Communications w/VW Re Oil

This should probably be in fuels & lubes, but I thought a broader audience might enjoy it:

Dear Dante,

Thank you for contacting Volkswagen. Your request for literature to our
corporate office in Germany has been forwarded to us at the North American
Headquarters. Though we are the same company, some of the models sold in
Europe are not available in North America. As such, Germany is unable to
fulfill requests to North America and Volkswagen of America is only able to
send you information regarding the models currently available in our U.S.
and Canadian markets.

We've reviewed your requests and have identified those products which we
market in the U.S. and Canada and are preparing this information for you.
This package should reach you within 7 to 10 business days. Of course,
availability and pricing may vary from region to region and we encourage you
to remain in contact with your local Volkswagen dealer for updates in your
area.

If we may be of further assistance, in the interim feel free to respond to
us at vw.com or you may contact 1-800-DRIVE-VW to speak with a
representative. Either way, we'll do what we can to answer any questions
you may have about Volkswagen.

We appreciate your enthusiasm for our brand and look forward to talking with
you soon...On the road of life there are passengers and there are drivers.

Kelly
Volktalk


-----Original Message-----
From: VW Service Center [mailto:vw@dialogservice.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 2:48 AM
To: 'USA'
Subject: 14B Dante Driver


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: webserver@www.compusource.de [SMTP:webserver@www.compusource.de]
Gesendet am: Montag, 13. November 2000 18:08
An: vw@dialogservice.com
Betreff: vw-online.de/Messages to the Volkswagen AG

Datum : 13.11.2000 15:59:02

Nachrichten aus dem Internet:
vw-online.de/Messages to the Volkswagen AG

Absender:

Anrede : Mr
Titel :
Nachname : Driver
Vorname : Dante
Strasse :
PLZ :
Ort : Seattle
Bundesstaat : WA
Land : USA
Anderes Land:
Telefon :
Email :

schreibt folgende Nachricht:

Betreff : Motor Oil for TDI

Mitteilungstext:
Last time I checked the Castrol SynTec Volkswagen of America provides with
the "No Charge" Scheduled Maintenance did not the requirements (VW 505 00,
ACEA B3 or B4, and/or API Service CF4 or CG4) set forth on page 38 of
booklet 3.2 of my owner's literature for my 2000 Golf GLS 1.9 litre TDI.

Why does Volkswagen of America use motor oil that does not meet the
requirements set forth in the owners literature published by volkswagen?

Password protecting their tech site suggests that rather than drivers, VW is looking for people to take for a ride

...Bears out the content of the thread I started on VWoA Customer Relations' setup!
Teutonic bureaucracy, coupled with VWoA's utter cluelessness.

A simple, reasonable, logical question you've posed to them.........

You just go round in ever-decreasing circles until you finally disappear up your own jaxi!

Actually Dante - looking at Skypup's latest oil analysis of the 5W-40 castrol Syntec - that stuff should more than easily pass even the CH-4 API rating. Seriously.

unless you have a heavily modified and HP boosted TDI the Syntec is perfectly adequate regardless of the API level or your personal vendeta.

castrol is still a four letter word in my book but that is mostly cause the company is ripping people off like a snake oil sales man.

Heck they even cheapened their formula by reducing the amount of Moly DiSulfide in there!!!!

I will gladly defer to your judgement on lubrication questions GeWilli.

I have neither a heavily modified and HP boosted TDI nor a personal vendeta--I just really like my car and want to take good care of it. I'm using Delvac 1 for the following reasons:

1. Based on the best information I have, Castrol Syntec does not meet the requirements in my owners manual and VW TSBs. I have asked everyone from my VW dealership on up to prove me wrong, but they either can't or don't care enought to do so.

2. Delvac 1 is one of the oils behind which there seems to be some consensus here, and

3. Delvac 1 is conveniently available to me available at Snider Petroleum in Seattle

I respect your knowledge and believe you when you say the "5W-40 castrol Syntec . . . should more than easily pass even the CH-4 API rating." If VW would just take the time to *show me* that the "free" Castrol Syntec the dealers use meets their own requirements, I would use it and spend the Delvac 1 money on something else.

I am not saying that you don't need to use Delvac -1

It is one of the Best oils in the World for teh TDI.

No questions about that.

Hey - I don't want someone who has chosen to use something else better than Syntec 5W-40 (very different than the 5W-30) to go back to it. Rather to re-assure people that this Syntec is probably THE only option open to the dealers that is acceptable for the TDI.

