Real World MPG - 6 speed Manual

40X40 said:

Please, no tricks with resetting the MFD on the fly.... report only pen and paper results to maintain credibility.

Thanks,

Bill

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I'll repeat my post in its entirety so that the people on the short bus can read it again and see how inflammatory it is.

Note that I did not ask anything but that a single measuring process be used, that being PEN AND PAPER.

BTW, for the first 20,000 miles from new my own car averaged 42 MPG, P/P.

Bill

gergg keep posting I'm listening... I'm ready to see numbers from some hardcore hypermilers. I have read on CleanMPG that they got 67mpg on a trip through TN mountains. So it sounds like it can be done.

I'll repeat my post in its entirety so that the people on the short bus can read it again and see how inflammatory it is.

Note that I did not ask anything but that a single measuring process be used, that being PEN AND PAPER

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Come on man, pen and paper is so old-school, I use a calculator to get my mpg's......actually I usually figure it out in my own pea-brain when I'm driving home after filling up(rounding off of course, easier that way then I confirm real calculations with a scientific mind...a calculator) It's all good though, if only you would take a step back, read some more of my posts, then I think you would see that what I am doing is exactly what you are professing......except I don't use pen and paper, but rather a calculator and my brain. Seriously, enjoy your car, and please do post some calculations of your own, it can only help others....I hope you and everyone else has a great day, I know I will.

gergg keep posting I'm listening... I'm ready to see numbers from some hardcore hypermilers. I have read on CleanMPG that they got 67mpg on a trip through TN mountains. So it sounds like it can be done.

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Well, I didn't think 60mpg's was possible early on, but it just might be under ideal conditions/situations. From what I've experienced 55mpg's at 65mph on the highway is a real(even conservative) expectation, I've taken hand-calculated results and these numbers are there, from what I have seen around here it is not uncommon for guys to get these types of mpg's on these cars.

Yup...I'm "!#@%! R I D I C U L O U S" (wow...typing that out took longer than what I want to say...talk about ridiculous!)

We're all just trying to find clarity. Gergg's enthusiastic post was mis-leading to me, as well...I kinda/sorta knew what he meant, but I'm glad he clarified it in a later post. Nobody said he was lying.

Too bad he took offense at being pressed to clarify.

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Uh....no comment, it's just tdiatlast doing his thing.

Ever hear of "your mileage may vary"?... how's that for clarity?

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Finally some sanity, why didn't I think of that

Typical TDI Club banter... somebody says something... another argues against it. If you are that damn worried about whether or not somebody's "lying"... live with them. Calculate their fuel mileage FOR them...

Some of you are !#@%! R I D I C U L O U S... it's a damn car. Just drive it. Leave the guy alone... you are lucky he posts his mileage statistics on here anyways.

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Yeah, this

OK, this thread has fallen into the dreaded gutter, I'm done responding, how about we just report mpg's, if you don't like what someone else posts ignore it and move on.

I too enjoy your posts. I think Volkswagen has really hit it out of the park with the 2012 Passat 6sp TDI.

rotarykid said:

The only drivers I have seen getting anything close to EPA rating are drivers that don't know how to drive a stick and chose a DSG for this reason.

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LOL! What a rude comment/ASSumption to make. Shows your quality as a person, or should we say lack thereof.

Real world MPGs through 32k miles, 60+ fill ups in my Fuelly.com signature.

AND I just noticed this was a Passat thread. My bad!

gergg said:

Dang, so sorry, can you please send me the official manual on how to hand-calculate mpg's and compare to the MFD readout, I'm really lost and can't figure that out on my own ...... I already said in numerous previous posts that I hand calculate EVERY time I fill up and my MFD and ACTUAL calculations are ALWAYS within 1 mpg......So, if the MFD calculations are accurate throughout a tank, why would you assume they are not accurate over a 160 mile trip? By the way, I have hand checked my partial tanks to MFD calculations over a partial tank, they too were very accurate. Try it out for yourself and report the findings, it would be interesting to hear some other results.


