Duracell AGM 94R 80ah battery, Sams Club, 3yr Repl

y2kbird · Dec 18, 2013

Sams club has a Duracell Branded 94R AGM (absorbed glass mat) battery with a 3yr replacement (not pro-rated) and free installation.

Selling at $158 versus $114 for the lead acid version battery. Both are made by East Penn Mfg.

Bought one before a week-long trip. Returned to double digit temps to the Buffalo airport with 2ft of snow on the car. My radar detector was accidentally left plugged in the whole time. With my past batteries (Walmar Maxx 94R or VW OEM) the car would have cranked slowly or needed a jump. This time it fired right up

PDF Link to Mfr Specifications

Jesse_Boyer · Dec 20, 2013

Is the OEM Varta battery similar in CCA rating? (obviously both are 80ah.) Just curious why you'd go the Duracell route vs an OEM battery. My local VW dealer quoted my $135 for an OEM battery, $118 with my discount.)

fruitcakesa · Dec 21, 2013

I just bought a Napa 94r for $130 with my locals discount.
I got 6 years out of the last Napa bat.

Ski in NC · Dec 21, 2013

Some agm batts need a slightly reduced charge voltage to get long life. On marine units I'm familiar with, the charge system must be adjusted lower if AGM is used. Not sure if cars are similar. The pdf made no mention of this.

flee · Dec 21, 2013

Ski in NC said:
Some agm batts need a slightly reduced charge voltage to get long life. On marine units I'm familiar with, the charge system must be adjusted lower if AGM is used. Not sure if cars are similar. The pdf made no mention of this.

This is true.
You may shorten the life of the AGM battery by using flooded battery charge specs.

Dodoma · Dec 21, 2013

Sam's battery seems the best. It is designed to handle power use of more accessories that those that come with the car. Go for it.

Ski in NC · Dec 21, 2013

This is a good tech link describing optimal charging for AGM. Note especially the chart showing float voltage vs temperature. Float volts is that which you want for long term operation such as a long drive. Rolls is well known in industry for top notch batteries and engineering.

http://support.rollsbattery.com/support/articles/4345-agm-charging

It's not that flooded batteries are immune to poor charging voltage profiles, it's just that they are more tolerant of it. Thicker plates and more electrolyte. You can boil some out and it still lives (sort of), where AGM can be quickly killed.

JSWTDI09 · Dec 21, 2013

Sams must have changed the batteries they sell. A year or 2 ago I bought a replacement battery at Sams (it was marked "Everready") and if failed within a month. Sams load tested it and said it was good, but it would not support sleep mode current + glow plugs + cranking. I ended up buying an OEM battery and the Sams club battery is still sitting on my garage floor waiting until my wife's Honda needs a new battery.

Be careful, many batteries only give CCA ratings, but for TDIs the AH rating is more important.

Have Fun!

Don

P.S. I would not put an AGM battery into a vehicle with a charging system designed for standard Lead/acid batteries.

y2kbird · Dec 21, 2013

Duracell is marketing and recommending to people even in older vehicles, so I'll assume they planned ahead when it comes to lifespan with a stock charging system. My past batteries in my 2 TDIs have been the Walmart Maxx (gold) series and the vw Dealer OEM--and I've never been thrilled with either. Usually when I'm stranded it has been due to the phantom load of the car's computer, and/or the load of my radar detector in the always-on 12v socket. If nothing else, maybe the higher Reserve Capacity of 140 will help out.
[SIZE=+0]
[/SIZE][SIZE=+0]more from duracell's site:
Q: Do Duracell AGM batteries offer increased cycle life compared to [/SIZE][SIZE=+0]standard wet acid batteries?[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]A: Yes. The enhanced durability from the Duracell AGM design provides extra protection against deep discharge and multiple cycle damage. This enables extended life even with repeated charge/discharging cycles. In fact, Duracell AGM batteries have 2x the cycle life of conventional flooded batteries and also recharge faster providing more accessory power longer.

