TDI Used Oil Lab Analyses Results & Discussions

TooSlick · Apr 29, 2010

TempoR,

What sort of after market additive did you dump in your VW 502.00/505.01 oil? Or is this actually an API/CI-4+, HD diesel oil?

Levels of Ca/Zn/P are much too high for the fully formulated oil to meet the chemical limits of the 505.01 Spec.

TS

temporaptor · Apr 30, 2010

strange, Like i posted this was my first oil change since i bought the car. I Recall being told that Pentosyn was used. I never put anything in the oil. Is all that Bad?? or just not the chemical make up of Pentosyn?

2footbraker · Apr 30, 2010

I think it's an issue with your lab.

TomB · Apr 30, 2010

silverbox said:
That is a lot of zinc... is this really a 505.01 or is there more zinc added?

I average 900 on the Pentosyn with Blackstone Labs. When running Elf CRV 506.01 I saw a range of 1300 for Zinc.

MonsterTDI09 · May 3, 2010

Here is my first UOA on my 09 Jetta at 9888, let me know what you think.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/4847/SKMBT_C65010050313000.pdf

brons2 · May 3, 2010

MonsterTDI09 said:
Here is my first UOA on my 09 Jetta at 9888, let me know what you think.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/4847/SKMBT_C65010050313000.pdf

Is this the factory fill?

Viscosity is low at 10.38, if it's really 15w40. I thought the 507 oils were mostly 5w30 though. In that case 10cst is normal for Xw30. Insoluables were good for 10K miles at 0.3.

Hard to get a read on the wear metals if it's the FF. Iron is only about twice normal so that's not so bad for FF. Copper and aluminum are high but that's to be expected.

Overall my opinion is this looks like a pretty normal UOA for FF on VW TDI's. This is not a professional opinion, and YMMV.

Are you going to also post this on BITOG?

TooSlick · May 3, 2010

Monster,

Looks normal for the CBEA factory fill, including the presence of potassium. This oil would be an SAE 5w-30 and not a 15w-40....

TS

temporaptor · May 3, 2010

Well I found out my oil was not Pentosyn, oops I had bad info. It is Petro Canada Duron 5W-40 full synthetic. CI-4+

TooSlick · May 4, 2010

Temp,

That makes much more sense...the additive levels are too high for even an API/CJ-4 formulation.

The Duron 5w-40 is an excellent product for older TDI's, but does not carry the VW 505.01 Spec for the PD engines.

TS

TornadoRed · May 4, 2010

MonsterTDI09 said:
Here is my first UOA on my 09 Jetta at 9888, let me know what you think.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/4847/SKMBT_C65010050313000.pdf

I took one look at the high potassium levels and I knew it was the factory fill.

This is an entirely normal UOA for a new TDI. If I were you, I'd skip testing at 20k and maybe pick it up again after 30k miles. That would then be a good baseline for the future. If you decide to change to a different oil, then maybe wait for the 2nd oil drain after the switch, to get rid of most of the residual old oil and wear metals.

TornadoRed · May 4, 2010

temporaptor said:
Well I found out my oil was not Pentosyn, oops I had bad info. It is Petro Canada Duron 5W-40 full synthetic. CI-4+

It doesn't meet any VW specs, but since your PD engine is out of warranty it is not a major deal. Duron 5w40 is a pretty good oil for all the TDI engines except the current generation. We do not have enough information on the new engines to offer any advice about non-spec oils.

fancy_dancer · May 5, 2010

Second Used Oil Analysis at 49,139 on 2009 JSW

Both the original analysis at 5,150 miles and the just-completed at 49,139 show way high AL values. Should I be worried? Dealer oil changes at approx. 6K, 12K, 20K, 30K and 40K. All receipts show correct oil. Have used only ULSD from various brands.

Here's the best that I could figure out how to do with the results.

<img src="http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=65393&cat=500&ppuser=67539" \>

Please, let me know how I can post .PDF or .DOC better next time? Thanks!

brons2 · May 5, 2010

I personally don't think 12ppm AL over 9232 miles is that big of a deal. That does not constitute "way high AL values". This looks like a good report to me.

I agree with Blackstone, you can run this oil longer. Insoluables were at 0.2, flashpoint 430, viscosity at 11.7 and TBN 3.5. All very good readings.

Wboer · May 8, 2010

Valvoline Durablend 5W40 505.01

Hello everyone!

My first post, i'm new here and from Holland.

This is the analysis of my Audi A3 1.9 tdi 130hp PD engine.
173.000miles, lube time was 9000miles and 4 months old.

The comment of the analysis says: (in Dutch) Everything looks fine.

I like the oil, the engine uses no oil and runs great, and the oil is not very expensive.

What do you think? Looks to me it can last longer?

Oil: Valvoline Durablend Diesel 5W40 VW505.01 with original oil filter

Typical Properties
5W-40
Viscosity, mm2/s @ 100 ºC
14.0
Viscosity, mm2/s @ 40 ºC
84
Viscosity Index
169
Viscosity, mPa.s -25°C
Viscosity, mPa’s -30°C.
<6600
Sulphated Ash, wt. %
0.8
TAN; mg KOH/g (ASTM D-664)
2.7
TBN; mg KOH/g (ASTM D-2896)
7.6
Pour Point, ºC
-42
Specific Gravity @ 15/15ºC
0.851
Flash Point, COC, ºC
234

TooSlick · May 8, 2010

Results look fine - you could probably run 20% longer if you wished, under the same conditions. I'd use a lower TBN cutoff of 3.0 and a soot cutoff of 1.0% (which you won't reach).

