TDI Used Oil Lab Analyses Results & Discussions

bobthefarmer

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Location
Indianapolis
TDI
2006.5 Jetta Mk 5 192K miles; 2012 Car of the Year, Passat Tdi SE+Nav in blue nightgown, shod in 18 inch heels
UOA with 19.500 on Oil and 106K total miles

Concerned:
 

bobthefarmer

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Location
Indianapolis
TDI
2006.5 Jetta Mk 5 192K miles; 2012 Car of the Year, Passat Tdi SE+Nav in blue nightgown, shod in 18 inch heels
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bobthefarmer

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Location
Indianapolis
TDI
2006.5 Jetta Mk 5 192K miles; 2012 Car of the Year, Passat Tdi SE+Nav in blue nightgown, shod in 18 inch heels
My latest report after 19,500 K miles is showing 10ppm/1k Miles of AL and FE. Also 1ppm/1K miles for Cr and CU. This is a CRKA and It is due for its first timing belt change? Also has a minor coolant leak.
 

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
My latest report after 19,500 K miles is showing 10ppm/1k Miles of AL and FE. Also 1ppm/1K miles for Cr and CU. This is a CRKA and It is due for its first timing belt change? Also has a minor coolant leak.
The advise from Blackstone Labs to go to 5,000 mile oil change might not necessarily decrease your wear rate of metals. Also their so called averages for this kind of CR TDIs seems to be fairly high. I do not own a CR TDI so folks that own one might chime in.

It might be a good time to consult with a TDI Guru/specialist that you could trust as you are about to do the timing belt.
 

Scooby24

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2020
Location
Olathe, KS
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SEL
20k mile oil change seems to be asking for trouble if you aren't monitoring TBN. I've seen TBN done at 10k miles on almost every 507 oil...so then you're going another almost 10k miles on acidic oil...just eating away at your metals.
 

CleverUserName

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Location
NorCal
TDI
2014 OZ Cruze CTD & 2010 JSW 6MT & 2017 GMC Canyon CCLB ATX 2.8 Duramax
20k mile oil change seems to be asking for trouble if you aren't monitoring TBN. I've seen TBN done at 10k miles on almost every 507 oil...so then you're going another almost 10k miles on acidic oil...just eating away at your metals.
This has been my experience using liqui moly TT 4200 507 oil. TBN was depleted and < 1.0 at 10k mikes with high wear metals. Mechanic recommended I change oil every 7500 and analysis showed TBN was 2.0 at the shorter interval.
 

Paulman

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI (buyback at 109,000miles) 2014 Jetta TDI 59,000miles
Potassium is high... Any Ideas?

Can someone tell me how to post a photo? I just took a pic of the Blackstone Lab report and I don't know how to get it in this space!

Paul
 

Paulman

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI (buyback at 109,000miles) 2014 Jetta TDI 59,000miles
Okay, I see that I "may not" post attachments. So can I get permission from someone to post a photo of my UOA?
Paul
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
In my signature below. You must upload the pic to a host server, either here or something like Imgur. Then post the image link back here in your thread. It should show up inline like you want.
 

NewTdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Location
NorCal
TDI
2003 Bora, Reflex Silver
Okay, I see that I "may not" post attachments. So can I get permission from someone to post a photo of my UOA?
Paul
I would go to www.imgur.com upload the image there and once finished you are going to get different options for types up links you want. Select the appropriate one for message boards and forums, copy it and then past it here.
 

Paulman

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2013 Jetta TDI (buyback at 109,000miles) 2014 Jetta TDI 59,000miles
Okay, my 70,000 mile service was just done and I had the Blackstone lab do the test on 10,000 dealer-serviced Castrol.
It was all normal except the Potassium was 40 and the normal for Potassium is 22.
Also, the fuel percent was high at 3.5. And the flash point was 375.
They commented that maybe my use of Dieselkleen might have lowered the flashpoint.
Blackstone commented: "Potassium is a coolant marker but without high sodium (or poor wear for that matter - metals are in good standing) a leak is just a possibility at this point."
Comments? Could the VW tune cause higher Potassium levels?
Paul
 

CleverUserName

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Location
NorCal
TDI
2014 OZ Cruze CTD & 2010 JSW 6MT & 2017 GMC Canyon CCLB ATX 2.8 Duramax
Solvent based additives will reduce the flashpoint. Winter or All-in-one formulas like stanadyne PF are solvent based. I don’t use Diesel Kleen and unfamiliar with the constituents.

