Kerma Tdi Review

ezshift5

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2003
Location
West Coast
TDI
2013 JSW TDI (Enroute BB).......2017 Jetta 1.4 turbo 5M ....................
Actual numbers are slightly better, maybe by a 2-3 mpgs. My latest tank was 44mpg of mixed driving, but I do tend to enjoy the acceleration more than I should (but it's so fun!), so I'm sure I could do better. The display is waaay over-optimistic after the tune, so it's best not to get too excited until you can actually calculate by hand.
44 MPG in mixed driving (with acceleration thrown in) seems impressive to this sailor.

And this calc is miles driven by gallons pumped?

Again, John B (are you the sloop guy?)

I AM IMPRESSED!



ez (looking not to suffer too much when I give up my 55 MPG HWY TDI wagen)
 

Sunnyb

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Location
MI
TDI
2015 GSW
44 MPG in mixed driving (with acceleration thrown in) seems impressive to this sailor.
And this calc is miles driven by gallons pumped?
Again, John B (are you the sloop guy?)
I AM IMPRESSED!
ez (looking not to suffer too much when I give up my 55 MPG HWY TDI wagen)
My 2015 gsw gets nearly 5 mpg better then old 2009 Jetta. And that is with the same driving style and calculating miles driven by fuel used.
 
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alvinM3

Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Location
Chicagoland Area
TDI
2011 Golf TDi
Bumping this for interest. Shife, did you end up testing/using the final version of the Kerma tune? Anyone else who has a DSG with a Kerma tune willing to chime in? Thanks
 

Shife

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Michigan
TDI
2015 GSW SE DSG White/Beige
Bumping this for interest. Shife, did you end up testing/using the final version of the Kerma tune? Anyone else who has a DSG with a Kerma tune willing to chime in? Thanks
During an email conversation on 9/27/2016 I told him I'd gladly amend my statements if he followed through with sending an updated file. I've had no contact with him since 10/11/2016, when he indicated they had just got their test vehicle on the road again after dealing with some malfunctioning air suspension components. He has not sent a follow up file and has not contacted me since that email.

Pre-release file or not (His exact words when it was offered were "If you'd like to try a different kerma tune"), he was dismissive when I notified him of issues and tried to blame it on me (speed, throttle position, etc). At this point I'm convinced he's using people as advertising mediums. He convinced me to try his tune file by promising a free DSG tune (never materialized.) I know I'm not the only person he's made this offer to and you'll see some individuals who post overwhelming glowing reviews across tons of sites after driving the car for five minutes, which is something I believe Charlie may have figured out that I'm ethically opposed to. If something has flaws, I'm not going to hide that it has issues just because a piece of candy was dangled in front of me. While it was made known that these were pre-release files, no mention was made that there was any risk beyond a normal tune, nor were codes or other issues taken seriously when they occurred.

To put a capstone on this, I've used similar tunes from two different tuners on the same car - One tune caused the trip computer to report MPG figures that were wildly inaccurate (you'll see people bragging about these readings and posting pics of them on reddit) as well as EGT temps that were literally over 1700*f when you put your foot in it and setting codes. The other tune showed the same displayed MPG errors as stock and increased performance without bouncing off the EGT limiter.

My car is at the dealership today getting the emissions update. A Malone file will be going back in it, as throughout this entire process and my endless questions, they have been upfront and honest with me. They've not promised me any freebies or influenced this in any way, they've just been honest with me. I'm sure this will spark an angry email at some point today, but if I was any concern beyond a possible free marketing source I would think I would have seen some movement in the past 27+ weeks. This whole saga began nearly 1.5 years ago. I don't want to send any more time on this nonsense; I just want to enjoy my car.

I know lots of people have had positive experiences with Kerma. I've no desire to talk negatively about a company. But if you're going to offer people things to evaluate and make promises, have the time to make good on your word and when things aren't right, act like you're interested in finding out why.
 

