So looking forward to diesel and veggie oil

mackconsult

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Location
Vancouver, WA, USA
TDI
95 TDI Passat Wagon
I made the executive decision today to pursue making my own BioDiesel. A lockable shed is the start of this effort.

Screw the oil companies!!!!

95 TDI passat shows up this Wednesday
05 sprinter van gets its Frybrid veggie kit next week

I will spend the coming weeks finalizing the WVO still. Then begin making my BioDiesel still. Just landed my second restaurant for WVO. So with my 275 Gallon tote that stores cleaned WVO I am hoping one more 55 gallon drum and 55 gallon water heater will give me the capability of making BioDiesel in parallel for the wagon and van.

I know gas is cheap right know, but I am taking the opportunity to invest time and money into setting us up so that we hopefully will only have to hit a petrol station about once a year. Maybe only to Pee. :D
 

40X40

Experienced
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Location
Kansas City area, MO
TDI
2013 Passat SEL Premium
You can cancel the frybrid kit if you are gonna make actual Biodiesel. That would finance a lot of Methanol and Lye to make Bio with....


Bill
 

mackconsult

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Location
Vancouver, WA, USA
TDI
95 TDI Passat Wagon
After the $1600 investment on the veggie oil I prefer to have the veggie kit in the sprinter van. This will be my road trip vehicle and I have traded words with many "greasers" across the nation. With the veggie kit in the sprinter van I know can burn grease, bio, and petro diesel.

It's common when being a greaser to get free cleaned oil on road trips. Probably not so common with BioDiesel, but maybe I am wrong ...... :cool:
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
mackconsult said:
It's common when being a greaser to get free cleaned oil on road trips. Probably not so common with BioDiesel, but maybe I am wrong ...... :cool:
I don't know the situation further west than the Mississippi, but east of that, I can find biodiesel more easily.
Then again, that's probably because I'm not looking for WVO....
 

mackconsult

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Location
Vancouver, WA, USA
TDI
95 TDI Passat Wagon
Lug_Nut said:
I don't know the situation further west than the Mississippi, but east of that, I can find biodiesel more easily.
Then again, that's probably because I'm not looking for WVO....
BioDiesel for free ???????? Veggie oil can be found for free among greasers.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
LOL. You can be the Pope for all I care, won't change what WVO does to the insides of a TDI engine. :rolleyes:
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
mackconsult said:
BioDiesel for free ???????? Veggie oil can be found for free among greasers.
$1600 per vehicle buys 30,000 miles of fuel. You can pay $1600 now, (and an additional amount later, too). I'd rather pay $2.50/gallon as needed.
 

mackconsult

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Location
Vancouver, WA, USA
TDI
95 TDI Passat Wagon
BadMonKey said:
His post says WVO in the Sprinter Van not the TDI. Your condescending remarks and stupid fail pictures are completely uncalled for. He even asked you (politely i might add) for specific reasons he would fail and you respond with a stupid Pope analogy.

mackconsult your going to find a lot more support from other forums on WVO and BioD use then here. There are lots of people running 100K miles or more WVO without Huge issues but processing the oil is key.
Thanks for the support. This only reason I posted here is because of my "new to me" 95 TDI wagon that is being shipped across the country as I speak. I am excited about it and the hobby opportunity that lies in front of me for processing oil and biodiesel.

I am already a member on other Bio and Veggie forums, and probably about 90% of the way there in making this happen, I know the effort and risks up against me when pursuing all of this.

It is true that the sprinter van will run Bio primarily, petro every once a while, and veggie on road trips. The TDI will only be running on Bio that I produce. Fortunately my wife and I don't drive very much so we won't consume very much fuel thru the years. My daily driver as an engineer here at Micropump is a XR600R dual sport ...... It would be so cool if future technology brings about diesel outboard marine motors and diesel motorcycles. I think its a dream though. :cool:
 

mackconsult

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Location
Vancouver, WA, USA
TDI
95 TDI Passat Wagon
Lug_Nut said:
$1600 per vehicle buys 30,000 miles of fuel. You can pay $1600 now, (and an additional amount later, too). I'd rather pay $2.50/gallon as needed.
So .....

This whole veggie/biodiesel thing is also a hobby that I will get enjoyment out of.

