Mazda SkyActiv Diesel Engine

2Goldens · May 13, 2010

Mazda is a good vehicle but I don't think I would jump on it when it first hits the market. Just hope it is as good as a VW.

masterflex164 · May 13, 2010

It's kind of sad that lots of people are ready to give up their VWs, for Mazdas. Mazdas are great (I love the 3 and 6), but we have to look at reality. I doubt Mazda will actually go thru with diesels in the US. Honda, Acura, Toyota, and Nissan promised us diesels, where are they? The only ones actually delivering on their diesel promises are MB, BMW, and VW/Audi. I don't see any asian maker doing this

pgenis · May 13, 2010

agreed

mickeyyeety said:
snip The only ones actually delivering on their diesel promises are MB, BMW, and VW/Audi. snip ..

That is why I got VAG-COM, repair/service manuals for both Jetta and Passat and three reputable repair facilities that are not affiliated in any way with VW North America or VW AG for that matter. And I also have two, oh-no, three part-time jobs to pay for all these luxuries.
I drove Mitsubishi diesel truck in Finland during cold winters. It had glow plugs, just like most VWs sold in the US and had no problems starting after the glow plugs light went off (it was -250C outside). The owner could not recall last time the truck had to have repairs. He was doing the service himself - oil, filters, fluids, brakes etc. He looked at me with a question as to why would I buy all these things for our cars - Mitsubishi just runs, no problem. It is five years old and has just over 100K miles.

TheLongshot · May 15, 2010

booty said:
Mazda needs to sell diesels in the USA like a Mazda 3 or Mazda 6 with a diesel that is optimized for mileage, not power. Also make sure a stick shift is available across the product line. VW has lost their way with the current TDI line that gets 10 to 15% worse mileage than the ALH models. This is the reason my daily driver today is a Altima instead of a Jetta.
If they would make a Mazda 6 that gets in the high 40's on the highway I would buy it.

Problem with that is that it is against Mazda's marketing. It is all about the "zoom-zoom". My wife's 3 is definitely along that philosophy. My wife thinks my Jetta is a boat in comparison to her "zippy" car.

I wouldn't mind if Mazda did go more performance oriented, if just because it is the diesel reputation that they sacrifice performance for mileage.

truman · May 15, 2010

Mazda definitely has sportier handling than VW. I don't think a diesel would subtract from Zoom Zoom. Mazda also seems to be Ford's leading edge.

fastalan · May 15, 2010

I think Mazda will have to bring some kind of diesel offerings to N.America very very soon in order to meet their own CAFE standard .... unlike Nissan/Toyota/Honda, Mazda does not seem to have any kind of EV or Hybrid technologies in their short term product plan. They will probably have no choice but to soley base their effort with highly efficient newer gas/diesel IC engines (those Sky concept engines). Good diesel engines will allow them to sell more bigger cars, wagons and lux SUVs with better profit.

leicaman · May 15, 2010

In regards to other makers bringing out diesels, the proof will be when it arrives at the dealership. Other than that it is cheap talk.

DnA Diesel · May 15, 2010

leicaman said:
In regards to other makers bringing out diesels, the proof will be when it arrives at the dealership. Other than that it is cheap talk.

Agree. Talk is cheap. Deeds speak.

fastalan · May 16, 2010

Then I hope Mazda does bring in their diesel passenger cars and SUVs into the north American market very soon. The modern clean diesel car industry can't rely on the already sold older diesel cars and from BMW/Audi/VW/Merc selling only a couple thousands diesel cars a month to justify improving the infrastructure, eg. more efficient higher quality diesel fuel and wider availability of biodiesel. Besides, more competitions from Mazda will only urge the Germans to bring in even better products, they got tons of good diesel goodies all over the world, just not letting us a chance to buy them. When Mazda starting shipping diesel CX-7/Mazda3/5, we'll see similiar product response from VW, isn't that what we were looking for?

It's been too easy for VW to sell their diesel cars, they have no competition and that is not necessarily a good sign.