Nutty 5.0

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Location
SE PA
TDI
15 GSW SEL TDI 6MT
During an email conversation on 9/27/2016 I told him I'd gladly amend my statements if he followed through with sending an updated file. I've had no contact with him since 10/11/2016, when he indicated they had just got their test vehicle on the road again after dealing with some malfunctioning air suspension components. He has not sent a follow up file and has not contacted me since that email.

Pre-release file or not (His exact words when it was offered were "If you'd like to try a different kerma tune"), he was dismissive when I notified him of issues and tried to blame it on me (speed, throttle position, etc). At this point I'm convinced he's using people as advertising mediums. He convinced me to try his tune file by promising a free DSG tune (never materialized.) I know I'm not the only person he's made this offer to and you'll see some individuals who post overwhelming glowing reviews across tons of sites after driving the car for five minutes, which is something I believe Charlie may have figured out that I'm ethically opposed to. If something has flaws, I'm not going to hide that it has issues just because a piece of candy was dangled in front of me. While it was made known that these were pre-release files, no mention was made that there was any risk beyond a normal tune, nor were codes or other issues taken seriously when they occurred.

To put a capstone on this, I've used similar tunes from two different tuners on the same car - One tune caused the trip computer to report MPG figures that were wildly inaccurate (you'll see people bragging about these readings and posting pics of them on reddit) as well as EGT temps that were literally over 1700*f when you put your foot in it and setting codes. The other tune showed the same displayed MPG errors as stock and increased performance without bouncing off the EGT limiter.

My car is at the dealership today getting the emissions update. A Malone file will be going back in it, as throughout this entire process and my endless questions, they have been upfront and honest with me. They've not promised me any freebies or influenced this in any way, they've just been honest with me. I'm sure this will spark an angry email at some point today, but if I was any concern beyond a possible free marketing source I would think I would have seen some movement in the past 27+ weeks. This whole saga began nearly 1.5 years ago. I don't want to send any more time on this nonsense; I just want to enjoy my car.

I know lots of people have had positive experiences with Kerma. I've no desire to talk negatively about a company. But if you're going to offer people things to evaluate and make promises, have the time to make good on your word and when things aren't right, act like you're interested in finding out why.
Thank you, this was a good information. Hopefully they'll make things right despite it being late.
 

KERMA

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 23, 2001
Location
here
TDI
99 beetle and 04 jetta
Thank you, this was a good information. Hopefully they'll make things right despite it being late.
Sounds to me like that ship may have sailed.

But there is more to the story, of course.

Let me make it clear, I never asked him to say anything in public and in fact was pretty emphatic about the opposite. So not sure where this free advertising stuff and related accusations comes from, but I am not the one who engages in that practice. For sure, if that was my practice then shife would not have posted like that. And I would have chosen someone who was easier to work with and only post sunshine and rainbows.

So the rest of the story.

Eric bought a tune back in 2015. Then the e-mails started, and after a few of them I got caught in a bad mood after some unrelated stuff and decided to just offer a refund than deal with it. Probably not the best way to handle it at the time, but there it is. I can be somewhat impatient and impulsive at times but that's just me. Then after thinking about it some more I saw that it might be useful to have a different and critical perspective, so I asked him if he would be willing to offer some independent insight on some stuff I wanted to try. I had already given a refund on the tune, so I offered a free DSG tune as compensation for his trouble. (When it became available, which FWIW it is still is not for the Mk7 as I write this.)

I told him from the start, that I keep the stock EGT limiters in place, even though some of my competitors make a regular practice of disabling the egt limiters and even changing how the sensor reads so it never reads high enough to trip the limiter. (and when they do that, the actual temperatures never show correctly in OBD when they get too high, either) IMO I would rather have the user be aware that they need to back off than sweep it under the rug. Anyhow, I let him know ahead of time under what circumstances the EGT limiter may make it self known and to expect it.

