cancelling order

KJT

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Location
Milton, ON Canada
TDI
2012 wagon
With all this talk about HPFP and frozen intercooler issues, I am considering of cancelling my order. I'm suppose to get my '12 wagon in a few weeks, will the dealer allow me to do this? Maybe I'll just go with the GTI.
 

JettaTDiPA

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Location
Northern PA
TDI
Owned 2011 JSW DSG for 16mo.
Typically, unless the ordered vehicle has items that are not desirable to the general public - I would think the dealer would not care- TDIs are in such demand, it will sell.

Personally, unless you did not really want a TDI to begin with, the outside chance of HPFP failure or iced intercooler would not bother me. It is part of the "joy" of owning a VW product. There is a list of "subjective failure items" with any vehicle. Not critical of your thoughts, just little different view. Good luck, hope you enjoy which ever model you select.
 

Joe_Meehan

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Location
Ohio USA
TDI
NB TDI, 2002.5, Silver
I agree with JettaTDiPA

Every car has problems. What you see here are VW problems. On a Ford newsgroup you would see Ford specific problems just as you will see RollsRoyce problems on their news group.

VW has one advantage, and that is the cost of addressing a VW problem is likely going to be a lot cheaper than a RollsRoyce problem. (-;)
 

Plus 3 Golfer

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Location
ARIZONA
TDI
Und tschüss! 2009 Jetta 12/23/2012
If I were looking to buy a 2012 TDI, I'd wait and at least read VW's response (was due in Dec. 2011) to NHTSA's latest IR on EA11003 before committing to buy one. There may be some useful info relative to HPFP design.

The question is do you want to spend $30k on a new car with the uncertainty surrounding the HPFP. Yes, every car has problems but I would guess that most would run, not walk from such a car if the dealer said something like, "I need to inform you that there have been HPFP fuel systems replaced in previous MY TDIs that have cost owners $8k and more to fix because VWoA says the diesel fuel they pumped in their car didn't meet US spec. But don't worry, we have made improvement in the pump that allows short term deviations from the spec.":D

You should check your state laws on cancelling the contract. Typically, you are committed to buy once you sign (there might be a period of time to cancel but not likely). I would think the dealer would certainly work with you on purchasing a GTI (especially if it's on the lot) instead of the TDI and out of good, may simply let you cancel the contract.
 

KJT

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Location
Milton, ON Canada
TDI
2012 wagon
Maybe I'll just stop reading these forums and try to enjoy this vehicle. I can't, some good info here. I've always liked VW's and their diesel and when I got rid of my Corrado, I knew one day I would get back into one There is always room for a VW in my driveway. I just hope this one doesn't clean my pockets dry.
 

lou95gts

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2010
Location
Caledon
TDI
2010 Jetta
Maybe I'll just stop reading these forums and try to enjoy this vehicle. I can't, some good info here. I've always liked VW's and their diesel and when I got rid of my Corrado, I knew one day I would get back into one There is always room for a VW in my driveway. I just hope this one doesn't clean my pockets dry.
I will make an assumption that your "Milton" location is Milton Ontario? If so don't fret too much about the HPFP failures. Our diesel fuel is of much higher specs than the USA fuel. As long as you don't fill'er up with gasoline you will be fine. Buy the diesel at Husky, Sunoco, Shell or any of the other high use diesel stations.
The intercooler freeze happens only on high humidity days were the temps are exactly right at 0-1C. It will run rough or even stall at initial cold start up and then clears up in less than 10 seconds. Happened to me twice so far this year. Just one of the joys of VW TDI ownership.
 

boomvang

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Location
Pompey, NY
TDI
Jetta Sportwagen
Lou, you're a lot more mellow about the frozen intercooler issue than I am. The idea that I may be doing major damage to the engine under certain unavoidable conditions is totally unacceptable, and should not be a part of any "joy" of ownership for any car. I can say that if I had known about this before, I would never have bought this car, and am thinking of ways of getting out of ownership without taking too much of a beating. This sucks, because it is otherwise a very good car.
 

lou95gts

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2010
Location
Caledon
TDI
2010 Jetta
its not really a "frozen" ic but the ic collects condensation due to temp changes. I usually pull the outlet rubber hose from the ic at every oil change and clean it. Sometimes it will have almost 1/2 oz of liquid and oil. Im not too worried. Its nowhere near enough to hydrolock an engine. Just an inconvenience. Like I said, VW ownership quirk.
 

boomvang

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Location
Pompey, NY
TDI
Jetta Sportwagen
That's nice for you, but check out the 100+ pages of posts concerning this issue. There have been cases where more than enough fluid has accumulated to cause hydrolock. I repeat, it sucks, it's more than an inconvenience, and it is unacceptable.
 