In the coming years I will easily be driving 20,000 miles a year in the sprinter van doing road trips for vacations and regattas. I am a big time sailboat racer and want to travel with my boat to big regattas in the coming years.

Over the coming years this van will also be used for getting wood in the local mountains, and running down to the coast for day crabbing and fishing.

This is why I validated spending the $$$ on a frybrid kit. My sprinter van will be set up so that it will use Bio made by me, petro from the pump every know and then, and veggie oil that I have stored in a 275 gallon tank.

All of these efforts give me freedom .......
 

kcfoxie

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
'12 6-spd JSW
I really hope the van does not explode. I'm not saying you can't make it work, I've just watched someone with a 2002 Dodge blow a set of injectors, two fuel pumps (tandem and injection), and throw thousands of dollars into his "greaser."

I'm rather happy to buy an actual fuel made from vegetable oil. answer me this; the "fat" of the oil that is cut away in the transesterification process to make biodiesel... where does that end up if you burn the raw oil directly in the engine?

Welcome to the fold?
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
The 1995 in reference is a 1997 1Z transplant into a 1995 body. Nice car. I saw it while the conversion was in process.

And Sip'n,
That's twice now in the past week that you've tried to capitalize an exclamation mark.

Anyway, I've also seen similar, though not quite as severe, piston damage in a 1Z that had run WVO for some time. I don't know how much his kit cost, but I know I made a nearly $1k off him by selling him my spare engine when the now re-formed greaser holed a piston.
 

Sip'n Diesel

Veteran Newbie
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Location
San Joaquin Valley, I have VCDS (KII-USB)
TDI
2003 ALH: 254,000 miles
mackconsult said:
95 TDI passat shows up this Wednesday
Lug_Nut said:
The 1995 in reference is a 1997 1Z transplant into a 1995 body. Nice car. I saw it while the conversion was in process.
ah, thanks for pointing that out. I must be sofa king we todd did for not knowing about that! that's the last time I will try to warn someone that they will be attempting to run an unauthorized fuel in a non-existent engine platform model year:p
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
B100 biodiesel (meeting DIN specification) was allowed in the B4 TDI.
Well, the UK models anyway...
I had a copy of the pertinent page from the UK owner's manual that I used as evidence of maufacturer's consent in order to be allowed to compete with my B100 powered 96 Passat in the 2003 Tour de Sol in a "production", rather than "experimental", category.
The Tour organizers still bumped me out of "production" anyway, probably so as to not upset the Toyota corporate underwriting of the event.

back on topic:
I have no specific concerns that biodiesel can be used, but I don't recommend WVO for either the Sprinter or the conversion Passat.
 

kcfoxie

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
'12 6-spd JSW
Lug_Nut said:
B100 biodiesel (meeting DIN specification) was allowed in the B4 TDI.
Well, the UK models anyway...
I had a copy of the pertinent page from the UK owner's manual that I used as evidence of maufacturer's consent in order to be allowed to compete with my B100 powered 96 Passat in the 2003 Tour de Sol in a "production", rather than "experimental", category.
The Tour organizers still bumped me out of "production" anyway, probably so as to not upset the Toyota corporate underwriting of the event.

back on topic:
I have no specific concerns that biodiesel can be used, but I don't recommend WVO for either the Sprinter or the conversion Passat.
I don't recommend WVO to be used in furnaces, either.
 

mackconsult

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Location
Vancouver, WA, USA
TDI
95 TDI Passat Wagon
Sip'n Diesel said:
quick question for the OP: do you want one filtering/processing hobby? or two?;)

As far as I can tell to do BioDiesel I need to have filtered oil any ways. So I don't just see how I can get away with one hobby.

despite the negativity you have been receiving... we ("we" can be read as "I" or "TDIClub") want to see you succeed, not fail!:)
Thanks. I used to be a commercial fisherman in Alaska so the comments of people on this forum don't hurt me at all. I look forward to reading and learning on how to properly treat my TDI and sprinter.
 

mackconsult

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Location
Vancouver, WA, USA
TDI
95 TDI Passat Wagon
kcfoxie said:
I really hope the van does not explode. I'm not saying you can't make it work, I've just watched someone with a 2002 Dodge blow a set of injectors, two fuel pumps (tandem and injection), and throw thousands of dollars into his "greaser."

I'm rather happy to buy an actual fuel made from vegetable oil. answer me this; the "fat" of the oil that is cut away in the transesterification process to make biodiesel... where does that end up if you burn the raw oil directly in the engine?