Then months later, a few e-mails about finding the egt limiter, july so i will assume summer hot weather. And the EGT sensor fault. Then since it was the first time I had ever seen any instance of that, there's me asking what driving conditions, was it regen, etc, and asked for logs. (never got logs that I asked for, or for that matter, any logs, despite asking several times and offering to provide the UDS templates for VCDS) Asked for the fault code readout showing the freeze frame, which was useful info to have. 90 mph full throttle in 4th gear. Perfect, info to work with now.

I thanked him for the info, and (even though it is not a problem with other customers), it was useful info and I would work on it. But not give him anything until I was personally able to test on our own GSW- which was out of commission because of airbag issues.

Then there's the matter of the flash counter. I decided that his ecu should be backed up your ecu before any more tunes were sent. I offered to do this backup for free. The flash counter is getting too high and before too long even VW won't be able to flash it when it reaches 65. (this actually happened to me when I was on the dyno) If we back up the ecu on the bench, then we can restore the flash counter back to what it is at the time of the backup. Otherwise you would need to buy a new ECU. That wouldn't be ideal.

And back in october I let him know I hadn't forgotten about him, we just got the GSW back on the road. He said no problem his concept of time is kind of fuzzy anyway becuase of difficult projects at work. So no problem.

And then here we are, more than 100 e-mails later and several phone calls. You would think it would be common courtesy to have a heads up... Hey dude, I'm going to bash you in public and go nuclear and do what I can to ruin your reputation? Nope. You have my e-mail, you have my phone number, and the guys always answer the phone at kermatdi because I typically don't deal with customers directly. But you are not a paying customer either. I would not typically ask a paying customer for development feedback, or expect that someone I am working with would just go ballistic in public without some sort of consideration.

Let me just wrap up the EGT thing by saying, all the diesel truck guys know that EGT is one of the prices of performance and if it gets too high you just back off. People install EGT gages so they can know what their egt is doing and act (react) accordingly. Doing so allows higher performance but the price is you just back off if it gets too high. Simple as that. It's not something that I have a lot of complaints on, but based on your feedback adjustments have been made.

So I will reiterate, once more so it sinks in... EVERY ONE of the concerns Shife has mentioned has been 100% addressed and solved.... and the current production tunes have even more power than ever before!
So this long story is kind of moot at this point.

Your new tune is ready, but it's ok if you don't want it. Probably best that way.
 
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adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
I can't say how others write their tunes, but I do know the MK7 has an EGT sensor right before the turbo and never hit any limits before going DPF delete. I probably never went full boost to redline in 4th on a 90° day either. I fully support the safety in regards to EGT and limiting power if needed to save the turbo though. Would be nice if auto polar would hurry up with their MK7 update to the polarfis so I could see what's going on more often. I've run logs post delete and temps are extremely low

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 

KERMA

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 23, 2001
Location
here
TDI
99 beetle and 04 jetta
you will NEVER hit a limit if the sensor linearization is modified to display incorrectly!

In that instance then polar FIS will not show the correct EGT, either, and neither will VCDS. The only way to know for sure would be a separate and independent EGT guage. How many guys have a separate egt gage on these newer cars? And by a guage, I don't mean scan guage or P3 guages, those all use the ECU signal which will be incorrect if it has been tweaked.

IMO changing the linearization or disabling the DTC would be ethical ONLY if the user had some other way of independently monitoring EGT (or if they agree to take full personal responsibility for the consequences and savvy enough to actually know the potential consequences). That means you need a gage that does not depend on what the ECU thinks is the EGT. But it is wrong to do it just to avoid dealing with customer support questions or to cheat for better dyno numbers without the customer knowing what is actually happening to their car. And it is wrong to tell people to swap the position of sensors around to "solve the problem" and wrong to suppress hundreds of fault codes just so they won't trigger and provide the informative function they were designed for.