GraniteRooster

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2010
Location
Upper Valley NH
TDI
'12 JSW 6MT
Canceling your order takes all the sport out of it :D. If you like the TDI and need the economy, go for it. Nothing on the road can touch it. I'm on my second one! :cool:
 

dweisel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
TDI
dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
Personally, unless you did not really want a TDI to begin with, the outside chance of HPFP failure or iced intercooler would not bother me. It is part of the "joy" of owning a VW product.
Just remember that you said that if you ever have a major problem.:eek: I personally don't need that kind of joy.
 

frugality

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Location
Spring Lake, Michigan
TDI
none, 2016 GTI
Just remember that you said that if you ever have a major problem.:eek: I personally don't need that kind of joy.
And now your 'joy' is to spend your time poo-poo'ing on a TDI website when you no longer own a TDI.

I'm all for being realistic, rationalistic, and for hearing both sides of an issue. But there are too many folks who here who no longer own TDIs yet still come here to spread the 'joy' of gloom-and-doom....

Every vehicle involves a calculated risk, because things break on any and all of them.
 

dweisel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
TDI
dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
And now your 'joy' is to spend your time poo-poo'ing on a TDI website when you no longer own a TDI.

I'm all for being realistic, rationalistic, and for hearing both sides of an issue. But there are too many folks who here who no longer own TDIs yet still come here to spread the 'joy' of gloom-and-doom....

Every vehicle involves a calculated risk, because things break on any and all of them.
I do still own a tdi, just not a CR. I've NEVER, EVER told anyone not to buy a CR or to get rid of their current CR. Or that every CR is doomed to fail. I'm not pissed at VW and never have been. Just greatly disappointed in the two 09's we owned. I LOVED everything about those two cars. I'm sorry that you view my post as negative,but I think I've put a lot of info out there that would not have been available otherwise.
Would I personally buy a 1st generation CR tdi. NO. But what I feel is right for me may not be right for someone else. Would I buy a 2nd generation CR tdi. Maybe. Only time will tell how the new engine and fuel system fairs as far as durability.There is nothing I'd like better than to own and drive all diesels again. But until I'm sure that all major problems have been worked out I'll stick with the gassers.
 
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pknopp

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Location
WV
TDI
2012 Jetta Sportwagen
IMO dweisel does add a lot of good information here. It's not just negative, negative, negative.
 
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Dariof

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Location
So. Nv & So. Ca
TDI
2011 JSW TDI
If I were looking to buy a 2012 TDI, I'd wait and at least read VW's response (was due in Dec. 2011) to NHTSA's latest IR on EA11003 before committing to buy one. There may be some useful info relative to HPFP design.

The question is do you want to spend $30k on a new car with the uncertainty surrounding the HPFP. Yes, every car has problems but I would guess that most would run, not walk from such a car if the dealer said something like, "I need to inform you that there have been HPFP fuel systems replaced in previous MY TDIs that have cost owners $8k and more to fix because VWoA says the diesel fuel they pumped in their car didn't meet US spec. But don't worry, we have made improvement in the pump that allows short term deviations from the spec."

You should check your state laws on cancelling the contract. Typically, you are committed to buy once you sign (there might be a period of time to cancel but not likely). I would think the dealer would certainly work with you on purchasing a GTI (especially if it's on the lot) instead of the TDI and out of good, may simply let you cancel the contract.
Here you go again with your crap.
 
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pknopp

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Location
WV
TDI
2012 Jetta Sportwagen
According to actual data the odds of having a problem are very low.
 

Dariof

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Location
So. Nv & So. Ca
TDI
2011 JSW TDI
According to actual data the odds of having a problem are very low.
No crap, just the truth according to actual data.;)
Please tell me what is crap.:D

I hope you're a better golfer than analyst.

If I were a newbie reading your posts which are infused with implications this is such a serious problem that will affect all of us, I would run. I think you're bitter because you had a failure and in some way is trying to punish VW.

But as pknopp and several other have said, its such an uncommon issue when looking at the total picture....less than 1%.

Why don't you rewrite your BS phantom conversation with the dealer and add the words 'less than 1%" somewhere. That would paint an entirely different picture than what you are always portraying, but it would be accurate.
 
