Mazda SkyActiv Diesel Engine

MichaelB

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My cousin bought a $500 Chevy pickup. It gets 11 mpgs. Adding up repairs, insurance, licensing, and all the fuel costs over 3 years of ownership, he has only recently spent more to operate that car than I paid to just buy mine.

Oh and he can use the truck to do extra jobs to make extra money.
Add to that he had to drive around in a $500.00 Chevy pick up. Not my choice of a good ride. Cheap is what cheap is! :rolleyes:
 

kjclow

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Add to that he had to drive around in a $500.00 Chevy pick up. Not my choice of a good ride. Cheap is what cheap is! :rolleyes:
Cheap is typically what people pay for most cars that I trade in. My wife and I were talking about our last minivan that we got rid of in 03. It sat in the back of the dealers overflow lot for about 6 months, until they either junked it or found someone willing to take it to auction.
 

eddie_1

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The point is they've copied diesel direct injection techniques for gassers and improved the fuel economy greatly. 40-50mpg gassers have been std in europe for a while now, amongst other optimizations for gassers. There are lots of small gasser cars getting 50-60mpg. The big difference is the diesels have been optimized even more for even better fuel economy than the gassers. However none of those diesels come any where near the north american continent.
 

kjclow

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The other difference is that the North American diesels have more emmissions equipement on them compared to the current direct inject gasoline engines. Once the EPA/CARB determines that the direct inject gasoline engines need a particulate filter, I am guessing that those higher mpg numbers will start coming down.
 

bhtooefr

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And the DI gas engines are actually being held back as far as going into lean burn modes, due to NOx. IIRC Mercedes is getting very, very close to putting GPFs and urea on their larger DI gas engines in Europe.
 

wxman

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In 2009, the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) conducted a study of diesel technology vs. petrol technology in the same European vehicles with essentially the same performance (0-100 km/hr within 5% - NAS, "Assessment of Fuel Economy Technologies for Light-Duty Vehicles."). At that time, the average fuel consumption reduction for diesels was 25.25% over the corresponding petrol versions.

According to Mazda, the 150 ps SkyActiv-D Mazda 3 diesel, 6-speed manual (available in the "Sport Nav" - http://www.mazda.co.uk/cars/mazda3-hatchback/specs-and-prices/) achieves an official fuel consumption rating of 4.1 liters/100 km combined in the NEDC (107 g CO2/km) and a 0-100 km/hr of 8.1 seconds (@ Euro 6 emissions), while the 165 ps SkyActive-G petrol, 6-speed manual achieves an official 5.8 liters/100 km combined in the NEDC (135 g CO2/km) and a 0-100 km/hr of 8.2 seconds (@ Euro 5 emissions). That's almost a 30% reduction in fuel consumption (~21% reduction in CO2 emissions) for the diesel version over the gasoline version with nearly identical 0-100 km/hr performance, which actually exceeds the average fuel consumption reduction in the 2009 NAS study.

Agree that North America does not get the best of diesel technology in passenger cars, but it still appears that diesel technology is maintaining its fuel consumption & CO2 emission advantage over gasoline engine technology, GDI notwithstanding.
 
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Tin Man

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The math would go like this, perhaps with the European fuel efficiency numbers being more believable than the EPA numbers:

Current price of diesel: $3.84/g = $1.01/liter (at least around here)
Current price of regular: $3.42/g = $.90/liter

1 km = 0.621371 miles
1 gallon = 3.78541 liters

Approximate cost of going 100,000 miles/160,934 Km in a Mazda 6:
Diesel: at 4.1 l/100 km: 6,598.31 liters: $6,664.29
Gasoline: at 5.8 l/100 km: 9,334.17 liters: $8,400.75

Given that the US version of the Mazda 6 diesel may be slightly less efficient, it seems that there isn't much difference cost wise for fuel, as long as the engines perform equivalently.