I would rather be bashed for being safe and knowing my customers cars are safe than engage in shady practices that could potentially allow them to damage their cars without them knowing it. So easy to just "turn it off" but that's not how I want to roll and I don't want to do that to my customers just to make it easier for me. It's a lot more difficult to work within some existing safety bounds that actually have the ability to have some effect when necessary, but I think it's the right way to do things.
 

Shife

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Michigan
TDI
2015 GSW SE DSG White/Beige
Charlie... You did not give me any heads up about the EGT limiter. In fact the first time it set a P2478 code you were of the opinion that the code may have set because the EGTs were too low. In regards to the logs: I don't see anywhere in the emails where you provided any templates or instructions for the logs you now claim to have wanted. You did say that without seeing logs you weren't sure on the P2478 code, but this idea that you had hounded me for something I did not provide is false.

When I first emailed you about the initial tune you sold me in regards to it feeling identical to stock, your response was to have me unplug the exhaust flap and leave it unplugged. After that made no change (odd also that it didn't set a code...) you got pissed and refunded my money. As you state a few weeks later you offered a free dsg tune as I had already purchased a Malone tune.

I have no beef with you, Charlie. It wasn't until after I started experiencing problems that you told me, and I'm paraphrasing "That's the egt limiter kicking in and that's what tells you to back off." when was concerned about the intermittent power on the freeway (felt like someone was turning the lights on and off as the limiter kicked on and off.) I have no idea if your tune is safe or not. What I do know is that with the last file you sent I was setting codes on a weekly basis (often just merging onto a freeway) and when I got suspicious and hooked up a data logger while driving to see the actual EGTs it was hitting I about crapped my pants. The last you contacted me in regards to this was over 6 months ago.

If any of the above is normal business practice for a tuning company and I'm out of line, I'll most certainly apologize. I haven't had any of these issues with a competitor's tune and my driving antics haven't changed.
 

KERMA

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 23, 2001
Location
here
TDI
99 beetle and 04 jetta
12/15/2015 e-mail = heads up.

For someone who does not have a beef, it sure seems like you are trying to behave as if you do. Not sure what I did to deserve that sort of treatment, other than to take you into my confidence and let you try out stuff that no one else gets. I waited to long to send an e-mail? Sorry it's really busy around here, not the hottest fire right now, but how about "hey man haven't heard from you in a while, any progress on what we talked about"

Eric, I chose you for some development testing partly because I believed you when you said you were involved with R&D in your professional life and I thought you said you understood all that entailed. Or maybe I misunderstood, and I just heard what I wanted to hear. I do that sometimes. I kind of liked your critical (in retrospect perhaps overly so?) posts on the forums and thought maybe it would be useful to bounce stuff off you.

And you said you "would be honored".

So what happens? I share stuff that would not normally be shared, especially with a customer (and you are NOT a customer, let me make that clear), let you try stuff that I'm working on, so I can get your opinion, tell you stuff IN CONFIDENCE (or at least what I expect would be confidence) and trusted you without letting you earn that trust first. Much to my regret I have to admit, it's not the first time I've trusted someone who did not earn it and in the end showed that they didn't deserve that trust.

So let me say one more time for the record so everyone is clear.

Shife does NOT have a production tune and his experiences do NOT represent what customers will get today. ALL of his concerns have been addressed and solved with the current production tunes. WIth more power than ever!
 
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turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Not trying to derail the conversation here, but does anybody know how effective the EA288 air to water intercooler is at reducing IAT relative to the previous EA189 fmic?
 

vplukas101

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Location
darien IL
TDI
2015 sportwagen
So much **** talking going on....

That being said I have 30K on the tune right now 0 issues. As Charlie said earlier having a performance tune on a diesel you will have to let off the throttle every now and then because the EGT's get high. That being said its the nature of the beast. If you want a highway racer go buy a new mustang GT instead of a economy car.
 

Shife

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Michigan
TDI
2015 GSW SE DSG White/Beige
12/15/2015 e-mail = heads up.