Oh boy, you're on to my tricks.....I think I've reported more "pen & paper" calculations on the 2012 Passat than anybody on here, you guys act as if the MFD calculations are coming from a 1968 Mustang and not even attached to this car..... I've already compared my MFD to actual hand calculations over 11,000 miles so I'm totally comfortable with my reports here, Oh, and if you don't like them then ignore them......Geez!

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LOL! I am not going to ignore invalid statements of fact.

I have verified the MFD results, granted with all my 4 other VW TDI's. The MFD NEVER matched the actual, real, calculated MPG. It really varies if your driving situation varies a lot with say, traffic.

If you want to give US valid, scientific results, top off the tank. Run the trip and fill back up at the same pump with the same amount of topping off.

Do that and I will take it seriously, otherwise it is just one big FISH Story.

FormerOwner said:

Typical TDI Club banter... somebody says something... another argues against it. If you are that damn worried about whether or not somebody's "lying"... live with them. Calculate their fuel mileage FOR them...

Some of you are !#@%! R I D I C U L O U S... it's a damn car. Just drive it. Leave the guy alone... you are lucky he posts his mileage statistics on here anyways.

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Former. Many non TDI owners come on here for FACTS while doing research.

Statements we make need to be very clear, otherwise we end up with a disappointed VW TDI owner that then trashes them to all their friends and the public.

So why we think this is just our own private bbq having beers it is not. I know I made my FIRST TDI decision back in 2000 based on this site and others.

When I saw all the gloom and doom complaints I almost did NOT buy the Jetta. Luckily I did and have proven many of those complaints wrong.

gergg said:

OK, this thread has fallen into the dreaded gutter, I'm done responding, how about we just report mpg's, if you don't like what someone else posts ignore it and move on.

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LOL! I am taking MY ball home and quitting because I was challenged. Waaahhhhhh.

Tom... I too used this place for facts & stats. I know your position well on this topic. But it seems that many here from the "old guard" {they know who they are} are putting on too much of their favorite cologne while trying to impress us: arrogance.

I've been a lurker and a member since about 2001 (I had another screen name previously before I sold my MK IV wagon)... I've been around diesels for over 20 years. I have enjoyed GTG's and also anecdotal informative discussions both online and in person. I'm no guru per se, but I know who to speak to, what to ask, etc. simply because of reading and asking questions.

That said, it disappoints me to see a "veteran" member act silly towards somebody that perhaps they don't know at all... except for an online message board. I know my opinion isn't worth much to that person; they are a KIA (know it all). So be it. The whole purpose of the message board is to share information (as we have all done) and to help each other out. But for "veteran" members to act silly and be arrogant, and vain towards posters is R I D I C U L O U S. Know why? Because when they were "rookies" many "veterans" who acted silly to them are not out there posting on here much at all anymore; many have been BANNED. We know who they are.

As one of the 'old guys' around here once posted, "you are welcome to your own opinions, but not your own facts.".

When you exaggerate or post unreal claims, you not only undermine the credibility of the entire club, but you totally destroy your own.

Think before posting.

Bill

OK, so can you guys stop fighting and start posting more numbers -- properly topped off tank, pen and paper or calculator or spread sheet, whatever you use to come up with a real world mpg number for your new Passats with 6 speed manual? Include your MFD averages, too, for a comparison (the one on my car is surprisingly accurate, but not completely), just let us know that's where the number comes from. A lot of us are very curious about these new cars and it would be a shame to let a perfectly valid thread deteriorate.

Holy inflated MPG, Batman! 29 argumentative posts over a simple request for clarification.
Thanks for the calming post, jbright!! The previous 28 or so should just be deleted, as they're unworthy of this site.

Ok... from now on... just fill up the damn tank to the neck so that you cannot physically get any more Diesel into the vehicle... divide mileage by gallons pumped into your car.

I don't give a rip how you do it... if you post what YOUR car does... I'll accept your stats as valid until a guru says otherwise... afterall... they know best.