DnA Diesel · May 16, 2010

fastalan said:
Then I hope Mazda does bring in their diesel passenger cars and SUVs into the north American market very soon. The modern clean diesel car industry can't rely on the already sold older diesel cars and from BMW/Audi/VW/Merc selling only a couple thousands diesel cars a month to justify improving the infrastructure, eg. more efficient higher quality diesel fuel and wider availability of bodiless. Besides, more competitions from Mazda will only urge the Germans to bring in even better products, they got tons of good diesel goodies all over the world, just not letting us a chance to buy them. It's been too easy for VW to sell their diesel cars, they have no competition and that is not necessarily a good sign.

Not quite sure I'm following you. Are you saying that the German Big-Three would bring 'better' diesels if Mazda entered the N.A. market?

The "Große Deutche Drei" already make excellent diesel products...dare I say 'class-leading' products. They have done some tweaks to re-enter the N.A. market (predominantly SCR technology, which is now reverse propogating through the European and world market as other emissions standards are tightened.)

Particularly while MB and BMW were away, the reason VW had a "too easy" time selling diesels was because...well, they were the only ones doing it. I suppose you're right about it being 'easy' when you're the only one selling something and there is a market for it, albeit quirky and small.

Regards

cmitchell · May 16, 2010

DnA Diesel said:
Not quite sure I'm following you. Are you saying that the German Big-Three would bring 'better' diesels if Mazda entered the N.A. market?

I think he means a better selection of diesel models... not better diesels.

fastalan · May 16, 2010

Another advantage of having more major auto makers bringing in more clean diesel passengers car is to convince EPA to change or update the way they test diesel cars. We all know the figure posted by EPA for 2.0 CR diesel in new generation Golf/Jetta is way off, especially highway figure. Does EPA even give a damn about VW's complain? No. They don't care at this time. However, with more industry voices, who says the figure can not be revised?

Just today, another car blog reports that Ford's new Fiesta has received official EPA FE at 40mpg highway. While I totally believe the new Fiesta is capable of matching this figure in real life, doesn't this figure makes TDI's FE figure pretty unimpressive on paper? For the general consumers that only look at the FE figure sticker on the window, how could clean diesel sell?

fastalan · May 16, 2010

cmitchell said:
I think he means a better selection of diesel models... not better diesels.

Yes, I meant more selection.

Selection is a very critical factor. Few years ago, I took a deep look at a replacement for our company Aerostar 4.0L. We needed something that can offer enough room in a smaller, cheap to maintain and more fuel efficient package. The Aerostar was back in 1993-4, the smaller and more fuel efficient package compared to Ford's full size van, and it was build like a rock, had good power and very cheap to maintain.

We narrowed down to a few small vans and small SUVs and at the end we took a look at Mazda 5. It looked reliability, good design, smaller but enough space, just what we needed. But that poor engine choice really turned me away and made me decided to keep the Aerostar. 150 hp at 6500rpm, peak torque at 4500 rpm? Who made the decision to put this engine into the Mazda 5? Had that Mazda 5 incorporated a fuel efficient diesel four with lots of low end torque, we'd bought it already. Just few months ago, it was the Ford Transit Connect that cought my attention at replacing the Aerostar. Again, wrong engine.

Now Mazda won't be able to sell me another diesel vehicle even if they have something new since I have the Golf wagon TDI, and with a trailor, it can handle 85% of our duties. The Aerostar with or w/o a trailer would easily take care of the rest when needed.

This is real life example, both Mazda and Ford lost my business due to poor engine choice selection (it was more like "no selection"), they simply put in the wrong engine in the right car and left me with no choice but to walk away.

masterflex164 · May 17, 2010

It seems that the Japanese have always been all talk and no show, unlike the Germans. VW promised us the CRD TDI, and it took them awhile to make it, but at least it's here, I mean, it's IN most of our driveways. But look at Acura. They claimed they couldn't make an automatic transmission that met standards, but in reality, they decided to make the Insight, which is a POS and MUCH MUCH cheaper, but that isn't the point. When you promise it, you should follow thru, which is something the Germans have been doing, NOT the Japanese. (Examples: Acura diesel, toyota tundra diesel, Maxima Diesel)

Then how the hell was VW, BMW, Audi, Merc able to do it? The BMW even has twin-turbos and is faster than probably every Acura out there...