Shife does NOT have a production tune and his experiences do NOT represent what customers will get today.

Odd that you never mentioned that to me. I also do not have any email from you on 12/15/2015. You didn't send the Qloader to me until 12/17/2015. You led me to believe that these were tunes you were working on for production and that you wanted to make sure the bugs were worked out. When I found bugs, like cyl pressure or high egt codes, you repeatedly dismissed them or blamed me. At no point did you discuss with me that these tunes were so far from ready that I'd be routinely throwing codes or risking any damage.

When I began to question you about the suspicious MPG readings that were completely inaccurate, though heavily advertised by yourself, communication really dropped off didn't it? If the tunes you were giving me are some anomaly and not representative of your paying customers, you might want to search back and figure out when you had a conversation with me that would have informed me that I was going to be your guinea pig for throwing darts at the wall, because I sure can't find that conversation.

I do work in an R&D production environment. When something isn't right, we find out why and correct it. We don't make excuses and we don't dismiss data that points to an issue by immediately blaming the operator. It's literally been nearly a year since I wrote you a lengthy email detailing the onset of the EGT codes and the huge error in the MPG readout. If you at all cared about addressing this, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

You might just want to let this go, Charlie. The trust is gone. You weren't able to give me a reason for the suspicious MPG readings a year ago and I doubt I'll ever know. What I do know is that another tune in the same car produces the same error as stock. Your tune inflates the number by approximately 10%. Add on to that the fact that you appear to be pushing the stock EA288 too far without supporting modifications in an attempt to 'beat the other guy', and I'm washing my hands of this experiment.
 
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kermaGSW

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2016
Location
avon
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen
Thanks, vplukas101 that is the overwhelming conclusion from our customers on the PRODUCTION run tunes for 2015.

I have not had a customer complaint about Kerma on 2015 PRODUCTION run tunes. I field most of the customer service calls and emails. In fact, it is the opposite. We have customer reviews on the product page to prove it. Anyone is welcome to come test the tune out in the mountains of colorado we have B7, Mk6, and Mk7 vehicles available to test. We have a fantastic benefit of testing the cars at a high altitude environment.
 

KERMA

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 23, 2001
Location
here
TDI
99 beetle and 04 jetta
Shife

Just curious... as I'm sure others are... what sort of EGT are you seeing with the Malone tune under the same conditions that you hate mine so much? You already broadcast to the world what they are with the kerma tune. How about sharing what you think are acceptable EGT that you see with your preferred tune? That would only be fair.

As a point of reference, I reviewed some stock logs and I was able to see up to about 790C between 3500 and 4000 rpm at the top of 3rd gear uphill in August - with the car 100% stock with a bone stock factory tune. So the EA288 will push 800C when it's stock. Or like 1500F.

And FWIW, also as a point of reference, the stock EGT limiters start about 842C. (1550 F)
 

Shife

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Michigan
TDI
2015 GSW SE DSG White/Beige
Shife

Just curious... as I'm sure others are... what sort of EGT are you seeing with the Malone tune under the same conditions that you hate mine so much? You already broadcast to the world what they are with the kerma tune. How about sharing what you think are acceptable EGT that you see with your preferred tune? That would only be fair.

As a point of reference, I reviewed some stock logs and I was able to see up to about 790C between 3500 and 4000 rpm at the top of 3rd gear uphill in August - with the car 100% stock with a bone stock factory tune. So the EA288 will push 800C when it's stock. Or like 1500F.

And FWIW, also as a point of reference, the stock EGT limiters start about 842C. (1550 F)
I haven't monitored it in a while, but low to mid 1600s are as high as I was able to observe with the Malone tune. The car has to be pushed to get those figures. I was setting the EGT limit code on your last tune at 80% throttle and 3200 RPM at times (reference my 6/6/16 email.) I don't drive any differently. I still occasionally punch it on my 5am commute.

