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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+)

VW Passat Family (NMS and B7) TDIs (2012+) Discussion area for the 2012+ Passat TDI (North American and rest of world versions versions). The North American model was previously codenamed NMS (New Midsize Sedan) and the version the rest of the world gets is sometimes referred to as B7.

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Old January 5th, 2020, 20:45   #16
joshferrer
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Originally Posted by turbobrick240 View Post
I'd try bleeding an injector line anyhow. It's easy and has worked for me a number of times. Did you pin the hpfp sprocket too?


I did that as well.

HPFP was locked as well.


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Old January 5th, 2020, 20:52   #17
joshferrer
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The picture you posted...it seems like the cam holding pin is not fully seated. That would indicate that your timing is off?

I've never done the timing belt on a TDi, but I did just watch the video someone else just posted.

And, having read that you re-timed that cam, could it be 180 out???

Not too many things to go wrong on a timing belt swap. This VW procedure has a few more steps than I'm used to. The big thing, to me, is the 2:1 cam to crank ratio and making sure you have them correctly in phase.


The pin was all the way in and definitely not moving. Hard to tell by that photo. Iím using the metal nerd set, which isnít a straight pin with the ball at the end like the VW ones. I felt pretty solid with the pin.

Now, it being 180 off is not something I have ruled out yet. When I checked the timing, it was off by a hair then adjusted it accordingly, as seen above in previous posts.

I left out of town for a few days. My dad mentioned that he attempted to get it started. Now I trust my dad that he said he didnít move anything but maybe he moved something and didnít realize it, causing it to be 180 off?

What would happen if I lock the cam but rotate the crank 1 turn (360 degrees)? Line everything up at TDC again. Turn it by hand to make sure it moves then crank it?


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Old January 16th, 2020, 11:51   #18
jpg98
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I'm curious, did you ever get this fixed?
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Old January 18th, 2020, 20:17   #19
joshferrer
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So, hereís an update and it isnít good.

I could not get it started at all. Unplugged the cam sensor, checked fuel pressure, checked everything and it all was good. Checked the timing once again, turned by hand and all good. Compression was there and everything was good. Still nothing. I decided to take it in to the dealer since at this point I exhausted everything I knew and maybe they could get it started.

I take it in and of course they charge their diagnostic fee to which I agreed.

The following day they called and said it wouldnít start because the timing was off. It would be $800 to time it (I know, ridiculous!). I assured them it was timed properly but if it meant I could get them to start it then sure, why not at this point. I said, ďsure but I 100% promise it will be timed properly to spec.Ē

No call for 3 days.

They call and say, ďwell, you were right about the timing. It was spot on...but we still canít get the car started.Ē So at this point, theyíre where Iíve been at. He said they were going to take the pan off just to see if they see anything unusual. They said theyíd do it no charge.

I get a call 2 days later and it isnít good. They found small metal pins in the pan as well as metal shavings in the oil. Keep in mind, the car hasnít started at all.

I went by the dealer because I wanted to see for myself what they were talking about. Sure enough what I saw was what they described but they have no idea where those pins are from. The service guys said Iíd most likely need a new engine from whatever this is.

This car is a CPO so at that point I asked what can be done under the CPO warranty (itís the only reason why I took it to the dealer in the first place for those wondering). They said they would find out because I said the CPO warranty said it covers the engine.

I get a call the next day saying that the VW warranty would cover the engine BUT for the techs to check for signs of detonation, ie valve bending because if they find that, the warranty wonít cover it. IF it is a bent valve, they wonít cover it and Iím stuck with the labor bill which at that point they said it would be $3,000! It was dependent on my approval at that point to start tearing the block down to find the source of the problem. I mentally went through my process and was like it shouldnít be a bent valve so I approved the start of it because it really could be something that is covered.

I get this message from them yesterday morning, ďHey, So we have the valve cover off and we have found 8 rockers
On all intake rocker valves destroyed which would evidently telling us the timing isnít right
I'm 10 hours into it now
Do you want me to proceed or stop
Because at this point
It's obvious we have bent valves.Ē

Photos they sent.



So now Iím stuck. The car is still at the dealer. Now Iím probably stuck with a $3,000 labor bill with the block thatís half torn apart with no certainty what caused this to happen.

How this happened? I have no clue. They confirmed my timing was spot on. Walked them through my process and they said it was all correct.

I was hoping that the warranty would help in this situation to just get the car back running as it was just fine before this.

At this point, I think Iíll just pay that hefty bill and take it apart myself, check everything and rebuild what I have to. Have I mentioned $3,000!! In those 10 hours the whole thing should be apart.

Anyways, thatís where Iím at now. Kinda lame because I still donít know how this could have happened.


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Old January 19th, 2020, 00:59   #20
turbobrick240
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If you plan to fix it, I'd look for a salvage yard engine to transplant. That would be cheaper, easier, and faster.
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Old January 19th, 2020, 01:05   #21
joshferrer
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If you plan to fix it, I'd look for a salvage yard engine to transplant. That would be cheaper, easier, and faster.


Thatís exactly what Iím doing!

Iíll have to tear the whole block apart to see what Iím working with then go from there.

I am a little excited though because after I get done rebuilding this one, I can use the leftovers to build something to withstand more power, which was something I was planning on doing in the future but looks like itís coming earlier!


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Old January 19th, 2020, 01:40   #22
turbobrick240
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I was actually suggesting yanking out the broken motor, and dropping in a good one. No rebuilding necessary.
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Old January 19th, 2020, 03:41   #23
c3kTDi
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Just to be clear, you bought this as a CPO.

