CedarPark68
Veteran Member
TS,
Can you throw one more to really round out your list?
: ACEA A3
Use of CJ4 oils is very popular, unknowingly using an A3 I'd also say is very 'popular'.
Amsoil In this Thread only
- Thread starter BKmetz
- Start date
Can you throw one more to really round out your list?
: ACEA A3
Use of CJ4 oils is very popular, unknowingly using an A3 I'd also say is very 'popular'.
Most European oils are dual use, gas/diesel products and almost all of the current ACEA "A3" oils also meet the generic "B4" Spec for TDI diesel engines. I'd consider this to be the minimum requirement for an older TDI engine. It's only suitable for a PD if it also has the VW 505.01, or VW 507.00 ratings.
The VW 502.00/505.00/505.01 oils also carry the ACEA A3/B4 rating, with the same chemical limits as shown above....
TS
The VW 502.00/505.00/505.01 oils also carry the ACEA A3/B4 rating, with the same chemical limits as shown above....
TS
Last edited:
Bob_Fout
Oil Wanker
The most recent generic A3/B3 and A3/B4 specs are here (on the right) for those oils that are ACEA-only.
http://www.lubrizol.com/EuropeanEngineOils/Introduction.html
http://www.lubrizol.com/EuropeanEngineOils/Introduction.html
milehighassassin
Top Post Dawg
I've had very good luck with 5W40 DEO in my PD.
I've used a bunch of oils including European Car Formula. Honestly the thing that helped the most on my PD was blocking the EGR.
roadking00
Well-known member
Thanks Mile High , I actually just got done blocking off my EGR and a RC1+ Tune along with replacing my DMF...My next quest is upgrading to a better oil for the PD, I just recently got a new case of the European Formula so looks like I will use that up for 2 more 10K interval changes then switch over to Amsoil 10w-40/AMO or 15w-40/AME I guess, I guess I have about 16-18K miles to figure that one out..
Roadking,
If you were closer I'd swap you a case of the Amsoil 15w-40 in exchange for their European oil. As I mentioned, I've had outstanding results with it in gas engine vehicles.
One thing to understand is that we're picking nits with many of these recommendations.
The vast majority of PD engines worldwide are running on VW Spec oils very similar to the Amsoil product. It's possible you could run the European oil for 15,000 miles and the results would be fine. I just like the extra margin of safety with the very robust, 12 TBN, Amsoil HD diesel oils (the TBN of the European oil is ~ 8.0)
TS
If you were closer I'd swap you a case of the Amsoil 15w-40 in exchange for their European oil. As I mentioned, I've had outstanding results with it in gas engine vehicles.
One thing to understand is that we're picking nits with many of these recommendations.
The vast majority of PD engines worldwide are running on VW Spec oils very similar to the Amsoil product. It's possible you could run the European oil for 15,000 miles and the results would be fine. I just like the extra margin of safety with the very robust, 12 TBN, Amsoil HD diesel oils (the TBN of the European oil is ~ 8.0)
TS
annettev
Member
Excuse the newbie question. I have read most of this thread until my eyes glassed over. I will be starting the maintenance of my 2009 JSW in a few thousand miles and want to order everything ahead of time. I just received the new Amsoil flyer with the European Car Oil(AEL) and I would like to know if I can use that for my car. Is it on the VW "approved" list yet? Will it be? Is there a better oil? What is the best filter?
Also, on the automatic trans fluid--is there any option other than dealer?
Thanks for the help--great site!!
Also, on the automatic trans fluid--is there any option other than dealer?
Thanks for the help--great site!!
jasonTDI
TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number
The oil is not on VW's list as most are mot as well. But its a perfect oil for you.
The DSG oil is not only a dealer item. All the vendors here sell it. Pentosin is the manufacturer.
The DSG oil is not only a dealer item. All the vendors here sell it. Pentosin is the manufacturer.