I don't hate your tune or you, Charlie. I just don't have time to be your pin cushion. You offered to have me try out a tune in exchange for a DSG tune for my time, something you weren't able to make good on at the time and still wouldn't be able to follow through with. I think we're up to what, 7 files of yours I've tried? How many tunes did you think you were going to bounce off of me? What was your goal apart from using my car to throw darts at the wall? When you didn't answer my questions about issues I was seeing, I began taking the time to look closer at the issues themselves. It's not my responsibility to chase you around to get answers from you. Use it as a learning experience: If you're using a guy as a free test platform, be sure your communication is 100%. Don't tell the guy he's using a 100% safe tune and then refuse to address faults when they occur.

I'm left with an unpleasant experience and some real suspicions that factory hardware was being pushed too far and data was being manipulated to appear more efficient than it was. You had an opportunity to address that and failed. It's time to just let it go.
 

Sad Panda

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 15, 2015
Location
Pingree Grove IL
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen SE TDI
LOL^^ good retort . I just bought a Kerma tune about an hour ago for my 2015 Sportwagen and just now found this thread to read up on others thoughts of it. The explanation here makes me even more comfortable with my purchase knowing I can monitor real unaltered data on EGT if I run into any problems. Only thing I am worried about now is how the tune is going to work with my untuned DSG that I am assuming is limited to 258 torque?. Either way, lots of great info in here and a good read. My Q Pro can't come in the mail soon enough, can't wait.
 
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sportwagen3

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2017
Location
MD
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI SE
LOL^^ good retort . I just bought a Kerma tune about an hour ago for my 2015 Sportwagen and just now found this thread to read up on others thoughts of it. The explanation here makes me even more comfortable with my purchase knowing I can monitor real unaltered data on EGT if I run into any problems. Only thing I am worried about now is how the tune is going to work with my untuned DSG that I am assuming is limited to 258 torque?. Either way, lots of great info in here and a good read. My Q Pro can't come in the mail soon enough, can't wait.
How's the tune treating you?
 

dubStrom

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Location
Kansas City Missouri
TDI
2003 A4 Jetta (sold), 2010 JSW (sold), 2013 Passat 6MT traded for 2014 JSW with 6MT-TOTALED in November 2016, 2003 ALH 5MT conversion (sold), wheezing 2015 GSW/DSG and a new 2021 Tacoma Access Cab 4x4 p'up
I agree; the only accurate way to measure fuel economy is to divide miles by gallons used. I also am curious how you can simultaneously get more horsepower AND better fuel economy.
I think that the real reason that you can get more power and better fuel economy at the same time is because EPA compliance means retarding fuel injection timing to reduce NOx. That is well known to simultaneously reduces the efficiency of the engine-reducing FE.

If the tune advances the injection timing, then you will indeed get better fuel economy, AND more torque/power.

Call it alchemy if you want to, and don't expect any tuner to admit to less wonderful emissions numbers. Hey, it's a TUNE! And frankly, when you get 40mpg or better, the thing has a pretty light carbon footprint compared to an SUV or F150. I'll take it!
 
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740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
sneak peek 2015/2016 Golf or Golf Sportwagen PolarFIS.

This is the biggest gem of this thread, where's the release of Polar FIS for the Mk7? So want this for the Alltrack.
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
This is the biggest gem of this thread, where's the release of Polar FIS for the Mk7? So want this for the Alltrack.
Agreed! I actually bought one in October because they were "a few weeks away from a release" and it's just been sitting since then. Would love to test a beta version of the software just to have it installed.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 

Pamtri

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2017
Location
San Diego
TDI
None, yet.
I am also curious about the torque limiting in the DSG. If it limits torque to 258 but the tune raises the torque above that, is a DSG tune included to take advantage of the extra power? Or would I have to purchase that on top of the tune? If the latter, what's the point of getting the tune without the DSG modification?
 

