190 hp, 450 Nm from stock PD130 with just a remap?!

Bojje · Mar 13, 2011

This guy here in Sweden thinks really highly of himself. I think Theo, and alot of other people have questioned him on zatzy.com, and me too. The worst thing is that he bashes companies like ESStuning who are probably the biggest and most popular supercharger kits in the US and Europe and in my opinion very professional and do quality reliability tests.

Let's start off with some cars he's done.

BMW 335d (400 hp with dpf delete)

He offers a remap for PD130 engines (stage 1 170 hp, stage 2 190 hp)

BMW 120d (dpf delete, 280? something horsepowers)

Fabia RS with vnt 17/22 hybrid (240 hp) - but the owner of the car did
9,541sek/122,53km/h på 201M with his Vtech remap, and with the upgraded turbo etc he did 9,435s/121,54km/h på 201m, with lower terminal speed?!

If you still haven't noticed what I mean, he gets ridiculous numbers out of cars. Is this just bull****, is there anyway a VNT17VA can do 190 hp? Ofcourse, the reliability is **** because of what all I've read this turbo maxes out at 170 hp.

I am in no ways even slightly an advanced tuner or anything, these are just stuff I've read here on tdiclub.

Does this guy know anything when it comes to TDI tuning, it seems like this guy doesn't know what the limits are... or does he just fake it to make it?

ASHIHARA · Mar 13, 2011

No,it can,the guy is realy bull****
1stage is 155-160hp
2stage is 165-170hp
3stage is 175-180hp,but turbo will explode soon,because to achieve this power you have to run 1,7bar boost presure;safe pressure is 1,5bar,maybe 1,55bar.
So,for 190-200hp you need BV43 turbo for 2,0tdi pd 170hp with 1,7bar boost pressure.

hatemi · Mar 13, 2011

Im sure that 190hp can be had. The problem is that thw turbo cannot controll the boost all that well. I had 180hp and 414nm in my own passat but reduced the fueling aftewards. Boost started to climb after 3000rpm even with the vanes fully open. 1.8bar at 4000rpm is tad too much for it

Rub87 · Mar 15, 2011

Also have done a pd130 with cupra intercooler around 34 degrees of duration at stock nozzles lightgrey haze and turbo doesnt want to blow now for a few years.. its one of the later kp-39 (a)?

Before it had a map from a big company, spiked terribly at 2200rpm or so, costed two turbos, dmf and all engine mounts and engine mount support was torn out of the chassis

ASHIHARA · Mar 15, 2011

hatemi said:
I had 180hp and 414nm in my own passat

What boost pressure?Dyno test prove?
To be honest,i can`t belive stock turbo can handle to much this sort of power

turbo johan · Mar 15, 2011

Rub87 said:
Also have done a pd130 with cupra intercooler around 34 degrees of duration at stock nozzles lightgrey haze and turbo doesnt want to blow now for a few years.. its one of the later kp-39 (a)?

Before it had a map from a big company, spiked terribly at 2200rpm or so, costed two turbos, dmf and all engine mounts and engine mount support was torn out of the chassis

Those BPX engines have huge spike stock also.
Pure software problem.
When you chip them and don't change anything to boost control i just gets worse.
With good remap you can get al spikes out and run on ~200 hp saver than stock.

The PD130 is a KP39B.
Most have boost creep with a bit more power.
But not as bad as the KP39A (PD100).
Biggest problems of these cars is IC.
Dynorun of 7 sec can get IAT to 100 deg C..

Johan

turbo johan · Mar 15, 2011

ASHIHARA said:
What boost pressure?Dyno test prove?
To be honest,i can`t belive stock turbo can handle to much this sort of power

How much dynosheets do you want?
We are talking about crank HP.
I've done a lot to 180 HP and with no trouble for years.

