2.0 TDI Engine noise help

kiaora

New member
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Location
France
TDI
2.0 TDI CR 140&150
Hello,

I have just discovered the forum by trying to find the origin of an annoying noise that I have on my TDI. I am really impressed by the technical level and expertise of some of the topics I had the opportunity to read. Thank you guys :)

So, I am looking for some help regarding a knocking noise that I have on a 2.0 TDI CR 102hp (CAAB) installed in my VW T5, mileage around 120 000 km (approx. 75 000 mi) that I am struggling to solve.

The knocking noise is mostly hearable on cold start but still presents when engine is warm even if it is harder to hear it, noise frequency increase with engine rev. In the worst cases (rarefull) the engine may rattle and feel like running on 3 cylinders on idle for 30-60 secs. Apart from this annoyance, the van is working great, smooth running, good mpg...

Here are my different hypothesis for this noise :
- lazy/leaking hydraulic lifter
- worn/leaky injector(s)
- low oil pressure
- worn camshaft or valve roller

So far, what I did :

For hydraulic lifters :
- Early oil/filter change with Mobil1 5W30
- Liquimoly treatment for noisy hydro lifters
> No change

For injectors :
- 2 full tanks with octane booster / injector purge additive
> No change

- VCDS reading for injectors deviation :
When cold and noisy :
+0.1 on cyl 1; -0,7 on cyl 2; -0.1 on cyl 3; +0,6 on cyl 4
When warm and almost quiet :
+0.05 on cyl 1; -0,15 on cyl 2; -0.0 on cyl 3; +0,1 on cyl 4

I haven't measure oil pressure yet but as the noise happens mostly when cold (higher oil pressure) I don't believe it may be an oil pressure issue.

Any help would be highly appreciated :)

Video of the noise (not a severe one) :
https://youtu.be/hThX05Dt1Iw

Sorry for my English, French TDI owner ;)
 
Last edited:

STDOUBT

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Location
Portland, effing Oregon
TDI
dos jettas
Welcome to TDI club!

Sounds to me like you've got yourself a diesel. Your deviation numbers are within spec.
Octane additive is not a thing for a diesel engine. Cetane is what you want.
I don't hear a knock. Maybe a tick. If you're concerned, I'd suspect the cam + lifters firstly.
Why not pop your valve cover and inspect them. Use a flexible plastic like a zip tie to "feel" the lifters (anything not smooth is bad), and closely inspect the apex and side bevels of each cam lobe for wear.
At 75,000 miles, you're not looking at engine/head/injector/valve/seat problems unless that engine was abused (wrong oil, etc.).
Have you scanned for codes (Auto Scan)?
~Your English is better than my French!
 

DivineChaos

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Location
Minnesota
TDI
mk6 jetta sportwagen tdi
sounds like a diesel. all diesels are loud. Compression ignition.any diesel will hammer when its real cold. (trick is to learn normal noises, if youve never had a diesel before, you might think something is wrong) watch some diesel cold start videos. what i do hear a lifter tick when you removed the oil cap. you can remove the valve cover and inspect the rockers and cam. before your next oil change you can add some engine cleaner. (many products) the rythmic clackity clackity is normal diesel sounds. then hammering on startup when real cold is normal also.
as for the higher frequency tick. Sounds like a lifter.
had a olds once that the lifers blead off. it comes and goes. louder on startup because the oil has harder time pressurizing the lifter. i would advise to use a stethoscope to pinpoint the sound.

have you ever noticed how loud a vvti motor is compared to a pushrod one? Ever head an older Mercedes diesel? those things are loud.
 
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kiaora

New member
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Location
France
TDI
2.0 TDI CR 140&150
Welcome to TDI club!

Sounds to me like you've got yourself a diesel. Your deviation numbers are within spec.
Octane additive is not a thing for a diesel engine. Cetane is what you want.
I don't hear a knock. Maybe a tick. If you're concerned, I'd suspect the cam + lifters firstly.
Why not pop your valve cover and inspect them. Use a flexible plastic like a zip tie to "feel" the lifters (anything not smooth is bad), and closely inspect the apex and side bevels of each cam lobe for wear.
At 75,000 miles, you're not looking at engine/head/injector/valve/seat problems unless that engine was abused (wrong oil, etc.).
Have you scanned for codes (Auto Scan)?
~Your English is better than my French!
Thanks for your reply.

Yes I meant cetane booster sorry.

Popping the valve cover is not that of an easy job on this engine, I first have to remove all common rail pipes and injectors. But yes that would be ideal to check both camshafts.