Darth_Furious

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
TDI
2015 GSW, DSG
I am also curious about the torque limiting in the DSG. If it limits torque to 258 but the tune raises the torque above that, is a DSG tune included to take advantage of the extra power? Or would I have to purchase that on top of the tune? If the latter, what's the point of getting the tune without the DSG modification?
I got the kerma tune but didn't get a dsg tune. These numbers are limits / max numbers and if you think you will reach the limit, you should probably get the dsg tune. I press about 50-70% throttle 99% of the time. I rarely floor it and I am getting about 40-45mpg/tank hand calculations. My 2010 jsw was getting 36-40 so its a nice bump with the kerma tune. I think I was getting about 38-41 per tank before the tune post fix so I gained about 3mpg (about what the documentation states).

If you drive with mpgs in mind, you will probably not produce the dsg 258lb limit and its a non issue. If you do like to race, get the dsg tune or a gti.I never hit the dsg limit but it is so much more enjoyable at 50% throttle with the tune than without. It feels like a different engine
 

St.Hubbins

Veteran Member
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Mar 16, 2010
Location
Nashville
TDI
'10 Golf, DSG / '11 A3, DSG (both went buyback) - '15 GSW SE
you have the stage 1, Darth? i'm considering Kerma and Malone, probably slightly more for the fun factor than mpg's. i don't drive like a punk, but do like to torque free of traffic sometimes, and get off the line.
Flashzilla is attractive for the convenience factor, for sure.
 

Darth_Furious

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
TDI
2015 GSW, DSG
you have the stage 1, Darth? i'm considering Kerma and Malone, probably slightly more for the fun factor than mpg's. i don't drive like a punk, but do like to torque free of traffic sometimes, and get off the line.
Flashzilla is attractive for the convenience factor, for sure.
The rep I called said Kerma only offers 1 tune and is supposed to be the most power you can get while keeping the dpf, turbo, and everything else stock. It runs a lot better and I like it.

My only reference is REVO STAGE 1 on my 2010 jsw. I would say the 2015 gsw kerma tune is faster and gets better mpg than 2010 jsw wih REVO. I don't know if it is the tune, platform, or both. I wonder what REVO on a 2015 gsw would be like. The difference is not that big but enough to notice.

That said, I don't believe you would go wrong with either Malone or Kerma. I bet they will both make your car much better. Which is the "better" tune? There are a lot of people who argue one way or the other. I don't know anyone who has a 1:1 comparison using similar cars to come to a conclusion. I would recommend getting it done, regardless of who you buy from
 

Pamtri

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2017
Location
San Diego
TDI
None, yet.
I got the kerma tune but didn't get a dsg tune. These numbers are limits / max numbers and if you think you will reach the limit, you should probably get the dsg tune. I press about 50-70% throttle 99% of the time. I rarely floor it and I am getting about 40-45mpg/tank hand calculations. My 2010 jsw was getting 36-40 so its a nice bump with the kerma tune. I think I was getting about 38-41 per tank before the tune post fix so I gained about 3mpg (about what the documentation states).
If you drive with mpgs in mind, you will probably not produce the dsg 258lb limit and its a non issue. If you do like to race, get the dsg tune or a gti.I never hit the dsg limit but it is so much more enjoyable at 50% throttle with the tune than without. It feels like a different engine
I would say I floor it enough to the point that I believe I would hits the limits imposed on the car due to the DSG. I am not looking to race the car per say, however I do like to see what its made of from time to time. With a tune alone, and then with the tune + DSG tune, how similar does it feel to a GTI? I am trying to get an idea of what this car can do before I pull the trigger and buy a GTI or TDI. I love the fact that the TDI can get great mileage if I want it to, but also can haul ass if need be.
 