Johan

cog · Mar 15, 2011

allot of uk pd130s run 190bhp most tuners recomend 170-180bhp but 190bhp is achivable especially with the pump duse fueling

hatemi · Mar 15, 2011

I just cant understand how yo can control boost with VA and over 32 degree duration. The vanes were fully open after 3000rpm and boost kept rising untill 4000rpm when fueling started to reduce. Steady 1.8+bar at that point and it was asking for around 1.3bar. My cam wasnt that good at that time and with my new regrind boost doesnt climv that high. And I also reduced fueling around 8% so now the problem is almost gone. When I get my SMF and clutch installed I might test further. The DMF was shaking like mad with over 400nm

ASHIHARA · Mar 15, 2011

cog said:
allot of uk pd130s run 190bhp most tuners recomend 170-180bhp but 190bhp is achivable especially with the pump duse fueling

Yes,but not with stock turbo;i saw some dynosheets and the power was between 156-165hp with 1,45-1,5bar boost pressure. I didnt see any answer for my question,what boost for 180hp with stock turbo?,because he cant handle more 1,55bar safe.
Again,i didnt see any dyno proof...,just talking

From me,to gain 200hp i use BV43 turbo+FMIC,so how it is possible to gain 180-190 with stock turbo,no fmic and safe?

leon10tagg · Mar 15, 2011

The main tuners in NI will normally map a pd130 to 170hp safely and push it to 185hp if you are willing to take a risk on reliability........

ASHIHARA · Mar 15, 2011

leon10tagg said:
push it to 185hp if you are willing to take a risk on reliability........

You don`t take JUST a risk,there is a BIG risk;EGT is the main answer why

@cog,most tuners from UK recomend 165-170hp for stock engine,not 170-180hp;and the true is,that 165-170hp on dyno test are only 156-165hp.I see a lot of people like to get drunk with wather

cog · Mar 15, 2011

yes thats what they say on there websites but if you want to they will happily custom tune to 180-190bhp at the customers request granted its always bemused me how you get that out of a stock va turbo but it can be done i wouldnt want it as my daily driver but i hava friend with a passat pd130 192bhp at the crank with all stock parts and allot of smoke. i was convinced that the turbo would have given up the ghost by now but 5 years tuned and going strong, mines still quicker though

but youre right in thinking that a good tuner would not advertise 190bhp on stock hardware as an option unless requested because they could not warranty that pushing it so hard . to be a good tuner you have to get the best you can out of a tune but keeping it safe for the customer. and in my mind he just showing whats possible but not realistic for everyday use

ASHIHARA · Mar 15, 2011

I agree with you

I`m surprised that turbo din`t blow up

Rub87 · Mar 15, 2011

turbo johan said:
Those BPX engines have huge spike stock also.
Pure software problem.
When you chip them and don't change anything to boost control i just gets worse.
With good remap you can get al spikes out and run on ~200 hp saver than stock.

The PD130 is a KP39B.
Most have boost creep with a bit more power.
But not as bad as the KP39A (PD100).
Biggest problems of these cars is IC.
Dynorun of 7 sec can get IAT to 100 deg C..

Johan

Was a regular early pd130 sport.. intercooler had to be replaced as it started to leak by the boostspikes caused by the bad tune it had on there before

leon10tagg · Mar 15, 2011

ASHIHARA said:
You don`t take JUST a risk,there is a BIG risk;EGT is the main answer why

Don't you take a risk every time you tune an engine as you effectively put greater strain on the components.....the element of fun in tuning is to strive to increase power whilst maximising the capability of the 'standard' components or upgrading them IMO

shadowmaker · Mar 15, 2011

184bhp with upgraded FMIC and exhaust for six years and ~120 000km. This was my friend's car and the tuning was done when the car was brand new back in 2003. No problems what so ever.

Best I know of was 196bhp on the same dyno (this is also the same dyno/tuner I have been using for over ten years now). Don't know how long this one hold together, but the owner wanted it all...