DnA Diesel · May 18, 2010

mickeyyeety said:
It seems that the Japanese have always been all talk and no show, unlike the Germans. VW promised us the CRD TDI, and it took them awhile to make it, but at least it's here, I mean, it's IN most of our driveways. But look at Acura. They claimed they couldn't make an automatic transmission that met standards, but in reality, they decided to make the Insight, which is a POS and MUCH MUCH cheaper, but that isn't the point. When you promise it, you should follow thru, which is something the Germans have been doing, NOT the Japanese. (Examples: Acura diesel, toyota tundra diesel, Maxima Diesel)

Then how the hell was VW, BMW, Audi, Merc able to do it? The BMW even has twin-turbos and is faster than probably every Acura out there...

One of the factors is that the German Big 3 (VWAG, MB, BMW) were developing diesel solutions to EURO 5/6 standards anyway. They then accelerated (and tweaked) them to comply with the EPA's Tier 2 Bin 5 standard, which has similar (slightly higher) particulate limits, but is two times more stringent than EURO 6 regarding NOx limits.

It is the reduction of the NOx emissions that is the tough one to meet, particularly as EPA T2B5 is twice as restrictive as EURO 6. In the end, the three German makers did it and they will do well by their efforts, I believe. Even diesels in Europe will get much cleaner (NOx-wise) by the time 2014 rolls around and they must comply with EURO 6 emissions standards.

The nice part is that while other makers are working hard to be compliant, VWAG, MB and BMW will be further refining their products' efficiencies and performance levels...already very nice now!

Regards

DPM · May 18, 2010

Surely everyone selling into the Eurozone is moving towards Euro5/6, not just the "big 3"

DnA Diesel · May 19, 2010

DPM said:
Surely everyone selling into the Eurozone is moving towards Euro5/6, not just the "big 3"

Yes, they have to, no choice, but the 3 took the additional step of further reducing NOx to EPA standards well in advance of Euro 5/6.

At the moment, it seems that SCR is about the only reasonable technology on engines bigger than about 2 litres displacement that can achieve te desired NOx reduction, and that's the technology that is being 'backwards propogated' to Europe. It's on the three's cars here, as well as on-road trucks. I was recently talking with a trucker at a truck stop, and commented that his exhaust stack was as clean as my 335d's exhaust tips. We spoke about SCR and the use of DEF and he showed me a rather large 40 gal DEF tank, as well as a smaller 5 or 6 gal heated DEF tank used by the truck's SCR system. That's definitely bigger than the 7L unit tucked away in my car!

Regards

lghf · May 25, 2010

DnA Diesel said:
... It's on the three's cars here, as well as on-road trucks. I was recently talking with a trucker at a truck stop, and commented that his exhaust stack was as clean as my 335d's exhaust tips. We spoke about SCR and the use of DEF and he showed me a rather large 40 gal DEF tank, as well as a smaller 5 or 6 gal heated DEF tank used by the truck's SCR system. That's definitely bigger than the 7L unit tucked away in my car!

Regards

Makes sense sense since Freightliner and Western-Star have access to MB's technology through Daimler.

dieselyeti · Jun 17, 2010

Mazda Sky-D diesel for US market?

After reading about Mazda's plans to bring their new Sky-D diesel to the US (skeptic mode on) I emailed their PR guy in CA. Jeremy Barnes told me there's been no official announcement to what vehicle the diesel will debut in (I've read both CX-7 and Mazda 6). He said they'd make an announcement as they get closer to their on-sale date in about 18 months. Hopefully they don't bail like Honda & Subaru did.

truman · Jun 17, 2010

dieselyeti said:
After reading about Mazda's plans to bring their new Sky-D diesel to the US (skeptic mode on) I emailed their PR guy in CA. Jeremy Barnes told me there's been no official announcement to what vehicle the diesel will debut in (I've read both CX-7 and Mazda 6). He said they'd make an announcement as they get closer to their on-sale date in about 18 months. Hopefully they don't bail like Honda & Subaru did.

Sounds like 2-3yr from now- at best.