It worked.

You decided to change the timing belt. ("decided" could mean "had to" or "changed on schedule". Regardless, the emphasis is meant to be on the fact that you did the work, not why.)

It didn't work.

Opening up the engine, the timing, at one point, was obviously off and destroyed the rockers.

If the above is correct, it points to you. Starting (or trying to) with the timing off could do that damage, right? It sure couldn't have been like that and been running...like it was before you started working on it.

Totally sucks. And the 3 grand is just hitting you when you're down.

Pull the head and, if the pistons are okay, just swap in a new head?

Let us know how it goes. You've obviously got some skills. How do you think the damage occurred?
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Old January 19th, 2020, 04:23   #24
joshferrer
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Originally Posted by c3kTDi View Post
Just to be clear, you bought this as a CPO.

It worked.

You decided to change the timing belt. ("decided" could mean "had to" or "changed on schedule". Regardless, the emphasis is meant to be on the fact that you did the work, not why.)

It didn't work.

Opening up the engine, the timing, at one point, was obviously off and destroyed the rockers.

If the above is correct, it points to you. Starting (or trying to) with the timing off could do that damage, right? It sure couldn't have been like that and been running...like it was before you started working on it.

Totally sucks. And the 3 grand is just hitting you when you're down.

Pull the head and, if the pistons are okay, just swap in a new head?

Let us know how it goes. You've obviously got some skills. How do you think the damage occurred?


Oh yeah, totally. I am not disagreeing with you one bit. At the end of the day no matter how you look at it, it all points to me regardless because it was working before and not after. Obviously something at home caused this to happen and I simply would like to know what it was.

I started off with asking could damage occur with the timing off simply because I was stumped. I always have to start from square one when trying to understand how it all works and for me thatís one of those things. Itís silly but Iím one of those guys that knows that the stove is hot when itís on and damage can occur when you put your hand on but is going to ask anyway what happens to your hand when you stick it on there and leave it.

I realized Iím just attached to my vehicles, especially when I take care of them, but it is what it is and you move forward.

Thatís what I was going to do this week. Just check everything myself to see what needs to be swapped out.

Iíll keep you guys posted. Like I said, I realized Iím attached to my car which is why I got all butthurt at first but now Iím excited to get this thing back to running.

As to how it occurred, I honestly donít know. I locked everything down, changed the belt, turned it by hand, then made some minor adjustments to lock it down again, turned by hand again, everything lined up perfectly then cranked it. Nothing after that. No weird noises or anything that would have led me to think that something broke. The car hasnít run at all which is why I was stumped.

I have definitely learned that these diesel engines are finicky.

Anyways, hopefully Iíll get it up running in the next couple of weeks once I asses everything and get it all in.

ps. I used article D3E803C0E4F off of Erwin for reference on the timing belt.


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Old January 19th, 2020, 06:45   #25
06bluebeetletdi
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Call and talk to the dealership, find out what the bill is, if you take it right now as it sits. Acquire another engine, take them the engine, have them install the new belt and accessories. The install engine. Now the issues are this, anything related to that engine will NOT be covered under the cpo... you may have to have the dealership install and acquire tge replacement engine for it to be covered, which depending on how much warranty you have left may be of no concern. Not sure how it affects the emissions warranty.
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Old January 19th, 2020, 07:00   #26
joshferrer
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Call and talk to the dealership, find out what the bill is, if you take it right now as it sits. Acquire another engine, take them the engine, have them install the new belt and accessories. The install engine. Now the issues are this, anything related to that engine will NOT be covered under the cpo... you may have to have the dealership install and acquire tge replacement engine for it to be covered, which depending on how much warranty you have left may be of no concern. Not sure how it affects the emissions warranty.


If Iím understanding you correctly, youíre saying acquire an engine and have them install it?

Definitely not doing that. Ridiculously expensive to just breathe at the dealer.

The 2 year unlimited miles TDI CPO warranty is up in May so itís not worth it anymore. The car already has about $6k in CPO warranty work done to it already as it is, including a new mechatronic unit. I took it back to the dealer about 6-7 times literally right after buying it because it just never sat right and had all sorts of problems.

Im calling it quits while Iím ahead (or behind depending on how you look at it) and just paying the bill now and bringing it home. Iím looking for another engine and am going to swap it out and go from there.


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Old January 19th, 2020, 14:38   #27
06bluebeetletdi
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I said have the dealership install the timing belt kit on the new engine. Then either you or them install engine in the car. I saw someone go down the same path that you have done, except the car was an 11/12 golf tdi, his saving the labor of the dealership installing the timing belt kit (around the time that people had the $1000 vw gift cards, cost him around $5000 as well as being without the car for 3-4 months after playing with it himself for awhile, going to an independent shop, then to a dealership. Iím a diy girl, but thatís way beyond me.
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Old February 13th, 2020, 01:26   #28
joshferrer
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Just made a new thread since I canít get the fuel pump to turn on to prime it before cranking the engine.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=505449

Update: swapped a motor in with 19k miles on it. Everything is good to go! Just trying to get the pump to turn on so I can crank it.





This was fun but man, a lot of work!


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Old February 13th, 2020, 02:41   #29
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now pull the head on the other motor and check valves. im curious.
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Old February 13th, 2020, 04:57   #30
c3kTDi
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now pull the head on the other motor and check valves. im curious.
This.
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