Don’t use these ^^^ unless necessary. If your fuel doesn’t gel or live where temps are mild use a summer formula which typically don’t contain solvents.

The patassium is a mystery and could be from the additive. You only have one data point so it’s difficult to speculate on where it’s coming from.
 

JELLOWSUBMARINE

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Location
yes
TDI
2011 Jetta Sportwagen, 6M, red/tan, navi, pano, 83 5m diesel pickup, 82 p/u trailer,.04 5.5 TDI Passat wagon (gone), 80,81,82 diesel p/u (gone), 80,82 sportruck (gone), 59 passthru bus (long gone), 79&87 westy (gone), 57 baja bug (long gone), 73 914
Yep your correct, CRs do have high FE and Al levels , mine are high but pretty predictable,Al always seems to be half the PPM of FE. Mine are touching 110 FE per 15k(10k miles) and 55 Al. Only thing I'm worried about is the potassium levels in mine which are the same level as Al but again they seem to be predictable.
I just got into the game and learning. I haven't been able to transfer the files to post yet, but will as soon as possible.

I had Blackstone check both my 2017 (20k) Subaru 2.0 & 2011 (70k) CR JSW. The Subaru numbers were VERY low relative to the TDI??? I wondered the same about the TDI levels that seemed way high. I did add half a bottle of moli lube additive @ 3k into it. I realize it was my first oil change (on 7k) since purchase (CPO), so...? The Subi I bought new and changed every 5k w/ recommended synthetic oil (6k recommended).

Why are such high wear levels common to the CR? I always was under the understanding diesels wore soooo much longer. You know 1 million mile trucks. My guess is the emission related deficient oil now used along with modern diesel?
 
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foobert

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2008
Location
San Jose
TDI
'05 Blue Jetta Wagon
This is the first drain trying out Redline 5W40 oil after using Mobil TDT for the last decade. ~19K miles was not intentional, but, life happened and it is what it is now.

It might be time to take a peak at my cam lobes and lifters. The last look was 20K miles ago during timing belt change and all was well. It's still on the factory cam.

Or, maybe 19K miles was just too much? Thoughts?

 
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adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
Crua 2260vklr

First UOA on new turbo and continuing to use Mobil1 TDT 5w-40, still really good numbers with a couple of new metals showing up likely due to the turbo install. Will get another sample at 100k OCI, no point in getting TBN anymore but was curious how it held up.
I imagine my slightly higher iron numbers are purely due to higher revs needed to be in the sweet spot for the larger turbo. This UOA had a TON of datalogging as well, many runs to redline in 3rd & 4th gear up to 125mph.

 
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Vpstang

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
Location
Dfw, texas
TDI
Jetta Sport wagen
Another Blackstone report.
Fun y operation factors like Hard Use. Lol.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Mozambiquer

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Location
Versailles Missouri
TDI
2004 VW Touareg V10 TDI, 2012 Audi Q7 V6 TDI, 1998 VW Jetta TDI. 1982 VW Rabbit pickup, 2001 VW Jetta TDI, 2005 VW Passat wagon TDI X3, 2001 VW golf TDI, 1980 VW rabbit pickup,
My last few on my 05 Passat wagon. It had a blown egr cooler when I got it and so it had coolant in the oil. It wasn't very well taken care of and didn't have the right oil. I did a liqui-moly PD flush and now run top tech 4100 oil in it. I was seeing what others said about the iron ppm. Is mine excessive? I know that having had the coolant in there accelerates wear, and that the iron ppm has dropped, but is it still too much? I'm running the original camshaft, as far as I know. I checked it a couple of months ago, and it was not exhibiting any signs of excessive wear, though I didn't mic it.
 
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Mozambiquer

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Location
Versailles Missouri
TDI
2004 VW Touareg V10 TDI, 2012 Audi Q7 V6 TDI, 1998 VW Jetta TDI. 1982 VW Rabbit pickup, 2001 VW Jetta TDI, 2005 VW Passat wagon TDI X3, 2001 VW golf TDI, 1980 VW rabbit pickup,
What do you think of this analysis? Seems to have pretty high lead and copper content. Also has water. This is a 2004 Passat tdi with just over 200k miles. I'm not sure what oil it is, seems like probably 15w40 by the viscosity?
 