Your 2009 Jetta should have free oil changes for the first 30,000 miles. After that the Amsoil 5w-30 European Oil meets the VW 504/507 specs & will be fine to use. Amsoil does not pay VW to get on their Approved Lubricants List, but they do fully warranty their 5w-30 for the VW 504.00/507.00 applications.
TS
TS
annettev
Member
Thanks for the info. I wound up buying the Bentley manual from Amazon yesterday so I will get the supplies and get going on the 40K service in a few weeks.
BTW, since this is an Amsoil thread...has anyone installed one of their bypass filters on a 2009 JSW? I would love to see some pics of the install. I just put a kit on my 2005 Dodge CTD and love the idea.
BTW, since this is an Amsoil thread...has anyone installed one of their bypass filters on a 2009 JSW? I would love to see some pics of the install. I just put a kit on my 2005 Dodge CTD and love the idea.
jasonTDI
TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number
Pretty tight under that hood....
tditom
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2001
- Location
- Jackson, MI
- TDI
- formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
anything before the PD engines used a distribution pump, also known as injection pump (Verteiler Einspritzung, IIRC )
Last edited:
VW 505.00 was the original oil spec for the VE motors. That Spec dates back to the mid 1990's and only used the IDI, 1.6L, non-turbo, VW engine for standardized testing. Both VW 505.01 & 507.00 are better Specs.
The API Spec back then was "CH-4"; the two API Spec oils available today (CI-4+ and CJ-4), are both much better than CH-4.
Basically, any modern VW or API Spec diesel oil will work fine in the older motors. The thinner VW 507.00 oils will give you the best performance; the thicker API Spec oils (with significantly higher additive levels), will give you the longest service intervals (if you want to exceed 10k) and the best wear protection. The latest low SAPS formulations (504/507), should be the best as far as intake valve & EGR deposits and in emission systems compatibility. They were formulated to specifically address the conditions seen in TDI, diesel & gas engines.
TS
The API Spec back then was "CH-4"; the two API Spec oils available today (CI-4+ and CJ-4), are both much better than CH-4.
Basically, any modern VW or API Spec diesel oil will work fine in the older motors. The thinner VW 507.00 oils will give you the best performance; the thicker API Spec oils (with significantly higher additive levels), will give you the longest service intervals (if you want to exceed 10k) and the best wear protection. The latest low SAPS formulations (504/507), should be the best as far as intake valve & EGR deposits and in emission systems compatibility. They were formulated to specifically address the conditions seen in TDI, diesel & gas engines.
TS
vwthingguy
Active member
I still have 5 quarts of Amsoil 5W40 left over from my 2005 TDI beetle that I recently traded off for a 2010 Jetta TDI. Can I use that saely or just stick with the recommended 5W30?
If it's the 5w-40, Premium diesel oil (DEO), I would not use it - the level of ash & phosphorus is too high.
If it's the 5w-40 European formula (product code: AFL), that's a "mid-SAPS" oil suitable for DPF equipped, light duty diesel engines. It meets BMW LL-04 and Mercedes 229.51, but not VW 504.00/507.00 (which specifically calls for an SAE 5w-30). I'd use it up if it was my car and then switch to the 5w-30 European Formula, if you want to stick with Amsoil. The ash level of the 5w-40 is slightly higher than for the 5w-30 Euro, but oil consumption will be slightly less with the thicker 5w-40.
TS
If it's the 5w-40 European formula (product code: AFL), that's a "mid-SAPS" oil suitable for DPF equipped, light duty diesel engines. It meets BMW LL-04 and Mercedes 229.51, but not VW 504.00/507.00 (which specifically calls for an SAE 5w-30). I'd use it up if it was my car and then switch to the 5w-30 European Formula, if you want to stick with Amsoil. The ash level of the 5w-40 is slightly higher than for the 5w-30 Euro, but oil consumption will be slightly less with the thicker 5w-40.