Trbogolf · Jun 17, 2010

A diesel 6 would be nice. I really like the new design (like the JDM better). I only wish they would have kept the wagon or were bringing it back.

truman · Jun 17, 2010

Trbogolf said:
A diesel 6 would be nice. I really like the new design (like the JDM better). I only wish they would have kept the wagon or were bringing it back.

x2, the 6 wagons were nice.

dieselyeti · Jun 18, 2010

Trbogolf said:
A diesel 6 would be nice. I really like the new design (like the JDM better). I only wish they would have kept the wagon or were bringing it back.

Agreed. I like the look of the 6 and think a diesel version would be a winner. For that matter, a diesel CX-7 crossover would be the first of its kind and possibly a segment-buster.

German_1er_diesel · Jun 18, 2010

A diesel 6 would be nice. I really like the new design (like the JDM better). I only wish they would have kept the wagon or were bringing it back.

Well, Europe gets a range of multiple diesel Mazda6 wagons.

Trbogolf · Jun 20, 2010

German_1er_diesel said:
Well, Europe gets a range of multiple diesel Mazda6 wagons.

Rub it in why don't ya? I guess I should be happy I don't live in Europe. I wouldn't be able to decide what vehicle to buy with so many good options.

lbhskier37 · Jun 25, 2010

I would be all over a Mazda 5 diesel with 3 row seating!

Oberkanone · Jun 28, 2010

0'Sullivan on the D

O’Sullivan says criticism Mazda lacks “green” vehicles, such as hybrids and electric vehicles is unwarranted. The auto maker recently inked a pact with Toyota to share hybrid technology, he notes, and plans to bring to North America its new fuel-efficient 4-cyl. Sky-G direct-injection gas engine and Sky-D diesel mill. Its 6-speed automatic Sky Drive will arrive as early as 2011.
“We’re the only ones bringing diesels in right now of any of the Asian brands, and we think that’s pretty significant news,” he says.
As for pure EVs, O’Sullivan remains skeptical. “What portion of the global market in the next 10 years will really be EVs? Hybrids, I definitely agree there’s growth potential. But even hybrids will have a gas or diesel engine.”

It is welcome to have a bit of good press on diesel for North America from a non-German automaker.

Sky-D diesel. I even like the name.

truman · Jun 28, 2010

and bring back the 6 Wagon- please.

German_1er_diesel · Jun 28, 2010

At my local Mazda dealer:
http://img690.imageshack.us/i/imageyzs.jpg/
http://img517.imageshack.us/i/imageqmf.jpg/

Oberkanone · Aug 30, 2010

2013

2013

Worth the wait?

The first Sky-G engine, a 1.3L 4-cyl., arrives in Japan in mid-2011. Three months later, the high-volume 2.0L 4-cyl. bows in Asia, North America and Australia.
In early 2012, Europe receives both the 2.0L Sky-G and the 2.2L Sky-D. The diesel engine then hits the Japanese market three months later and debuts in North America in early 2013, executives say.

The diesel engine, with twin turbochargers, offers an unusually low compression ratio, also 14:1. And like its rival, the 2.0L I-4 turbodiesel from Volkswagen AG, Mazda’s 2.2L Sky-D can meet oxides of nitrogen emissions requirements in Europe and the U.S. without an expensive urea aftertreatment system.
Although preliminary, the Sky-G is expected to achieve 30/40 mpg (7.8-5.8 L/100 km) in city/highway driving, while Sky-D is anticipated to get 32/43 mpg (7.3-5.5 L/100 km).
Based on the New European Driving Cycle, the Sky-D with manual transmission could be rated as high as 57 mpg (4.1 L/100 km).
The 2.2L diesel engine tentatively is rated at 160 hp and 310 lb.-ft. (420 Nm) of torque, while the 2.0L Sky-G produces 165 hp and 155 lb.-ft. (210 Nm) of torque.
For the near future, Mazda does not intend to add turbocharging to the gasoline engine to avoid the added cost, weight and complexity, says Seita Kanai, Mazda’s director and senior managing executive officer-R&D and program management.

Mazda SkyActiv Diesel Engine

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