Specs are 80aH, CCA: 800; Cranking Amps: 920; Reserve Capacity: 140; OE Group: 94R;
[/SIZE]

Lolas Dad · Dec 21, 2013

Jesse_Boyer said:
Is the OEM Varta battery similar in CCA rating? (obviously both are 80ah.) Just curious why you'd go the Duracell route vs an OEM battery. My local VW dealer quoted my $135 for an OEM battery, $118 with my discount.)

I can't answer the question for the OP but I can say why AGM is better. They last longer, can take more discharge and recharge cycles, they do not allow corrosion to take place on the battery terminals and they are built better as well as more vibration resistant which is better for a diesel because of the vibrations coming from the engine. When the battery goes in my TDI an AGM battery will take it's place.

Powder Hound · Dec 23, 2013

Jesse_Boyer said:
... Just curious why you'd go the Duracell route vs an OEM battery. My local VW dealer quoted my $135 for an OEM battery, $118 with my discount.)

My local dealer(s) both quoted $165 for an OEM battery, and the Duracell labelled AGM I bought at Sam's has a 92ah capacity displayed on the label. There must be differing batteries for different regions of the country. I believe my 92ah version is region limited availability.

Jesse_Boyer · Dec 23, 2013

PH, I've found the same situation on other parts. My closest dealer charges full list price on quite a few things, but quite a little lower on others.

Would you run the 92ah AGM knowing AGM's apparently take a different charging characteristic than standard lead-acid batteries? Just curious

993er · Dec 23, 2013

Ski in NC said:
Some agm batts need a slightly reduced charge voltage to get long life.

Source: East Penn Technical Manual.

993er · Dec 23, 2013

y2kbird said:
[SIZE=+0]Q: Do Duracell AGM batteries offer increased cycle life compared to [/SIZE][SIZE=+0]standard wet acid batteries?[/SIZE] [SIZE=+0]A: Yes.[/SIZE]

True, but "Cycle Life" isn't important in everyday vehicle use. It is if you are running a trolling motor all day long and taking the battery to a deep discharge repeatedly.

What is ultimately important is the correct charge voltage to the battery for long life.

Ah is only useful if you are operating in the battlefield in silent watch mode or if you are operating a trolling motor.

CCA is a function of a battery's internal resistance which increases over time and due to neglect. In ultra cold weather CCA comes in more handy than any other spec, but then a starter and connections that are up to spec and clean are equally important.

I get more that 15 years out of a basic flooded lead acid battery.

Powder Hound · Dec 24, 2013

Jesse_Boyer said:
PH,...Would you run the 92ah AGM knowing AGM's apparently take a different charging characteristic than standard lead-acid batteries? Just curious

Yes, and I have purchased the one I talked about. So, given the information provided by 993 (THANKS!!!) now I need to find the right diode to use to alter my voltage regulator up into the correct range.

EDIT: The battery I purchased is a group 49 (H8) battery. There is possibly a limited geographic availability. Usually when that comes up, they don't want to sell them where it gets hot in the summer.

Cheers!

PH

993er · Dec 24, 2013

Powder Hound said:
I need to find the right diode to use to alter my voltage regulator up into the correct range.

If you had the Bosch (I am assuming it is a Bosch unit) voltage regulator part number, or VW part number, I could look up if an adjustable voltage regulator is available.

993er · Dec 24, 2013

For those into the technical aspects of batteries, Google East Penn Technical Manual.

It'll give you the facts on VRLA (AGM & GEL) batteries and clear up some other urban legends so often found on forums. Note the pages listing the advantages and disadvantages of each type.

And here is a condensed info sheet on East Penn VRLA batteries.

concours · Feb 16, 2014

Powder Hound said:
My local dealer(s) both quoted $165 for an OEM battery, and the Duracell labelled AGM I bought at Sam's has a 92ah capacity displayed on the label. There must be differing batteries for different regions of the country. I believe my 92ah version is region limited availability.

Didgoo get that AGM at the Konkid Sam's???

wilcharl · Feb 16, 2014

Sams once sold Johnson Control batteries under the Everready name. JC made Everstart, Interstate, Kirkland, Autozoo, Advance batteries.

