Plug-in or Full-Electric Vehicles? bad idea

kcfoxie said:

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What doesn't kill birds? Wind turbines. They move too slow to affect them.

Plus I think it's really ironic that we NOW care about the birds when my two critters are 4-5 generations in to captive breeding because their natural home land in africa has been destroyed to make food farms, wood, and manufacturing facilities for the cheap crap we Americans buy every day from Chinese companies seeking to outsource their own work to even cheaper laborers.

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Please tell me your joking? The tip speed of those blades are around 80-100mph (depending on the blade size) in a 20mph wind. I've seen it happen in person and they never see it coming. For a goose it looks like a M80 going off inside a feather pillow! The transmission line pools coming into the farm actually attract raptors (great hunting perch) and they tend to get smacked the most as they ride the thermals. Bats are taking the spotlight lately as they get hit in the twilight hours and farms near large populations are being forced to turn off the turbines during those hours which are generally low wind conditions anyways.

To be fare cars and buildings are still the largest killer of birds so if you fight this battle you will have to give up your car and your house But wind power is a tiny fraction to the overall solution which IMO is diversity and a much better grid system (smart grid). Japan has a great system because its run by one group where connecting grids to each other and being efficient saves them money. In the US being inefficient and having power shortages drives up the price so they can charge the end user more. Remember the Enron games in California where they would turn off plants (saying it was for maintenance) and cause blackouts to raise the rates. The system is designed for failure.

http://www.break.com/index/buzzard-gets-clipped-by-wind-turbine.html
(this one just got winged, you should see a direct hit)

In my 13 years of driving I've seen two bids get hit by cars: one was an escaped cockatoo and the other was by my car, a cardinal (still don't know how...)

There are new films that have come out in the last few years that turn all glass applications into a bright green object to the birds eye (UV coloring I believe), so that's becoming a non-issue.

I can see bats, but I really don't think (and the studies have concluded this time and again) that it's a serious issue for birds, any more so than as you've pointed out glass windows.

And as you stated, if it does pose a problem, you power off during their flight time.. that can be automated.

How many geese and ducks die in airplane collisions? Seems that numbers would be similar given the number of wind installs worldwide vs the number of planes that are in the sky at any given time.

edit: seeing the buzzard fall was very sad. I can see how easy it is to get emotional about the issue, at least he was OK. Also, these creatures do think, within a generation of breeding they will avoid these things. Well, at least some of them not all birds are as smart as others, and i suppose those dumber populations will be the ones that would kill off a proposed site for a wind install.

Back to the topic:

I'm for electric cars for a couple reasons, it will force our failing grid system to be exposed and force change. Its much easier to improve emissions on a a couple thousand power plants then it is to improve emissions on a billion+ cars and trucks. I do realize that current battery technology is lacking, wasteful, and not efficient but i believe someone will figure it out. The next Bill Gates will be the guy/girl that figures out a efficient/compact way to store energy.

Birds killed by cars

kcfoxie said:

In my 13 years of driving I've seen two bids get hit by cars: one was an escaped cockatoo and the other was by my car, a cardinal (still don't know how...)

There are new films that have come out in the last few years that turn all glass applications into a bright green object to the birds eye (UV coloring I believe), so that's becoming a non-issue.

I can see bats, but I really don't think (and the studies have concluded this time and again) that it's a serious issue for birds, any more so than as you've pointed out glass windows.

And as you stated, if it does pose a problem, you power off during their flight time.. that can be automated.

How many geese and ducks die in airplane collisions? Seems that numbers would be similar given the number of wind installs worldwide vs the number of planes that are in the sky at any given time.

edit: seeing the buzzard fall was very sad. I can see how easy it is to get emotional about the issue, at least he was OK. Also, these creatures do think, within a generation of breeding they will avoid these things. Well, at least some of them not all birds are as smart as others, and i suppose those dumber populations will be the ones that would kill off a proposed site for a wind install.

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KCFOXIE, with all due respect, and my hat is off to you for your efforts with the endangered birds, but in all my driving years, my car has struck a good number of birds. In a few instances, the bird flew into the car.

Ironically, just last week, a woodpecker "killed itself" by flying into a side window of my "parked" Motorhome.

One morning several years ago, a huge Wood Hen (Red headed Woodpecker), flew into the side my car. I looked in the mirror and saw it spinning around in the middle of the highway. I turned and went back and got it.. dead. When I got to work, I called state officials to see if they wanted it for research or whatever, the immediately warned me that I was breaking the law for having it in my possession regardless of how I got it.

I've hit bats with my car (notice plural), I've hit several species of birds, including small owls, as well as rabbits, squirrels, dogs, cats, deer, foxes and tons of mosquitos and gnats ... no coyotes...LOL I've even taken owls to a vet that rehabs them ....... waste of time.

The point is, birds and animals are going to get hit by moving objects, whether it is an auto, train, plane, windmill, etc. So, anytime there is human development, trade-offs will be involved.

Lastly, the vast majority of airplane contact with birds is during landing or take-offs.