Oil Change Concern at 650 miles...

Drizzten

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Location
Austin, TX
TDI
Golf GL 5spd, 2002, Candy White
Is it worthwhile to get my oil changed early, meaning, before the 5k first service? When does the benefit of breaking in the engine outweigh the damage of the inherently larger metal particles floating around in the oil? My dad suggested that I get my oil changed at the dealer (at my father's cost) before the 5k change because he thinks the fouler oil isn't worth keeping in the engine after a point.

Comments?

[ September 06, 2001: Message edited by: Drizzten ]
 

car54

theGAME
Joined
Dec 5, 2000
Location
Woodbridge VA
TDI
2002 Jetta
Your dad doesnt understand modern engines. theres not that much floating around in your oil. Newer engines are so well built, there is no large metal floating around. the oil from the factory is said to have special additives to assist in the break in, and that oil must remain in there for 5,000 miles. Who designed the car? VW did. who spent money researching what the best oil change intervals? VW did. I trust VW's engineering much more than your dads concerns.

Change the oil at 5k. then at 10k. then 20k. and every 10,000 miles. simple.
 

car54

theGAME
Joined
Dec 5, 2000
Location
Woodbridge VA
TDI
2002 Jetta
after working at the dealer, It seems 1.8T owners who did an early first oil change burned oil for life. This just backs up the theory that the initial oil MUST remain in for 5k to properly break in your engine. Humans are creatures of habit, Its time to learn this isnt the 50's and cars can go 10,000 miles before they need to have their oil changed. You just have to use the right oil. Since your car is a 2002, I'm guessing you have no free services. Use delvac 1 or amsoil series 3000 or Chevron delo 400 synthetic. With these three oils and 10,000 mile changes, your tdi will last forever.

I think most other forum members will tell you the same thing. oil analsis has proven this.
 

Sun Baked GL

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2000
Location
Furnace Valley, AZ
Don't change the oil, and follow VWs advice for break-in (vary the throttle).

The following is from the Cummins TDR site (not quite for the TDI, but will give you an idea):

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>from TDR Article Rings and Break-In

A special problem of our era is the failed break-in. This can be the result of "babying" during break-in -- steady driving at very low speed and load. This can be made worse by high-tech anti-wear additives in modern oils. Such additives form solid metallic soap films on engine friction surfaces. These films have much lower friction than metal on metal, and can withstand several passes at high pressures like 90,000 psi before they are gouged away. The films are sacrificial - they yield at much lower force than does the underlying part - and they re-form as long as there is additive remaining in the oil. They can affect break-in by being able to carry the local load before the piston rings have worn into full contact with the cylinders. The ring, in effect, develops polished areas and then the break-in stops. For this reason, some engines are supplied with special break-in oil already in place, to be changed after a specified period. [Editor's note, Cummins engines are shipped from the factory with an initial fill of Cummins Premium Blue mineral based motor oil.] Such oil contains less anti-wear protection, so that break-in can occur more easily.

If the rings fail to break in completely, the engine will never develop its rated power because of compression leakage, and it may use oil at an excessive rate. This is why manufacturers now advise that engines be broken-in with fairly heavy throttle, alternating with coasting.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Anyway the filter is more than adequate to catch anything that is large enough to harm the engine if it can be picked up by the oil pump,

Plus you risk getting an oil that may prevent proper break-in if you change it too quick.

[ September 06, 2001: Message edited by: Sun Baked GL ]
 

Drizzten

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Location
Austin, TX
TDI
Golf GL 5spd, 2002, Candy White
I was curious because his arguement that a brand new engine will have higher a particulate level during the first set of miles makes sense to me. That's obvious. It's breaking in. His next logical statement is that the higher level of particles is bad for the engine after a certain point (that milage point which of course he didn't state...he's not so bold).

So the oil in a new TDI is different from the Castrol the dealers have? Never thought about that. Thanks for the comments!
 

jetmann

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2001
Location
the abyss
TDI
2k2 Jetta
There was a thread a year or two ago about VW's special break-in oil. I don't remember much, but the number 9700 sticks in my mind for first oil change...and that it was changed downward to 5k for the US market because we'd been conditioned to change our oil on a 3k schedule. The old timers would remember...How 'bout it guys?
 

mikhail

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2000
Location
Williamsburg, Virginia USA
Correct, jetman. That old thread established that EuroTDIs go almost 10,000 miles (I think it was 15,000 km) before the first oil change, but that VWoA marketing weenies, against the advice of VW engineers, pushed for 5,000 miles in view of the erroneous but widely-held American 3,000-mile oil change mantra, just as you say.

Oil changes are much more expensive in Europe, plus some thought is given there to the problem of used oil disposal. It was easy to get Europeans to go with 10,000-mile intervals.

[ September 07, 2001: Message edited by: mikhail ]

[ September 07, 2001: Message edited by: mikhail ]
 
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