Sams recently switched suppliers from JC to East Penn (Dekka) batteries.

In speaking with someone at Sams (for whatever their information is worth) , it was over quality issues with JC batteries.

I do know that for a long time JC made an excellent battery but I have had only mediocre luck with them.

I find it funny that Consumer reports (who says a Prius has a lower cost of ownership compared to a TDI) will rate batteries by brand when there are few suppliers in this country (JC, Dekka, and Exide)

I have read good things about Dekka/East Penn AGM batteries. One thing I can say is that Sams is easy to do exchanges and has an awesome gurantee.

Genesis · Feb 17, 2014

I used Dekka batteries in my large boat -- their 8Ds had an excellent service record in my application, being much better than some of the others I had "experience" with.

When you're trying to R&R an 8D the cost of the battery is only one part of the consideration of brand involved -- those bastards are heavy and a pain in the butt to maneuver, so failures are not just a money thing.

wilcharl · Feb 24, 2014

I just made a visit to my local Sam's Club and the adjoining Walmart Walmart still carries the never start batteries which are manufactured by Johnson Controls Sam's Club which tends to carry higher end product carries the Duracell battery which is a East Penn battery

I would go the East Penn route from Sam's Club over the Walmart never start

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

T_D_I_POWER · Aug 31, 2014

Here's mine

Bosch L5 AGM
CCA: 850
RC: 160 min
Ah CAP (20 Hr): 90

T_D_I_POWER · Sep 1, 2014

JSWTDI09 said:
...............

Be careful, many batteries only give CCA ratings, but for TDIs the AH rating is more important.

SAE spec battery has much lower internal resistance vs DIN, hence greater CCA. The higher the CCA the easier to crank Diesel engines - any engines matter of fact - in cold weather. CCA is basically the battery Torque.

No DIN spec battery of the same group cranks out identical or greater CCA vs SAE spec battery. This is due to DIN battery higher internal resistance.

SAE said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAE Home > Publications > Papers

Requirements and Norms of Sli-Batteries in the North European Climate

Document Number: 890015 Date Published: February 1989
Author(s):
M. T. Loponen - Corporate R&D Neste, Finland
A. Nieminen - Corporate R&D Neste, Finland

Abstract:
SLI battery norms effect the performance of a battery in cold starts both directly and indirectly. The indirect influence is for instance due to the prevailing figure of merit, CCA amps (SAE) or 20 h capacity (DIN). The European norms seem to lead to batteries with insufficient cranking power at low temperatures. The SAE norm encourages the manufacturer both directly and indirectly to lower the battery resistance, which results in a higher cranking power and thus in a battery better suited to northern weather conditions.

Schumacher Electric said:
Cold Cranking Amps rates the battery's ability to deliver amperage for 30 seconds at 0 degrees F while maintaining a post voltage of 7.2 volts (1.2V/cell). For example, an 800 CCA battery can deliver 800 amps for 30 seconds at 0 degrees F and still have 7.2 volts, measured across its posts. This is a very important standard for vehicles in cold climates. CCA tells us how well we can expect a battery to crank the engine in cold weather.

Cranking Amps is a less strenuous measurement of the battery's cranking power. The CA rating is the current (in amps) that a battery can deliver for 30 seconds at 32 degrees F while maintaining a minimum voltage of 7.2 volts (1.2V/cell). This is not to be confused with CCA, especially when choosing a battery for use in cold climates.

Reserve Capacity (RC) measures the battery's ability to provide sustained current. This rating is important for batteries installed in vehicles with high key-off battery drains. Reserve Capacity is the time (in minutes) required for a steady 25 amp draw to pull the battery voltage below 10.5 volts at 80 degrees F. RC is an important consideration for vehicles that are frequently driven for short distances in stop-and-go traffic or those with high key-off loads.

Powder Hound · Sep 2, 2014

Good points, TDI power, but I think you miss the point. The CCA measurement will do fine, if you are starting a gasser engine.