TS
vwthingguy
Active member
Thanks Too Slick! That's what I will do. It is the European formula (AFL). I hadn't planned on trading just yet, but the 0% interest was too tempting to pass up, we needed 4 doors again, plus the PD engine wasn't my favorite. I am planning on doing a 2k-3k change out of the initial factory fill oil since they are doing the 3 year free maintenance. I am not sure what oil is factory fill, or if I should go with Amsoil totally from the get go.
Last edited:
Derrel H Green
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2002
- Location
- Murrieta, California
- TDI
- An '05 MBZ E-320 CDI (W-211) replaced the '10 TDI JSW
Not So Fast
I read where it is not a good idea to change out the factory fill until the recommended 10K miles.
Something about that oil being there for some specific reason to do with proper breaking-in.
Others may jump in here with what they know on that subject.
D
I read where it is not a good idea to change out the factory fill until the recommended 10K miles.
Something about that oil being there for some specific reason to do with proper breaking-in.
Others may jump in here with what they know on that subject.
D
VWThingguy,
It seems most dealers are using Castrols 507.00 oil for the newer TDI's, which works just fine. There is a difference of opinion about changing out the factory fill early, but I'd probably change it after 5k miles and then change again at 10,000. You could use up your five quarts of 5w-40 for that changeout of the factory fill. I see no reason not to take advantage Of the free oil/ filter changes for the first 30k mikes I've not seen any oil
analysis results from the new Amsoil 5w-30 diesel oil, but the high temp specs on it look very good.
TS
It seems most dealers are using Castrols 507.00 oil for the newer TDI's, which works just fine. There is a difference of opinion about changing out the factory fill early, but I'd probably change it after 5k miles and then change again at 10,000. You could use up your five quarts of 5w-40 for that changeout of the factory fill. I see no reason not to take advantage Of the free oil/ filter changes for the first 30k mikes I've not seen any oil
analysis results from the new Amsoil 5w-30 diesel oil, but the high temp specs on it look very good.
TS
vwthingguy
Active member
How important are higher TBN numbers for the 507.00 oils for OCI's on low SAPS vehicles? ? I noticed the Amsoil European formula is 5.8. Will this hold up for the 10K OCI that VW is recommending or would it be a shorter OCI?
Last edited:
tditom
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2001
- Location
- Jackson, MI
- TDI
- formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
Ulsd means you don't have as much acid build up, therefore you don't need a real high TBN to go for 10K mi.
I was also initially concerned about the low TBN's of all the VW 504.00/507.00 oils, which are all in the 5.5-6.5 range. This is a result of reduced levels of "organo metallic" detergent/dispersant additives (Ca & Mg), which produce sulfated ash when burned.
The oil analyses I've seen indicates that TBN depletion is not an issue in the large majority of cases - provided you don't go past the maximum 10k service interval specified by VW/Audi. The main reason for this is the 15 ppm sulfur fuel, which generates very little acid buildup in the oil. A secondary reason is the small # of fuel consumed by a TDI over 10,000 miles, compared to a 2.0L, gas engine. Even my 1997 Jetta (with the 2.0L/115 Hp engine), only averaged about 30-32 mpg. So it burned about 33%-40% more fuel than a typical VW/TDI for a given oil change interval.
The jury is still out if the VW 504.00/507.00 Spec oils will last for 10k miles in a VW/Audi, gas engine - particularly in the 2.0L, DI turbos. These engines suffer from abnormal fuel
dilution & shear the oil like crazy. It's a MUCH more difficult engine to lubricate properly....
TS
The oil analyses I've seen indicates that TBN depletion is not an issue in the large majority of cases - provided you don't go past the maximum 10k service interval specified by VW/Audi. The main reason for this is the 15 ppm sulfur fuel, which generates very little acid buildup in the oil. A secondary reason is the small # of fuel consumed by a TDI over 10,000 miles, compared to a 2.0L, gas engine. Even my 1997 Jetta (with the 2.0L/115 Hp engine), only averaged about 30-32 mpg. So it burned about 33%-40% more fuel than a typical VW/TDI for a given oil change interval.