CleverUserName

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Location
NorCal
TDI
2014 OZ Cruze CTD & 2010 JSW 6MT & 2017 GMC Canyon CCLB ATX 2.8 Duramax
Sodium is indicative of coolant as well as potassium. 95 ppm sodium, elevated viscosity and water could indicate coolant migration into the engine oil.

Overall it looks pretty bad, however it’s just one data point. You could tear down the engine and do a rebuild, or just keep driving it and re-sample at a shorter interval 3-5k and see what it says. Could be a sample mix-up at the lab too. Can’t tell exactly with just one sample data point. Monitor the coolant level and see if it drops over the next few months.
 

Mozambiquer

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Location
Versailles Missouri
TDI
2004 VW Touareg V10 TDI, 2012 Audi Q7 V6 TDI, 1998 VW Jetta TDI. 1982 VW Rabbit pickup, 2001 VW Jetta TDI, 2005 VW Passat wagon TDI X3, 2001 VW golf TDI, 1980 VW rabbit pickup,
Sodium is indicative of coolant as well as potassium. 95 ppm sodium, elevated viscosity and water could indicate coolant migration into the engine oil.

Overall it looks pretty bad, however it’s just one data point. You could tear down the engine and do a rebuild, or just keep driving it and re-sample at a shorter interval 3-5k and see what it says. Could be a sample mix-up at the lab too. Can’t tell exactly with just one sample data point. Monitor the coolant level and see if it drops over the next few months.
This one, thankfully, isn't my car. It's one that came into the shop here with a ripped up timing belt. It still has the balance shaft module at 200k miles! 😱
Customer declined further repairs, just timing belt and components. Surprisingly it ran well, even though timing was way off! They didn't want us to pull the head and check it or anything, but a new belt and all fixed that part
 

JELLOWSUBMARINE

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Location
yes
TDI
2011 Jetta Sportwagen, 6M, red/tan, navi, pano, 83 5m diesel pickup, 82 p/u trailer,.04 5.5 TDI Passat wagon (gone), 80,81,82 diesel p/u (gone), 80,82 sportruck (gone), 59 passthru bus (long gone), 79&87 westy (gone), 57 baja bug (long gone), 73 914
O.k. I have 2 oil samples. 10x30 VW 507 2011 JSW 2.0 cjaa 6m
sample 1 - 7k on original purchase oil (CPO) FWTW 69k-76k
sample 2 - 3.5k on dealer 507 + 1/4 can of lubri moly (I screwed up, meant to go 5K)76k-79.5k

Any wisdom on the high iron? fuel pump wear?

 

CleverUserName

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Location
NorCal
TDI
2014 OZ Cruze CTD & 2010 JSW 6MT & 2017 GMC Canyon CCLB ATX 2.8 Duramax
Your name and PO box is visible on one of the reports. Might want to edit that out in MS paint.

These engines shed iron. I had a magnetic drain plug in my CBEA 2009 jetta and it was COVERED in Ferrous metal at each oil change. Gritty chunks it was gnarly. Never seen anything like it in a healthy car that ran great until I sold it back for buyback in 2018. I used LM top tech 4200 religously w/ a can of LM 2009 every 7-8K however now I take a different approach.

I believe the iron is from the regen cycle as it washes the oil off of the cylinder walls. That is my theory anyway. If you see a UOA of a deleted 2.0 TDI the iron wear is very low, like 1/10 of what you see here.

The fuel dilution of 3.5% in your first sample is also a problem. Never saw that in my '09, fuel was always low and viscosity was healthy. Blackstone does not accurately measure FD or soot, one of their major shortcomings. Order Oil Analyzer kits from Amsoil, they have all the basic data points you want to see which are missing from this report.

Get a neodium magnet drain plug. Dimple, Gold Plug or Powerslutracing.com. You need to sequester that iron and hold it to keep it from causing more wear as it circulates.