TM
 

rotarykid

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The point is they've copied diesel direct injection techniques for gassers and improved the fuel economy greatly. 40-50mpg gassers have been std in europe for a while now, amongst other optimizations for gassers. There are lots of small gasser cars getting 50-60mpg. The big difference is the diesels have been optimized even more for even better fuel economy than the gassers. However none of those diesels come any where near the north american continent.
I spent years during the 1990s driving fuel efficient manual trans gas powered offerings as rental cars in other parts of the world. All were 1.0-1.6 L with 5 spd manual transmissions, sedans, wagons and hatchback models. All could be coaxed above 40 mpgUS with a little effort. All could easily cruise 100-130 km/hr. And around town they didn't need to be thrashed too hard to maneuver around city traffic safely and comfortably.......

So the claimed today gasoline mpgs are possible with manual trans equipped smaller engines not offered here today or likely ever. But I do not buy the current epa claims on what is being offered here today. I have years of driving what we are today being offered that the epa is falsely claiming that they can see similar so I just don't buy it.

In automatic only put it in D and push the peddles world here even under perfect conditions these claims are overestimated by as much as 30 % city & highway above what anyone will likely ever see, tank to tank checked with pen & paper....

Compare that to any of the current diesel powered offerings and you will see even the worst of drivers see above the current epa rating 95 % of the time. While the rest of us that actually know how to drive to save fuel beat the epa numbers by as much as 30-40 % in every day daily driving with little effort.....
 

tdi90hp

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I spent years during the 1990s driving fuel efficient manual trans gas powered offerings as rental cars in other parts of the world. All were 1.0-1.6 L with 5 spd manual transmissions, sedans, wagons and hatchback models. All could be coaxed above 40 mpgUS with a little effort. All could easily cruise 100-130 km/hr. And around town they didn't need to be thrashed too hard to maneuver around city traffic safely and comfortably.......

So the claimed today gasoline mpgs are possible with manual trans equipped smaller engines not offered here today or likely ever. But I do not buy the current epa claims on what is being offered here today. I have years of driving what we are today being offered that the epa is falsely claiming that they can see similar so I just don't buy it.

In automatic only put it in D and push the peddles world here even under perfect conditions these claims are overestimated by as much as 30 % city & highway above what anyone will likely ever see, tank to tank checked with pen & paper....

Compare that to any of the current diesel powered offerings and you will see even the worst of drivers see above the current epa rating 95 % of the time. While the rest of us that actually know how to drive to save fuel beat the epa numbers by as much as 30-40 % in every day daily driving with little effort.....
just drove to Florida from Toronto FULLY loaded with my new 6 speed Mazda 3 SkyActiv and got 40MPG steady at 70 MPH with lots of hills in West Va. The car has under 3000 miles. Not broken in. Gassers get good mileage these days. Lots of stations had 1 DOLLAR spread between Gas and Diesel. Its gonna take a leap in economy and change in pricing strategy for VW to materially increase sales in next 5 years on the diesel side from where they are today. IMHO.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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I think you have to get close to 55 to break even on a $1 per gallon fuel cost difference.
 

993er

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I think you have to get close to 55 to break even on a $1 per gallon fuel cost difference.
Maybe and provided you want to drive a Mazda 3 Skyactive 6-Speed.

I did and gladly paid $7K more for my TDI. Its not just about the $$$. If it is, one should just take public transportation.
 

gcodori

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I think you have to get close to 55 to break even on a $1 per gallon fuel cost difference.
This week my wife and I filled up or vehicles. She drives a gas suv and I drive a tdi.

She paid $3.97 for regular in our home town. I paid $3.85 for diesel where I work (24 miles away).

Where and when you fill up makes a huge difference in California. "Richer" parts of town have higher prices.