TomB said:

rotarykid said:

The only drivers I have seen getting anything close to EPA rating are drivers that don't know how to drive a stick and chose a DSG for this reason..

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LOL! What a rude comment/ASSumption to make. Shows your quality as a person, or should we say lack thereof.

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I'm not saying anything that the facts don't back up. The fact that Automatic only drivers, drivers that don't know how to drive a manual trans so are missing many of these learned driving skills get the lowest mpgs in anything they drive. These drivers just push the peddles without a thought of the energy they are using and wasting many times always get the poorest mpgs in what ever they drive. Do you dispute this fact????? I've got over 30 years of data to back this up.

Having the skill of driving a manual effects how someone drives anything they drive automatic or manual. In my real world experience drivers once they learn to handle a manual trans vehicle become more efficient drivers in anything they drive, especially on city loops. I have 30+ years of teaching drivers to drive manual trans vehicles of all sizes and power to back up my statement.

My current wife is at least 6-10 mpg more efficient in anything she drives since I taught her to control what she drives with the transmission and throttle, a manual trans learned driving skill( documented by me filling the car to the rim every tank over two years & ~25k miles of records in two different cars ).

She is more efficient in everything she drives today from the new driving skills she has learned in controlling the car and from the extra attention she now pays to all driving conditions. She went from tank after tank only in the high 10s city to today in the same car on the exact same drive the same time of day to mid to high 20s. The only difference are the fact that she now pays closer attention to driving conditions from new skills she has gotten from driving my manual trans diesels in the same driving situations. I have the same documtation from previous relationships where I had to teach the woman in my life to drive my cars which are manuals.

No offence, but I really don't care what anyone says. A driver is forced to pay closer attention to their driving when they are in charge of what gear they need to be in minute by minute and second by second when in traffic. The driver must be thinking ahead speed wise and gear wise so as not to choke the car down or to get caught in the wrong gear for conditions they are faced with. This also leads to the driver learning the skill of using "N" in between gears when no acceleration is needed. These shifting and driving skills related to driving a stick can be used skills in city traffic in an automatic to save fuel. But if the driver doesn't have these skills related to driving a stick they don't know how to do these things so they waste more fuel in any automatic, especially on city loops. That is what my quoted statement is saying.

So, without exception every last one of the drivers I have taught to drive a stick gained mpgs in what ever they drove. I have figures from before and after for the last 30+ years of teaching people to row their own gears to back up this statement.

Sorry if I offended you........no offense was intended.

I couldn't stay away, brought my ball back to play some more. It is raining here and I'm really bored

I wonder if we can agree do do this......Instead of screaming foul like a bunch of lunatics, I'd like to see some of you dissenting gents with similar vehicles(if you actually own them) drive them on the highway with cruise set at 65mph at 60+ degree temps, over 150+ miles, and report your findings.....Why wouldn't you get similar mpg's to what I reported, try it, others have come up with low 50's driving 70-75mph on the highway, that seems to make sense compared to my findings. While you are at it compare your hand-calculated results to the MFD readings.........that would be a heck of a lot more helpful than what is currently taking place.

So please shut up until you have completed this task, go quickly now and report back soon.....just kidding, relax, it's a joke.....cheers!

First topped off tank to topped off tank. 640 miles 12.391 gallons. Temps from 68 on the way there Friday, to 52, up and over a 4000 foot gain in elevation and down mountain range each way. Trip up said 52.1 mpg, trip back said 51.6 mpg. Pencil and paper says 51.65 mpg, 70 % of the trip was done at 70-75 MPH. I know I had 3, maybe 4 DPF re generations on the trip. Holy smokes does it smell bad the first couple of times.

VW just shut the pump off on the first burp when they filled the tank up for me at the dealership as a new car. 140 mile on 4.8 gallons, to the brim? I doubt it, probably about 2 gallons short.

Hey Niner... damn good mileage. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise. Keep it up!