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KJT

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Location
Milton, ON Canada
TDI
2012 wagon
Read that too, but it would suck if your car becomes the data. My plan was to keep this car for awhile, looks like I'll change it after the warranty expires, unless it turns out to be a gem, which is what I'm hoping for. Time will tell...and yes I'm in Ontario, so the fluctuating weather does concern me.
 

Plus 3 Golfer

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Location
ARIZONA
TDI
Und tschüss! 2009 Jetta 12/23/2012
I hope you're a better golfer than analyst.
If I were a newbie reading your posts infused with implications this is such a serious problem that will affect all of us, I would run. I think you're bitter because you had a failure and in some way is trying to punish VW.
But as pknopp and several other have said, its such an uncommon issue when looking at the total picture....less than 1%.
Why don't you rewrite your BS phantom conversation with the dealer and add the words 'less than 1%" somewhere. That would paint an entirely different picture than what you are always portraying, but it would be accurate.
If I knew the current failure rate I would post it.;) The failure rate for each model year is increasing over time. I think most who bought a CR TDI are hoping that there will be no more HPFP failures of their MY but that simply won't be the case. Also, I was responding to Joe Meehan's statement that "every car has problems" post:rolleyes: with an example to illustrate that one needs to be concerned about reliability and cost when spending $30k. You can interpret my post any way you want to.

I simply want VW to present the facts and hopefully NHTSA will push them to do such. In fact, those of us who have had a HPFP replaced are better off in that we have the latest revision. I like the new Passat TDI and would likely buy one if I knew that these pumps are more robust than the older ones. I took one for a test drive in August.

But to suggest that the HPFP failures are a non issue because it is such an "uncommon" issue shows ignorance of the history. There is no question that fuel quality affects pump life. There is no question that better pump design can mitigate the effects of poor quality fuel on pump life. There is no question that fuel quality especially lubricity is difficult to measure accurately. Also, How many people had the "false neutrals", the bad bushing in the DSG, an $8k engine repair due to an iced up innercooler and so forth. Is it less than or more than 1%? Why is VW fixing these issues? Because they can't blame it on fuel.:eek:

Oh and I am a lot better analyst than golfer.:D
 

pknopp

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Location
WV
TDI
2012 Jetta Sportwagen
If I knew the current failure rate I would post it.;) The failure rate for each model year is increasing over time. I think most who bought a CR TDI are hoping that there will be no more HPFP failures of their MY but that simply won't be the case. Also, I was responding to Joe Meehan's statement that "every car has problems" post:rolleyes: with an example to illustrate that one needs to be concerned about reliability and cost when spending $30k. You can interpret my post any way you want to.
Every single piece of every single car will eventually fail.

I simply want VW to present the facts and hopefully NHTSA will push them to do such. In fact, those of us who have had a HPFP replaced are better off in that we have the latest revision. I like the new Passat TDI and would likely buy one if I knew that these pumps are more robust than the older ones. I took one for a test drive in August.
The problem as I see it is not the pump being robust enough. As noted, very few are failing. It's whether or not the fix will have to be to the extent VW has taken it to or not.

But to suggest that the HPFP failures are a non issue because it is such an "uncommon" issue shows ignorance of the history. There is no question that fuel quality affects pump life. There is no question that better pump design can mitigate the effects of poor quality fuel on pump life. There is no question that fuel quality especially lubricity is difficult to measure accurately. Also, How many people had the "false neutrals", the bad bushing in the DSG, an $8k engine repair due to an iced up innercooler and so forth. Is it less than or more than 1%? Why is VW fixing these issues? Because they can't blame it on fuel.:eek:

Oh and I am a lot better analyst than golfer.:D
I've not seen anyone have to pay out 8K for the IC issue.
 