The other couple acceptable oils probably will never see a VW dealership except in very very rare circumstances or when a customer brings it in.

The TSB specifically states that you should use the Syntec (second one - the one I don't have) 5W-40 in all TDI 1996 and newer. Mobil 1 is not an equivalent choice - it doesnot have the same additive package or soot suspension ability.

DanteDriver, your inquiry is certainly going to have these idiots chasing their tails.

I cannot wait to see the formal repsonse from VWoA.

------------------
96 TDI Wagon, ABS, emerald green
00 Jetta TDI GLS, silver arrow, CWP, LUX1, etc, etc.

I have two bottles of the Castrol 5W40 from my recent dealer oil change for which the label states it meets VW 505 and 502 but only API CF. 98 Jetta TDI with 74K.

To get API certification for an oil made in such small quantities for a specific applications for a specific auto maker is not finacially doable generally.

the VW 505 and 502 are more important in this case.

However withthe extra profit castrol is turning by using a cheaper base stock you would think they might get certification.

I think the API reccomendations are for those who use something other than what VWoA is saying to use. Which regardless of what the dealer says is really only the Syntec. So if you are going to use something different follow the api full synthetic 5W-40 cg-4 guidelines

my dealer uses Quaker State synthetic blend.
the service tech could not find the API rating, but I looked at a QS syn bottle in a parts store. The literature on the back of the bottle said that it met CF standards.

In my opinion, good enough for the the first few oil changes at the dealer's expense (5k, 10k & 20K) Changing it myself at 15K and 25K with same QS syn. THEN, at 30K i switch to Delvac changed at 10K intervals ONLY by yours truly.

------------------
2001 Jetta GL TDI, 5 spd,
Galactic Blau/Tan,
manual ash trays,
loud radio/cassette deck, see-thru windshield

[This message has been edited by gardentender (edited November 17, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by gardentender (edited November 17, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ecraman:
I have two bottles of the Castrol 5W40 from my recent dealer oil change for which the label states it meets VW 505 and 502 but only API CF. 98 Jetta TDI with 74K.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So my dealer was just too lazy to show me the label? Well, despite what I said above, I'm gonna keep using Delvac 1. Sure, I could save a few bucks by using Syntec, but what the heck . . . the Delvac provides peace of mind. Based on what I have read here and elsewhere and what I've experienced with VW, I'm not inclined to trust Castrol or VW.

???????duh!!!!!! spastic mousing

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gardentender:
my dealer uses Quaker State synthetic blend.
the service tech could not find the API rating, but I looked at a QS syn bottle in a parts store. The literature on the back of the bottle said that it met CF standards.

In my opinion, good enough for the the first few oil changes at the dealer's expense (5k, 10k & 20K) Changing it myself at 15K and 25K with same QS syn. THEN, at 30K i switch to Delvac changed at 10K intervals ONLY by yours truly.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



[This message has been edited by gardentender (edited November 17, 2000).]

Had my first free oil change at 5K after 5 weeks (I drive 1,000 miles a week), 2 weeks ago. Now at 6,800 miles, with the weekend yet to go.

I asked the tech when he was getting into the car to take it back to their "no customers allowed because of insruance reaons" area, did he pump out the oil filter container? He said he pulls the filter first, then by the time he gets the belly pan off and drains the oil, the filter has fully drained.

They used Castrol Synthetic. Stopped by an auto parts store on the way home and saw that VW's Castrol 5w40 synthetic does not have the CH-4 rating.

Went back to the dealer and bought a new filter. Went home and checked the oil, it was black. Opened the oil filler and the upper value train area had a strange smell.

Changed out that Castrol and the dealer's filter. Had already bought 2 cases of Delvac-1. Used a Tupperware container with 2 holes in the lid for rubber hoses hooked up to my hand vacumn pump, and cleaned out all of of the Castrol. Found you can push the rubber hose down into the hole in the oil filter container until it hits something asnd seals itself, pump up to 15 lbs. of vacumn, and then lift the hose up slightly and the thing will suction a lot of (black) oil out. I can now see why TDI oil turns black so quick, what with all of the old oil left down at the bottom of the filter containter

Put in Delvac-1 adn a new filter. Oil stayed clear for almost 1,000 miles. Filler now smells like regular oil.

When I drained the Castrol out, there was a lot of fine filings in the drain pan. I wonder if the dealer used a suction pump to pull the oil out and didn't really drain the
oil pan by pulling the drain plug.