Niner said:

First topped off tank to topped off tank. 640 miles 12.391 gallons. Temps from 68 on the way there Friday, to 52, up and over a 4000 foot gain in elevation and down mountain range each way. Trip up said 52.1 mpg, trip back said 51.6 mpg. Pencil and paper says 51.65 mpg, 70 % of the trip was done at 70-75 MPH. I know I had 3, maybe 4 DPF re generations on the trip. Holy smokes does it smell bad the first couple of times.
VW just shut the pump off on the first burp when they filled the tank up for me at the dealership as a new car. 140 mile on 4.8 gallons, to the brim? I doubt it, probably about 2 gallons short.

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This is a good example of a reputable report. It is a bit long, but so what?

I would make sure to mention in each report what model of car (year, transmission, etc) and where I was at (I-70 in CO to UT, etc) and weather (temp).

Nice report!

Bill

Rotarykid,

The whole point is that some of us CHOOSE an automatic DSG over a manual, but are just as knowledgeble and qualified of drivers as you are.

Your attempted to blanket stereotype everyone with a DSG or low MPG with a manual as a poor driver was just rude.

BTW Hypermilers are NOT better drivers. They are just better at getting more MPG from every gallon, but at what expense?

Coasting downhill in neutral (which will overheat auto trans including the DSG), going 10 MPH under the speed limit, accelerating so slowly as to block traffic and miss the next traffic light and worst of all modifying their cars illegally by removing emissions control devices to get this extra few MPG.

gergg said:

I couldn't stay away, brought my ball back to play some more. It is raining here and I'm really bored

I wonder if we can agree do do this......Instead of screaming foul like a bunch of lunatics, I'd like to see some of you dissenting gents with similar vehicles(if you actually own them) drive them on the highway with cruise set at 65mph at 60+ degree temps, over 150+ miles, and report your findings.....Why wouldn't you get similar mpg's to what I reported, try it, others have come up with low 50's driving 70-75mph on the highway, that seems to make sense compared to my findings. While you are at it compare your hand-calculated results to the MFD readings.........that would be a heck of a lot more helpful than what is currently taking place.

So please shut up until you have completed this task, go quickly now and report back soon.....just kidding, relax, it's a joke.....cheers!

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I will when I FINALLY get through 1 tank of fuel. Dang it takes a long time to get through them.

Sorry to say, I won't be able to reproduce your test any time soon since Seattle won't hit 60 until probably May.

Remember the TDI's very seldom get up to the full 190 degrees full operating temperatures in climates other than the warmer areas of the country. Even though the temp show 190 actual coolant temp readings has shown variations that are less than this.

Oh, and I routinely see 48 MPG on the MFD at highway speed, but consumption vets out that I am NOT getting that much overall. I will report the final numbers.

There is just not enough data to support a claim that the EPA is wrong here. One guy/gal is claiming 92.7 mpg on 5 fill ups. This is why I keep Bullsh*t on speed dial. Lots of people in the mid 30s mpg. In any event, once there is a statistically relevant sampling, arguments can be made. In the mean time, it would be helpful if people would stop hitting the 'hate' button and just enjoy their car.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/volkswagen/passat/2012/diesel%20l4

I have chosen DSG in past vehicles, so that in an emergency, my wife could drive it. Sadly most people don't care about the energy they consume unless it hurts them enough in the purse to take notice. The group you single out probably wouldn't drive a TDI anyway.

thebigarniedog said:

There is just not enough data to support a claim that the EPA is wrong here. One guy/gal is claiming 92.7 mpg on 5 fill ups. This is why I keep Bullsh*t on speed dial. Lots of people in the mid 30s mpg. In any event, once there is a statistically relevant sampling, arguments can be made. In the mean time, it would be helpful if people would stop hitting the 'hate' button and just enjoy their car.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/volkswagen/passat/2012/diesel%20l4

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If you looked at the data entries of that individual, you'll note that he is inconsistent in providing mileage and data for every single fill up... since he misses input on fillups, it skews his MPG higher, since he is reading off of the total miles on the odometer. His data is a flyer, statistically, so take it with a grain of salt.