But having been there and done that, the high amp-hours available from the OEM high amp-hour battery or my current 92 Ah replacement, are far better than a lightweight high CCA low Ah capacity (SAE rated) battery. Starting a diesel engine in 20 below temps is simply not going to go well with the lightweight unit. It won't make it through the first winter. The discharge required of that battery in very cold temperatures is so great, that simply driving the car on a normal commute will not adequately recharge it. Subsequent deep discharges (the very cold days of winter go for long stretches up here) will irreversibly degrade the ability of the battery to deliver that high CCA number so loudly touted.

This is my real-world experience. If yours differs, then please enjoy the extra pizza and beer that your battery purchase savings have bought. Me, I don't like trying to walk the ice to work when the car won't start, so I'll keep the 92 Ah battery, thank you very much.

Cheers,

PH

993er · Sep 2, 2014

993er said:
In ultra cold weather CCA comes in more handy than any other spec, but then a starter and connections that are up to spec and clean are equally important.

I bolded the actual point that needs to be made.

In fact, let me change "equally important" to "far more important", especially looking at the age of the cars of many members.

T_D_I_POWER · Sep 2, 2014

PH,

Then this statement is wrong? I don't think so

SAE said:
Originally Posted by SAE Home > Publications > Papers

Requirements and Norms of Sli-Batteries in the North European Climate

Document Number: 890015 Date Published: February 1989
Author(s):
M. T. Loponen - Corporate R&D Neste, Finland
A. Nieminen - Corporate R&D Neste, Finland

Abstract:
SLI battery norms effect the performance of a battery in cold starts both directly and indirectly. The indirect influence is for instance due to the prevailing figure of merit, CCA amps (SAE) or 20 h capacity (DIN). The European norms seem to lead to batteries with insufficient cranking power at low temperatures. The SAE norm encourages the manufacturer both directly and indirectly to lower the battery resistance, which results
in a higher cranking power and thus in a battery better suited to northern weather conditions.

DIN Ah batteries are tested at balmy 80° F (27° C) temp.

SAE batteries are tested at both 32° F (0° C) & 0° F (-18° C) temp. Hence, it shows both CA and CCA values

Never had any problems last year starting with SAE battery where temp. dipped down to -30° F (-35° C) @ 5:00 am. Remember it's a lot colder here in Canada than in US.

DPM · Sep 3, 2014

useful description of current (sic) and outdated test standards:

http://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/datasheets/yuasa/Understanding-spec.pdf

ZeroCool · Sep 3, 2014

For heavy electronics etc... I have always found Optima Yellow-Top batteries to be the best.... especially for deep-cycle requirements.

tditom · Sep 3, 2014

DPM said:
useful description of current (sic) and outdated test standards:

http://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/datasheets/yuasa/Understanding-spec.pdf

Thanks for sharing that. This part helps explain why the 25 yr old paper that T_D_I_POWER keeps quoting is irrelevant:

DIN (German Industrial Standard at -18°C)
Again as with SAE the test is carried out at -18°C. The fully
charged battery is discharged to 6V with the rated test current.
The voltage must be at least 9.0V after 30 seconds and the
time to achieve 6V must be at least 150 seconds.
Although subject to battery design an approximation of DIN to
SAE CCA relationship is:-
DIN = (SAE – 40) x 0.66

T_D_I_POWER · Sep 3, 2014

tditom said:
Thanks for sharing that. This part helps explain why the 25 yr old paper that T_D_I_POWER keeps quoting is irrelevant:

LOL

Ohm's law was invented in 1827 that's 187 years ago by the German physicist Georg Simon Ohm and it's still used today in the world.

Newton's laws of motion was invented by Isaac Newton in the 16th century and this law is still used today

Ohm's law, Newton's laws of motion etc...are still taught today in any University/College Engineering Schools in the world

Is not too late to register for Electrical/Electronic Engineering courses. Classes begin 09.08.2014

Duracell **AGM** 94R 80ah battery, Sams Club, 3yr Repl

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Duracell AGM 94R 80ah battery, Sams Club, 3yr Repl