My local Disocount Auto Parts store has repacked Shell Rotella 15W40, regular oil, CH-4 rated for $4.69 a gallon. Sounds like a cheap fluch to me when I have used up my freebie oil flushes from the dealer.


Cheers!



------------------

I was in a local Walmart last night and noticed Dulvac 1 was 36 bucks Canadian for a 4 litre container! Also no other oil there except one met CH-4. That Other one was walmarts own brand semi-synthetic for diesel engines and was 13 bucks for 4 litres. Now when I bring my car to the dealer for the first change they are going to get a real blast if they are using anything but a oil with the same ratings as the manual calls for.

------------------
Jason Ivany
01 Golf GL TDI
84 MKII Toyota Supra

Oh man, ignorance is bliss. If I had never found Fred's I could just take my car in for the "No Charge Scheduled Maintenance" and not worry.

Someone else thought the dealer left the bottom engine bay cover off a TDI. Later the engine bay filled up with snow because the cover was missing. I had to check my car at lunch to make sure the dealer put my cover back on correctly.

Now I too wonder I wonder "if the dealer used a suction pump to pull the oil out and didn't really drain the oil pan by pulling the drain plug." I should have just done it myself. The dealer has every incentive to use every shortcut to keep the cost down.

I'm thinking about changing the oil again and chalking this experience up to tuition at the school of hard knocks. Like sierranet's, my oil was black after the dealer changed it and when I opened the oil filler and the upper value train area had a strange smell. I wonder if there will be "a lot of fine filings" in my drain pan, as well.

(1)
I had a couple of "free" dealer oil changes where they delivered it overfull by 0.5 qt ... Kind of black, too. Guess it's easier to suck out most of it then add the full amount than it is to remove the bottom cover, drain out all, and replace cover. What's the risk to engine longevity when the oil is 0.5 qt overfull?.
(2)
They tell me the Syntec they use is different than the Syntec with the same 5w40 viscosity rating you'll find at the parts store ... they claim it's a special buy from Castrol by VWoA. Anybody have a container from the dealer shop? Does it say CF4 or just CF?
(3)
Somebody should set a trap for these bastards with a tamper-evident seal over the engine cover bolts. If the seal is still in place when the vehicle is delivered, you'll know it. Make sure you have a choice of dealer in your area though. You might need their service more than they need your business. Class action suit is safer than one whining customer.

Dr. Dotgain
2000 Golf GL TDI 20,000 mi since March

(2)
Yes the special Syntec is different than the stuff you get overthe counter.
Very different and quite able to hand the the TDI.

The additive package is almost 2x as robust as teh regular Syntec, which leads me to believe that it could easily pass the CH-4 rating.

Why doesn't it you ask? Well cause Castrol doesn't want to spend the hundreds of thousands of dollars testing and liscensing an oil for one specific oil that is made per instructions of the company. It doesn't make sense that they would.

If you don't use what the factory reccomends (Castrol Syntec 5W-40 ONLY) use a CH-4 Synthetic 5W-40. Bottom line.

enough already

I'm going to drill a hole in my belly plan as some here have done to facilitate oil changes without removing the belly pan.

A good mod at the next NW GTG !!

There is 10 or 9 little screws with a torx head holding the plastic bottom cover.It takes me maybe 1.5 or 2 minutes to undo all of them and slide te cover out.THATS IT.

Why you guys make it sound like this is any different that it really is ?

------------------
John/Y2K Golf GLS TDI auto

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janusz:
There is 10 or 9 little screws with a torx head holding the plastic bottom cover.It takes me maybe 1.5 or 2 minutes to undo all of them and slide te cover out.THATS IT.

Why you guys make it sound like this is any different that it really is ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most of us are used to cars without belly pans. As a result, most of us are not used to removing and replacing 9 or 10 screws to change our oil. I'm not saying it's a big hastle--it's just a hastle that's easily avoidable by drilling an apropriately located and sized hole in the belly pan.

Apparently removing and replacing the screws is inconvenient enough to motivate some forum members and VW dealers to resort to suction devices, even though using the drain plug arguably gets more gunk out of the sump.

If you want to REALLY deal with a belly pan, then a Eurovan is a must. The pan on it is held in place with 6-13mm bolts, is a hefty gauge of sheet metal and probably measures 3ft x4ft x 6in. Try laying on your back on the concrete, holding up the pan (I'd guess it weighs 30 lbs) and simultaneously trying to screw the bolts in with very little side clearance in holes that don't line up very well!!!