Use a thicker oil. I suggest 10w30 or even 5w40. This would be a non VW507 oil, CJ-4 or CK-4 with a higher HTHS to prevent the oil film from washing off and excessive wear. In a healthy engine that doesn't burn oil, the additional ash from using CJ-4 doesn't have a significant impact on DPF longevity.
 

ruSSrt

Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Location
Seattle WA
TDI
2001
2005 VW Passat TDi with 200xxx miles on.
Up until 180xxx miles was maintained by Dealer/VW shop that put only VW specified oil. As soon as i got it i changed to Rotella t6.

I not sure if I haven't specified clear enough or they messed up but for some reason they tested it as Gasoline oil. Not sure if that makes difference.

This one was a short oil change. I used some LM 2020 Stop leak to help with some oil leaks. But also that was oil change right after my EGR got removed, thought behind it was to "flush/clean" what ever gunk is there from EGR. My next analysis will be at 5k miles.
 

CleverUserName

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Location
NorCal
TDI
2014 OZ Cruze CTD & 2010 JSW 6MT & 2017 GMC Canyon CCLB ATX 2.8 Duramax
High fuel dilution @ 8%. This car has a bad thermostat which I found by watching coolant temp PIDs with my Maestro equipped pioneer receiver. It was also doing excessive DPF regenerations every 180 miles. I think the excess fuel and regenerations is from the low coolant temps causing the ECU to run in open loop. This car has no stored or active codes. None at all. No other diagnostic work has been done yet.

If anybody has another theory of what is happening here, chime in. The backstory in the car is below:

I got this low mileage Jetta sportwagen in April 2020 when covid-19 was in full swing. It was really cheap, the original owner who was in his ‘80s died in 2018 and it had been sitting for about 1 year. Rodents did some damage to the wiring which was repaired by the dealership.

I bought it with 46k miles for $6800 from the attorney managing the estate. It was about 200 miles away, however I contacted him first and he held it for a few days. It is a 6 speed manual without a sunroof (VW sunroofs can have issues) which is what I was looking for. It was in VG condition with a couple body imperfections. It was a major PITA to get this thing titled in my name as the DMV was shut down.

This is the first UOA, I haven’t driven it much because I could tell it had some issues. It’s down now, getting a bunch of work done including a CR170 Turbo, sport suspension including Eibach coil-overs, new Sachs SRE clutch/timing belt/fluidamper/accessory belt/WP etc... to much to list here.

I added the lightweight wheels and Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 4 tires in 235/45R17. I also had the maestro equipped pioneer avic-w8500-Nex receiver and pioneer backup camera installed


 

CleverUserName

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Location
NorCal
TDI
2014 OZ Cruze CTD & 2010 JSW 6MT & 2017 GMC Canyon CCLB ATX 2.8 Duramax
2006 Jetta TDI 5MT 96K- 5,000 mi OCI after camshaft replacement - Pentosin HP 2 5w40

This is my mom's new car. Her excellent condition, Malone stage II 2003 Jetta was wrecked in LA last month. I'm on short term disability with a broken foot from this accident. We luckily found this 2006 a few weeks later as a replacement.

This car is a low mileage BRM and was very expensive, but it is upgraded and in excellent condition. Given the high cost of used cars these days, I suppose it is worth it. I suspect the owner we bought it from, is or was a member of TDIclub.com. It was advertised on craigslist SF bay area.

Major work done by the previous owner about 5k miles ago:

@Franko6 Hard Chromed Replacement camshaft kit, stock profile w/ modified bearings.
Luk Repset DMF/Clutch kit
Frank06 modified EGR cooler
New top end valve and PD injector seals
Malone stage II tune
Taller 5th gear, 2000 RPM @ 70 mph now. New Gear oil
Full timing belt and accessory belt replacements with all new components.
Intake manifold cleaning
VW RCD330 Receiver

The bearing metals I believe are from the break in on the new Franko6 camshaft kit. Maybe Pentosin HP II or any C3 type 5w40 does not have enough HTHS for a tuned BRM engine. Either that or this car may have some bottom end issues.

Runs nice otherwise. If anyone has another idea reply below

Refilled with RLI Biosyn HD 10w40 CJ-4, HTHS on this is about 4.4 cP.

edited to add: spelled @Franko6 with a zero instead of an “oh” o.

 
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