My concern is that the van was previously used in Germany with this stupid Long Life engine oil change interval (45000km) that why I am concerned about this knocking sound.

No error code in VCDS

I have tried to make a new video of the sound : https://youtu.be/TrqEJUMOkvs

This is the background sound and low pitch frequency sound that worry me, the one we can hear more clearly by the end of the video when camera is close to oil filling cap.
 
Last edited:

kiaora

New member
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Location
France
TDI
2.0 TDI CR 140&150
sounds like a diesel. all diesels are loud. Compression ignition.any diesel will hammer when its real cold. (trick is to learn normal noises, if youve never had a diesel before, you might think something is wrong) watch some diesel cold start videos. what i do hear a lifter tick when you removed the oil cap. you can remove the valve cover and inspect the rockers and cam. before your next oil change you can add some engine cleaner. (many products) the rythmic clackity clackity is normal diesel sounds. then hammering on startup when real cold is normal also.
as for the higher frequency tick. Sounds like a lifter.
had a olds once that the lifers blead off. it comes and goes. louder on startup because the oil has harder time pressurizing the lifter. i would advise to use a stethoscope to pinpoint the sound.

have you ever noticed how loud a vvti motor is compared to a pushrod one? Ever head an older Mercedes diesel? those things are loud.
Thanks for your reply.

Yes I do have own quite a few diesel before, totally agree on the "tractor noise" of some old generation Diesel engine.

What raised my attention on this knocking noise is that I also have an other 2.0 TDI at home that sounds completely different and much more healthy to me (150hp, CRBC engine, very close construction but not identical)

I don't have a stethoscope, but with a screwdriver I can hear a more pronounce knocking on injector 2 but valve and injector are so close in the head that the noise can probably travel easily between the two components.

Please have a look at this new video of sound : https://youtu.be/TrqEJUMOkvs
 
Last edited:

axton1964

New member
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Location
UK
TDI
2.0 CR TDI (CAAB)
Hi All,
Sounds like I have exactly the same problem, my next step is inspecting the Cam,s and followers. Update will follow.
 

DivineChaos

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Location
Minnesota
TDI
mk6 jetta sportwagen tdi
Guess you have to discern if it's normal and not to worry or not. Does it only do it when the temps drop? Or on every cold start.
 

axton1964

New member
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Location
UK
TDI
2.0 CR TDI (CAAB)
Does it on every cold start. But yes that’s true, would be nice to take the cam cover off and have a look and see if there’s anything obviously wrong. Unfortunately as mentioned earlier it’s not a straightforward job to remove cam cover on these engines. It’s more of an irritation than anything.
 

MikeT5

New member
Joined
Nov 4, 2021
Location
Ebbw Vale
TDI
T5
Does it on every cold start. But yes that’s true, would be nice to take the cam cover off and have a look and see if there’s anything obviously wrong. Unfortunately as mentioned earlier it’s not a straightforward job to remove cam cover on these engines. It’s more of an irritation than anything.
Hi
I was wondering if you solved you problem and if so could give me some advice as I have same problem and same engine kind regards Mike
Does it on every cold start. But yes that’s true, would be nice to take the cam cover off and have a look and see if there’s anything obviously wrong. Unfortunately as mentioned earlier it’s not a straightforward job to remove cam cover on these engines. It’s more of an irritation than anything.
Hi I was wondering if you solved your problem with the tapping as I have same problem and would like some advice kindest regards Mike
 

axton1964

New member
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Location
UK
TDI
2.0 CR TDI (CAAB)
Hi, no sorry due to other commitments I have not had chance. Also because the noise has not got any louder, in fact it’s been the same since owning the van (4 years) I’m considering just leaving it. Rob.
 

MikeT5

New member
Joined
Nov 4, 2021
Location
Ebbw Vale
TDI
T5
Hi
Mine been like it for 4 years not got any worse but I'm looking to sell and would like to repair as no one would buy as it is
Iv seen a few people write about same thing but no one seem to know
Thanks for replying
Regards Mike
 

kiaora

New member
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Location
France
TDI
2.0 TDI CR 140&150
Hello,

As far as I'm concerned, I didn't try to solve the problem anymore... I put this noise in the category of "normal" noises for this diesel engine. I have heard several vans with the same engine making this noise.
I ruled out all the hypotheses that could be related to the injectors or connecting rod bearings.
I'm convinced that it's the hydraulic lifters that, depending on how the camshafts stop, empty slightly and need to refill when the oil is hot and fluid enough.

Especially since the new VW504/507 oil standard is 0W30 (in Europe anyway), I rarely hear this noise now, I don't pay attention to it anymore, it fades very quickly.
 
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