extra at this point in time when I only drive about 10k miles a year. Maybe if diesel prices come down at all. I might have to wait a bit and see if anything comes of the investigation.

Any car can break down anywhere - You don't know whether or not Mercedes have a low percentage failure rate on their braking system, or if Chrysler has their transmission problems behind them, or if the Chevy Volt has optimistically claimed a 45 mile battery.

When I was in the market for a new car, I wanted a passenger car with a diesel. I bought the Jetta because it was on the lot, it was priced considerably less than the Mercedes I ALMOST bought, and the damn thing had enough balls off the green light to impress a Mini Cooper owner.

OK, so I found out 6 months later that there's a chance my fuel pump will leave me stranded.

40,000 miles later, I'm still getting where I want to go.

Worrying works - most of what I worry about never happens.

3516ACERT said:

40,000 miles later, I'm still getting where I want to go.

Worrying works - most of what I worry about never happens.

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Amen to that. I would not recommend looking at a forum to get an idea of the reliability of any vehicle. Forums are for mods, issues, and BS'ing with like minded individuals. Very rarely do people come onto a forum to say something possitive. Also, I would never mention the HPFP in any post that you do not want hijacked into one of the hundereds of HPFP threads on here. Anyway, I love my 2010 Golf TDI. 34000 miles and never an issue and I drive it like I stole it. Not interested in babying it to squeeze a couple extra MPG's out of it. Something to be said about a car that can be driven in SoCal traffic and still get 40+ mpg. But that being said sometimes Cars, like computers, are just lemons. Every once in a while one comes off the line and it just has problems from the get go. Luck of the draw on that one. I have had many cars over the last 6 years and this one is by far my favorite. Will keep it till it dies and God willing that is a long way off.