Darth_Furious

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
TDI
2015 GSW, DSG
I would say I floor it enough to the point that I believe I would hits the limits imposed on the car due to the DSG. I am not looking to race the car per say, however I do like to see what its made of from time to time. With a tune alone, and then with the tune + DSG tune, how similar does it feel to a GTI? I am trying to get an idea of what this car can do before I pull the trigger and buy a GTI or TDI. I love the fact that the TDI can get great mileage if I want it to, but also can haul ass if need be.
It sounds like you may be happier with a GTI. Everyone who owns a TDI will tell you that it is not a fast car (with or without a tune). It feels faster than it really is because of the torque curve. There are times I "race" another car that wants to cut me off and I often lose if it is a fast car like a GTI.

If you look at 0-60 times (I know 0-60 isn't a full picture), you can see TDIs are pretty slow compared to a GTI: http://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/volkswagen-0-60-mph-times/

2015 GSW TDI = 8.4 sec
2013 Golf GTD = 7.0 sec (a 2015 GSW TDI w/tune will be a little slower than a GTD)
2015 GTI = 5.7
2015 Golf R = 4.5 sec

The GTI gets OK fuel mileage but great performance (especially with a tune and some work)
The TDI gets OK performance but great mileage (even with a tune it's not that fast)

Another way to look at it is...
A Prius is a car that gets 40-50 MPG and feels like a car that gets 40-50 MPG
A TDI is a car that gets 40-45 MPG but feels like a car that gets 30 MPG
A GTI is a car that gets 25-30 MPG and feels like a car that gets 20-25 MPG

The only way you will know what you want is to do a test drive so you should probably do that soon if possible instead of reading what others say online.
 

Pamtri

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2017
Location
San Diego
TDI
None, yet.
It sounds like you may be happier with a GTI. Everyone who owns a TDI will tell you that it is not a fast car (with or without a tune). It feels faster than it really is because of the torque curve. There are times I "race" another car that wants to cut me off and I often lose if it is a fast car like a GTI.
If you look at 0-60 times (I know 0-60 isn't a full picture), you can see TDIs are pretty slow compared to a GTI: http://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/volkswagen-0-60-mph-times/
2015 GSW TDI = 8.4 sec
2013 Golf GTD = 7.0 sec (a 2015 GSW TDI w/tune will be a little slower than a GTD)
2015 GTI = 5.7
2015 Golf R = 4.5 sec
The GTI gets OK fuel mileage but great performance (especially with a tune and some work)
The TDI gets OK performance but great mileage (even with a tune it's not that fast)
Another way to look at it is...
A Prius is a car that gets 40-50 MPG and feels like a car that gets 40-50 MPG
A TDI is a car that gets 40-45 MPG but feels like a car that gets 30 MPG
A GTI is a car that gets 25-30 MPG and feels like a car that gets 20-25 MPG
The only way you will know what you want is to do a test drive so you should probably do that soon if possible instead of reading what others say online.
I agree completely, and I test drove both back to back twice. It is a very difficult decision as I am not after a speedy race car (I am a college student), however I do like a car that can inspire joy getting on the onramp or going through the hills. The stock TDI was torquey but certainly didn't pull very long. It felt as though it had a small usable power area, but I have heard a tune fixes this. On the other hand I like the aesthetic of the GTI more (leather seats, black headliner, black accents everywhere instead of silver). The handling also feels much nicer in the GTI compared to the heavy feel of the TDI.

I have been under the impression that I can manage 28ish mpg in the GTI if i just drive like a normal person, but if this is not the case I might need to consider a tuned TDI to satisfy my needs... I am currently in a game of ball with the dealership. I am looking at a 2015 TDI SE with 23k miles on it for $17,800 before tax and stuff. On the other hand, the GTI I am looking at is an SE with 35k miles, leather seats, and its going for $21,500. I am hoping to get the GTI for $22k out the door (there was some problems at the dealer, an email to the general manager should sort it out and possibly help). But I don't know if the added price and mileage of the GTI is really worth it for my situation. For what its worth, I haven't been able to make this decision for 2 months now :D
 
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