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TDI Conversions Discussions on converting non TDIs into TDIS. More general items can be answered better in other sections. This is ideal for issues that don't have an overlap and are very special to swaping engines.

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Old January 11th, 2020, 09:41   #16
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It doesn't need to be on the list... i only listed wires and pinouts that require attention when making a standalone harness. The wire coming from pin 18 is NOT one of those because it's path remains undisturbed between the ecm and R109. If you are disturbing that wire, you are taking an unnecessary step.
Do you delete the relay from the harness?
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Old January 11th, 2020, 12:40   #17
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So if you make a stand alone harness without using pin 18 but want to maintain OEM wiring how are you going to power the ecu up via relay 109 or any other relay for that matter ? @jimbote
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Old January 11th, 2020, 12:57   #18
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So if you make a stand alone harness without using pin 18 but want to maintain OEM wiring how are you going to power the ecu up via relay 109 or any other relay for that matter ? @jimbote
??? ....the wire from pin 18 to relay 109 is untouched and intact so why mention it? it's like mentioning the wires from ecm to pump, they need no attention when paring down a harness so why include detail about them?... i'm not building a harness from scratch. If you want to cut this wire and replace it (only god knows why) that is your business. I don't touch it in my standalone harnesses aside from removing the bulky connector from it's path so it's not worth comment unless i wanted to confuse folks on what is necessary.
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Old January 11th, 2020, 13:14   #19
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To me a stand alone harness means it can be used in any vehicle, not all vehicles have a VW fuse box so the relay has to be wired accordingly, so are you just switching a relay on to power the ECU ?
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Old January 11th, 2020, 13:20   #20
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To me a stand alone harness means it can be used in any vehicle, not all vehicles have a VW fuse box so the relay has to be wired accordingly, so are you just switching a relay on to power the ECU ?
i use the factory VW relays (glow, 109) and the neccessary factory paths are intact for simple diagnosis, and it's still a standalone harness with one battery power wire, one key/on start and a few grounds to get running.
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Old January 11th, 2020, 13:25   #21
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So from what I can gather from your information is:- the ecu relay has it's own earth, you switch it on with the ignition feed which then sends power to the ECU ?
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Old January 11th, 2020, 13:36   #22
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So from what I can gather from your information is:- the ecu relay has it's own earth, you switch it on with the ignition feed which then sends power to the ECU ?
If you read and understand the factory VW diagrams then you will understand how my harness works. I think you're making this a lot more complicated than it needs to be. Factory relays, factory fuses, factory wiring pathways, very simple.
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Old January 11th, 2020, 13:45   #23
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I understand the factory diagrams which is why i'm on about this pin 18 as it earths the ecu control relay from the ecu when you switch the ignition on at the ecu, and i use this method in all the PD conversions I do here in Portugal
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Old January 11th, 2020, 13:47   #24
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a peek inside my standalone relay/fuse box
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Old January 11th, 2020, 14:19   #25
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This is what I'm trying to explain, in this ECU (AGR) it's pin 33 that earths the relay


https://imgur.com/yQKLpPl
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Old January 11th, 2020, 14:58   #26
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This is what I'm trying to explain, in this ECU (AGR) it's pin 33 that earths the relay


https://imgur.com/yQKLpPl
ok? so what are trying to do? we are talking about 121 pin ALH ecm's here. this is an AGR. The EC relay is functionally the same as relay 109 but uses a different pin to ground said relay. If i were building a standalone using the AGR harness i still would not mention pin 33 because i would leave that wire intact and only focus on the bare minimum of interfacing wires to get the thing running. And those would mainly be the key on/start "wake up" wire, grounds, and power wires. This pin 33 (AGR) or pin 18 (ALH) are part of the existing harness that needs ZERO attention when doing a standalone, unless of course, you've somehow hacked the harness to bits removing it or somehow severed it during the paring down process. Don't really know how else to explain it, but basically "if it aint broke, don't fix it" ...or "keep it simple stupid" (no offense intended or implied) ... I understand the importance and functionality of this wire and i assure you it's utilized in my harness, but so are ten dozen other wires that need no comment because they are part of system left intact during the paring down process.
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Old January 11th, 2020, 15:05   #27
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I understand the factory diagrams which is why i'm on about this pin 18 as it earths the ecu control relay from the ecu when you switch the ignition on at the ecu, and i use this method in all the PD conversions I do here in Portugal
are you cutting the wire to pin 18 (33 AGR) and earthing it with a switch? if so, why? why not leave it intact and wake up the ecm as VW intended? with the sw/li key on/start wire?
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Old January 11th, 2020, 16:00   #28
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You missed my point, I put the AGR loom up as an example. I wire up 121 pin ECU's into mk2 golfs and the looms for the car side of the conversion come mainly from Mk4 golfs, seat leons and ibizas, these looms don't come pre-wired to the 109 relay they terminate into 5 plugs, so you have to do it yourself and yes, i'm KISS these looms !
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Old January 11th, 2020, 20:47   #29
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You missed my point, I put the AGR loom up as an example. I wire up 121 pin ECU's into mk2 golfs and the looms for the car side of the conversion come mainly from Mk4 golfs, seat leons and ibizas, these looms don't come pre-wired to the 109 relay they terminate into 5 plugs, so you have to do it yourself and yes, i'm KISS these looms !
I'm starting with complete harnesses, underhood and under-dash, there's no way i would try and piece together from just the engine side so i won't be including the wire from pin 18 in my chart... I understand now what you're working with but it doesn't apply here.
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