Dariof

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Location
So. Nv & So. Ca
TDI
2011 JSW TDI
If I knew the current failure rate I would post it.;) The failure rate for each model year is increasing over time. I think most who bought a CR TDI are hoping that there will be no more HPFP failures of their MY but that simply won't be the case. Also, I was responding to Joe Meehan's statement that "every car has problems" post:rolleyes: with an example to illustrate that one needs to be concerned about reliability and cost when spending $30k. You can interpret my post any way you want to.
I simply want VW to present the facts and hopefully NHTSA will push them to do such. In fact, those of us who have had a HPFP replaced are better off in that we have the latest revision. I like the new Passat TDI and would likely buy one if I knew that these pumps are more robust than the older ones. I took one for a test drive in August.
But to suggest that the HPFP failures are a non issue because it is such an "uncommon" issue shows ignorance of the history. There is no question that fuel quality affects pump life. There is no question that better pump design can mitigate the effects of poor quality fuel on pump life. There is no question that fuel quality especially lubricity is difficult to measure accurately. Also, How many people had the "false neutrals", the bad bushing in the DSG, an $8k engine repair due to an iced up innercooler and so forth. Is it less than or more than 1%? Why is VW fixing these issues? Because they can't blame it on fuel.:eek:
Oh and I am a lot better analyst than golfer.:D
If you're a better analyst than golfer, I'll play golf with you any time. I don't golf, but I'm thinking my chances are pretty good. :D
 

DasTeknoViking

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2010
Location
Palatine IL
TDI
B4 TDi, A4 R32
Cancel, buy GTi.

One of my friends was so impressed with my old B4 TDi that he got one of his siblings to buy a 11 JSW TDi. Well family was all packed up going to Disney World out of WI and the HPFP gave out ghost in the smokeys......

Maybe some of you don't have wifes/family etc.... but when a car with 2 kids, wife pregnant with another decides to stop running at 1AM on a weekend, I would burn that fkr down on the side of the road. I don't know the outcome of this situation as they where so upset that I haven't heard back from them. It was because of my 430K mile original engine, VE pump etc that was so reliable they bought a new CR TDi. They bought a TSX wagon right after the car was fixed.
 

pknopp

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Location
WV
TDI
2012 Jetta Sportwagen
Cancel, buy GTi.

One of my friends was so impressed with my old B4 TDi that he got one of his siblings to buy a 11 JSW TDi. Well family was all packed up going to Disney World out of WI and the HPFP gave out ghost in the smokeys......

Maybe some of you don't have wifes/family etc.... but when a car with 2 kids, wife pregnant with another decides to stop running at 1AM on a weekend, I would burn that fkr down on the side of the road. I don't know the outcome of this situation as they where so upset that I haven't heard back from them. It was because of my 430K mile original engine, VE pump etc that was so reliable they bought a new CR TDi. They bought a TSX wagon right after the car was fixed.
There isn't a car manufacturer that hasn't had a new car break down. There isn't a one that hasn't bought one back under lemon laws.

To say that you would burn your new car down because something failed is pretty silly.
 

frugality

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Location
Spring Lake, Michigan
TDI
none, 2016 GTI
One of my friends was so impressed with my old B4 TDi that he got one of his siblings to buy a 11 JSW TDi. Well family was all packed up going to Disney World out of WI and the HPFP gave out ghost in the smokeys......

Maybe some of you don't have wifes/family etc.... but when a car with 2 kids, wife pregnant with another decides to stop running at 1AM on a weekend, I would burn that fkr down on the side of the road. I don't know the outcome of this situation as they where so upset that I haven't heard back from them.
NO car out there is guaranteed not to break down on a road trip.

America is turning into a bunch of panty-waists. Our ancestors took contestoga wagons across the country with pregnant wives, minimal provisions, etc. And they were smart enough to be resourceful, rather than to burn down their wagon when it broke an axle or wheel.

Heck, we're in the days of plastic money where you can find the nearest car rental company location on your smartphone, call them up, and get a rental car to continue your trip with.

If you want security, just stay home.

“An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered.”
― G.K. Chesterton
 

DasTeknoViking

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2010
Location
Palatine IL
TDI
B4 TDi, A4 R32
Obviously you haven't ever had 2 kids in a car for 1400 miles getting ready to see Disney World. Personally if I had an issue like they did, I would burn it to the ground. When you ruin your kids first real vacation.... It's like finding out Santa isn't real for them. Needless to say the GTi is a great car, and if you baby it....

Wife's GTi on a recent trip to WI n back doing 70 on cruise. MFD is within 1mpg. I will gladly take the 5mpg hit to have a car that I'm afraid to drive any further down the road than my driveway
 

canux

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Location
Toronto
TDI
2013 Beetle TDI
I've always liked VW's and their diesel and when I got rid of my Corrado, I knew one day I would get back into one There is always room for a VW in my driveway. I just hope this one doesn't clean my pockets dry.
KJT, I owned a 94 Corrado VR6 (bought new), and you have nothing to worry about with the TDI in comparison to it. I don't think there was anything that didn't break on the Corrado...
 
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