She gets 16 mpg and drives 50 miles each way. I drive 24 miles each way and get no less than 40 combined no matter how fast I drive. Funny how some people need to have an suv. Btw, I'm up to 250,000 miles on my vw. Diesel engines last forever. Another benefit of diesels that get overlooked.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk HD
 

tdi90hp

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Note though that the new 2013 I test drove was extremely discounted with the new generation 2014 models already out. So that explains the huge price difference.
You might want to re-test the 14.....it isn't the same bag of nuts. I drove both as well cause the guy was ready to sell his soul to move a stick 13 but it was a lousy color and too loaded. the 14 is winning tonnes of awards around the world and one drive tells you why. but the point I am making is that the Golf is now in a bit of a tougher position having raised their pricing once again on the high end model and the price of diesel staying stubbornly high makes it a bit more of a "driving" decision than a durability/economy decision. Both engines will last a long time...way beyond the time frame I would ever keep them....
 

VeeDubTDI

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None of the previous day's conversation had anything to do with the Mazda Skyactive diesel engine. One member has made so many inflammatory comments that everything has been removed.

Back on topic: Mazda Skyactive diesel engine!
 
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993er

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You might want to re-test the 14.....it isn't the same bag of nuts.
Too late! I'm not about to go and sell or trade my Jetta even if a better Jetta comes out. I held onto my last car 15 years after buying it new.

As for the 2014 Mazda 3, were they able to drop the revs to 1700 RPM in a 6-speed at 60 MPH/100 KPH? The 2013 Mazda 3 6-speed I test drove was up at 2250 RPM and even though that was a far cry lower than my 5-speed Honda CR-V's 3000 RPM, I just wasn't willing to put up with a 4-cylinder reving like a sewing machine again. Sorry, but I tolerated a lot of noise for 15 years.

There are so many great diesels out there. All we have to do is cross the ocean, which is unfortunate.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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My Miata runs right around 20 MPH per 1000 RPM. 80 = 4000 RPM. It doesn't mind a bit. And it's not at all uncommon to see Miatas with 200K on them and no major engine work, even with track day use.
 

kjclow

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The only issue I have with the gassers spinning faster is that they also are then louder.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Some are, some aren't. The Miata is loud regardless. Funny, but my M-B turns 3000 RPM at 75. It's not loud at all, just a low amplitude 5 cylinder rumble.
 

993er

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There's no logical reason to get hung up about a certain RPM level.
I'm not hung up on a "certain" RPM level. I am hung up on getting the lowest RPM level. All other things being equal, a lower RPM is quieter.

I dropped 1300 RPM going from a gasser to my TDI; both are 2.0L 4-cylinder engines.
 

GoFaster

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Sound and vibration transmitted to the interior will depend more on counterbalancing, engine mounts, exhaust mounts, insulation, etc. Overgearing in the interest of getting an arbitrarily lower RPM will just mean more shifting, and that's more annoying.

My Yamaha FZR400 does 7000 rpm at 100 km/h and it's happy doing that all day.
 

993er

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My Yamaha FZR400 does 7000 rpm at 100 km/h and it's happy doing that all day.
No question about that, but we are not talking about an engine's ability to rev and last, but about how quiet it is while cruising.

My Suzuki RG 500 Gamma's engine was happy between 7200 and 9500 RPM and it got me to the next city 120 miles away in under an hour and it could do that all day as well.
 

bhtooefr

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Actually, at high load (those "Eff. Mitteldruck" (BMEP) figures relate directly to torque output), potentially, yes:



20.5 bar BMEP on a 1968 cc engine = 236 ft-lbs
236 ft-lbs * 1750 RPM / 5252 = 79 hp in the 200-210 g/kWh area of the map about equidistant from the lines
79 hp / (3000 RPM / 5252) = 138 ft-lbs
138 ft-lbs on a 1968 cc engine = 12 bar BMEP in the 200-210 g/kWh area of the map but closer to the <200 g/kWh area than the 210-220 area, and with more power available just barely in the <200 g/kWh area
 
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