The jury is still out if the VW 504.00/507.00 Spec oils will last for 10k miles in a VW/Audi, gas engine - particularly in the 2.0L, DI turbos. These engines suffer from abnormal fuel
dilution & shear the oil like crazy. It's a MUCH more difficult engine to lubricate properly....
TS
Last edited:
vwthingguy
Active member
Thanks again T.S. Your help is much appreciated!!!
TDI2Fan
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2004
- Location
- Fredericksburg, VA
- TDI
- 2000/2001/2002/2004/2009 Jetta GLS Auto/Auto/5M/5M/DSG 2010 A3/DSG
Just finished the Nov '10 article from Dan Peterson and a review of the AEL Brochure. I continue to be concerned about the Amsoil professing an equivalency to 507.00. I get the chemical compostion aspect but I am just not seeing the thrashing that occurs from VW to get on the approved list. Has Amsoil or an independent tester ran the oil through similar paces?
When looking for oil for my PD, I landed on Elf CRV. I have been blessed and all is well in the wear department and I have since moved off Amsoil and all of my Diesels are on CRV except those that need 507.00.
I have not seen much UOA demonstrating the equivalency! Am I missing something? I searched with little results. Expected something to be in this thread - http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=154548&highlight=UOA&page=21
When looking for oil for my PD, I landed on Elf CRV. I have been blessed and all is well in the wear department and I have since moved off Amsoil and all of my Diesels are on CRV except those that need 507.00.
I have not seen much UOA demonstrating the equivalency! Am I missing something? I searched with little results. Expected something to be in this thread - http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=154548&highlight=UOA&page=21
Amsoil is very clear that their 5w-30 European oil meets VW 504.00/507.00, as well as BMW-LL04, Mercedes 229.51 and the generic ACEA A3/B4 specs.
Getting on VW's Approved List is mainly done for advertising purposes. However, you'd have to know the specific chemical/physical requirements of the Specification before you could formulate an oil to meet it. Southwest Research Institute (SWRI), in San Antonio maintains a certified, VW engine test stand. I believe that's who Amsoil (and many other oil companies) uses to do their engine sequence testing.
TS
Getting on VW's Approved List is mainly done for advertising purposes. However, you'd have to know the specific chemical/physical requirements of the Specification before you could formulate an oil to meet it. Southwest Research Institute (SWRI), in San Antonio maintains a certified, VW engine test stand. I believe that's who Amsoil (and many other oil companies) uses to do their engine sequence testing.
TS
TDI2Fan
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2004
- Location
- Fredericksburg, VA
- TDI
- 2000/2001/2002/2004/2009 Jetta GLS Auto/Auto/5M/5M/DSG 2010 A3/DSG
That is all well and good. I will contact SwRI to get some information on the Test Stand. However, the AEL, states "Recommended for the extended drain intervals established by the vehicle manufacturer. Change oil filter at time of oil change." That is the OCI in the owners manual (10K OCI). It does not stipulate the 2-yrs or 50KMS that is the approved list criteria.
I am still trying to get to the practical evaluation to support the claim of "...formulated to meet or exceed the most demanding European..." For me, that then establishes a clear equivalency.
I am still trying to get to the practical evaluation to support the claim of "...formulated to meet or exceed the most demanding European..." For me, that then establishes a clear equivalency.
Bob_Fout
Oil Wanker
This is no different than other Euro oils in the US. We don't have OLM.
This is the actual text:
Mobil [as an example] won't tell you it's OK to exceed the factory interval.Amsoil said:
Mobil said:
Last edited:
manual_tranny
Smyth Performance- Intern
In your opinion and from oil analysis data, how long would you say 507 lasts on US spec fuel?
Off-topic... (but a good question) What are the relevant differences in composition between US and Euro diesel as it relates to how quickly engine oil is degraded?