ASHIHARA · Mar 16, 2011

@leon10tag,yes,you take a risk,but it depends how big is the risk and if you`re willing to assume;even with a stock engine there is still a risk

@shadowmaker,brand new engine plus FMIC,that makes the difference to cool down the EGT(and exhaust also help) is more credible.

leon10tagg · Mar 16, 2011

Ashihara I'm currently running my ALH golf with standard internals at 201whp/219chp and 351lb ft.....is that enough risk for you

Also my AWX passat has enough hardware fitted for approx 230chp and 380+lbs ft.....just needs remapped to complete.....but there ain't much risk in that as the AWX PD130 internals are more than capable

ASHIHARA · Mar 17, 2011

Some people are more brave than others

18hp difference between whp and crank is a bit unrealistic

Rub87 · Mar 17, 2011

No it isnt

manual_tranny · Mar 17, 2011

So many numbers flying around... I can't figure out whether you guys are talking crank hp or wheel hp most of the time. Without knowing that, the whole conversation is a bit of a guessing game.

K.I.T.T. · Mar 17, 2011

Crank hp. We don't usually talk in whp this side of the pond.

Ash

Rub87 · Mar 17, 2011

difference between whp and crank hp is for the biggest part the rolling resistance of the tyres on the rolls.. an not lost in the gearbox.. on a 2 roll dyno you lose about 50hp at 200kph.. tank god that all the energy isn't absorbed by the gearbox

leon10tagg · Mar 17, 2011

Best to use a hub dyno IMO

......the passat will be set up on one in a couple of weeks time....

manual_tranny · Mar 17, 2011

K.I.T.T. said:
Crank hp. We don't usually talk in whp this side of the pond.

Ash

Oh thank God! If you guys had been talking whp I would have had to disagree with you!

ASHIHARA · Mar 18, 2011

Rub87 said:
No it isnt

Loss is 15% between cranck on whp,so 18hp it is

Piranha · Mar 18, 2011

The 335D maxes out at 340hp / 700nm. Any more will blow turbos.
The 320D (177 edc17) maxes out at 215hp.
The PD130 will deliver no more than 165hp safley....

I would not go past those numbers...

Bojje said:
This guy here in Sweden thinks really highly of himself. I think Theo, and alot of other people have questioned him on zatzy.com, and me too. The worst thing is that he bashes companies like ESStuning who are probably the biggest and most popular supercharger kits in the US and Europe and in my opinion very professional and do quality reliability tests.

Let's start off with some cars he's done.

BMW 335d (400 hp with dpf delete)

He offers a remap for PD130 engines (stage 1 170 hp, stage 2 190 hp)

BMW 120d (dpf delete, 280? something horsepowers)

Fabia RS with vnt 17/22 hybrid (240 hp) - but the owner of the car did
9,541sek/122,53km/h på 201M with his Vtech remap, and with the upgraded turbo etc he did 9,435s/121,54km/h på 201m, with lower terminal speed?!

If you still haven't noticed what I mean, he gets ridiculous numbers out of cars. Is this just bull****, is there anyway a VNT17VA can do 190 hp? Ofcourse, the reliability is **** because of what all I've read this turbo maxes out at 170 hp.

I am in no ways even slightly an advanced tuner or anything, these are just stuff I've read here on tdiclub.

Does this guy know anything when it comes to TDI tuning, it seems like this guy doesn't know what the limits are... or does he just fake it to make it?

ASHIHARA · Mar 18, 2011

Piranha said:
The PD130 will deliver no more than 165hp safley....

Finally someone agrees with me

Rub87 · Mar 18, 2011

Piranha said:
The 335D maxes out at 340hp / 700nm. Any more will blow turbos.
The 320D (177 edc17) maxes out at 215hp.
The PD130 will deliver no more than 165hp safley....

I would not go past those numbers...

Hard to tell without shaft speed measurement on the turbo

190 hp, 450 Nm from stock PD130 with just a remap?!

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