Note that this Valvoline product uses the same basic additive chemistry as many other VW 505.01 oils (from Motul, Total, Amsoil, etc)

TS

Bob_Fout · May 8, 2010

TS, over on BITOG I commented on the fuel and visco. High fuel with mostly highway driving? Visco down to 12.4.

Wboer · May 8, 2010

Thanks, I wil do that.

I changed with Kendall Victory synthetic vw505.01 to try.
Now the engine is consuming more oil, and the oil is more expensive.

I think I switch back to the Valvoline.

hid3 · May 8, 2010

Wboer, what is your driving style? What average trip distance? Is the car being driven more city or highway? What ratio? Thanks.

Wboer · May 8, 2010

Driving style is vigorous but on the highway a constant speed of 120-145Kmh (80-95mph) mostly longer distances, average trip distance 45 miles

Not much city driving.

TooSlick · May 8, 2010

I'd say the fuel is normal if he's using a bio-diesel blend. Otherwise it might be good to clean the fuel injectors and see if that helps....

TS

hid3 · May 9, 2010

I wouldn't say that the result is fantastic for this oil. Since it has done 14'400 kilimeters on the sample mostly highway traffic, with only city traffic I guess it would have been overdue.

brons2 · May 9, 2010

Wboer this looks like a good report to me. High fuel for highway driving as noted by Bob_fout. Maybe influenced by being a PD130 which we don't have in the USA? Anyways, I would stick to this oil under the parameters as noted by TooSlick. Probably good for a couple thousand more KM.

brons2 · May 9, 2010

hid3 said:
I wouldn't say that the result is fantastic for this oil. Since it has done 14'400 kilimeters on the sample mostly highway traffic, with only city traffic I guess it would have been overdue.

Based on what parameter? Iron? Fuel? Slight viscosity decrease?

VW507 which is approved for the PD, starts off in the high 30wt range which is about what this oil has sheared to. I don't personally think it's a problem.

Perhaps give some attention to the injectors as TooSlick noted.

TooSlick · May 9, 2010

The iron level of 42 ppm after 9k miles is perfectly normal for a PD engine and all the other wear metals are at trace levels. If thinning of the oil were an issue, you'd see higher bearing and ring/cylinder wear, which is simply not present in these results.

High fuel dilution under these conditions points to marginal combustion efficiency and perhaps a poor injector spray pattern, or even a clogged air filter. I'd run some strong fuel injector cleaner through the system and make sure you're getting enough airflow. (Note that this engine has 173k miles on it, which is plenty of time for normal degradation of the injectors.)

TS

hid3 · May 9, 2010

brons2 said:
Based on what parameter? Iron? Fuel? Slight viscosity decrease?

VW507 which is approved for the PD, starts off in the high 30wt range which is about what this oil has sheared to. I don't personally think it's a problem.

Perhaps give some attention to the injectors as TooSlick noted.

Actually slighlty low Zn/P levels caught my eye. With only highway traffic, I expected them to be slightly higher.

Iron. Right. OK. What numbers of iron would I have with the same oil, same drain interval but 100% city driving? 250+ ppm? 33-35 this is what I'd expect. Yeah, I know this is not a big difference, but still we're discussing expectations

Fuel! Why it is there?!

Let's leave alone 507.00 and other long-life oils. They have completely different chemistry and doesn't compare here.

Wboer · May 10, 2010

The airfilter is 30k km old, replace it every 45k km.
No bio diesel fuel.

I have good experiences with LiquiMoly Superdiesel additiv, so i'm going to try that.

What do you think about the fact this is a semi synth oil, what should be the difference with a full synth?

TooSlick · May 11, 2010

Additives such as Ca/Mg/Zn/P, show up in spectrographic oil analysis even after they have been rendered inactive in performing their function. So you can't judge the condition of a used oil sample by this method.

Note that there are some additives such as boron (in the form of a borate ester) and to a lesser extent molybdenum, that do show depletion from their virgin levels. Typically when the level of boron (in ppm), has dropped by over 2/3 from it's initial value, the oil should be changed.

TS

finklejag · May 11, 2010

Hi guys. I'm a regular on Vortex and Bitog. I thought I would register on TDICLUB to post this for you guys. I sent this VOA in to Blackstone.

I will be using this oil in my 2010 GTI 2.0T. I have done some research about 504/507 oils. It looks like the 504 oil can reduce valve deposits up to 42% compared to a 502 oils in a direct injection engine.

It looks like Blackstone's viscosities and flashpoint are lower then what Pentosin has on their data sheet.

Pento Super Performance III 5W-30 504.00/507.00 spec

http://www.pentosin.com.br/flexxtrader/data/usf/Pento%20Super%20Performance%20III%205W-30_GB.pdf?sid=54015b6bca1688f406e6de5ae2969922

silverbox · May 11, 2010

nice of you to post this

MacBuckeye · May 11, 2010

3rd OC on my 2009 TDI

Here is my most recent OC from my 2009 TDI. Using nothing but the Castrol 507. During this last run, I changed out the oil filter after about 6,000 miles. Didn't need to add any oil. Drove normal. Car runs like a champ. This is my first EVER 10K mile oil change. For an old school guy like me, I'm stoked with the results... I think. Hopefully the AL count will go down more. Would welcome any comments.

TDI Used Oil Lab Analyses Results & Discussions

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