Welcome to the fold?
What??????

The sprinter van has a 5 cylinder Mercedes, the same motor used in all the big Mercedes vehicles. Frybrid has done 4 conversions on sprinter vans and 100's on Mercedes vehicles and these are some of the best motors that can consume veggie oil. The rig you saw probably wasn't preheating his oil during the running of the engine. When you do this you create very high "loads" on the pumps and injectors.

This is why I am putting pressure gauges and temperature gauges in my veggie lines so that I can constantly monitor those things. The Frybrid kit is known for being one of the most robust systems out there.

BTW..... It just so happens that the oil I am getting right know is known as some of the best oil around for maintaining low viscocity at low temperatures. Who knows what this guy was using when he blew his engine up .....

Thanks for the welcome .....
 

BadMonKey

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Location
Colorado
TDI
2013 Focus ST
mackconsult;

"As far as I can tell to do BioDiesel I need to have filtered oil any ways. So I don't just see how I can get away with one hobby."

This isn't completely true and puts up a reg flag where you need more research. True WVO needs some level of filtering for BioD processing to get the big gunk out but most of the garbage will settle out with the glycerol. A aggressive filter setup for processing BioD is mostly a waste of time an effort.

For filtering WVO as a fuel I believe the only efficient way in terms of time and garage space is using a dieselcraft centrifuge setup. Sock filters are messy, frustrating, and pretty much do a crappy job. Do not skimp out on the filtering process this is where most people make their mistakes trying to save money/time and end up as a fail picture here.
 

BadMonKey

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Location
Colorado
TDI
2013 Focus ST
mackconsult said:
What??????

The sprinter van has a 5 cylinder Mercedes, the same motor used in all the big Mercedes vehicles. Frybrid has done 4 conversions on sprinter vans and 100's on Mercedes vehicles and these are some of the best motors that can consume veggie oil. The rig you saw probably wasn't preheating his oil during the running of the engine. When you do this you create very high "loads" on the pumps and injectors.

This is why I am putting pressure gauges and temperature gauges in my veggie lines so that I can constantly monitor those things. The Frybrid kit is known for being one of the most robust systems out there.

BTW..... It just so happens that the oil I am getting right know is known as some of the best oil around for maintaining low viscocity at low temperatures. Who knows what this guy was using when he blew his engine up .
What type of oil are getting (rapeseed or soy i hope)

WVO is more viscous then both bioD and diesel no matter what kind your running or what temp your running it at so Kfoxie is correct and the risk of pump failure or injector damage is there no matter what steps you take. More stress equals greater chance of failure, the veggie forums support this.
 

mackconsult

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Location
Vancouver, WA, USA
TDI
95 TDI Passat Wagon
BadMonKey said:
What type of oil are getting (rapeseed or soy i hope)

WVO is more viscous then both bioD and diesel no matter what kind your running or what temp your running it at so Kfoxie is correct and the risk of pump failure or injector damage is there no matter what steps you take. More stress equals greater chance of failure, the veggie forums support this.
http://www.frybrid.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13256
 

mackconsult

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Location
Vancouver, WA, USA
TDI
95 TDI Passat Wagon
BadMonKey said:
mackconsult;

"As far as I can tell to do BioDiesel I need to have filtered oil any ways. So I don't just see how I can get away with one hobby."

This isn't completely true and puts up a reg flag where you need more research. True WVO needs some level of filtering for BioD processing to get the big gunk out but most of the garbage will settle out with the glycerol. A aggressive filter setup for processing BioD is mostly a waste of time an effort.

For filtering WVO as a fuel I believe the only efficient way in terms of time and garage space is using a dieselcraft centrifuge setup. Sock filters are messy, frustrating, and pretty much do a crappy job. Do not skimp out on the filtering process this is where most people make their mistakes trying to save money/time and end up as a fail picture here.
I am planning on investing in a centrifuge filter setup. My sprinter was $22k and not planning on ruining it.
 

UFO

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Location
A mile high
TDI
2001 Beetle
mackconsult said:
What??????

The sprinter van has a 5 cylinder Mercedes, the same motor used in all the big Mercedes vehicles. Frybrid has done 4 conversions on sprinter vans and 100's on Mercedes vehicles and these are some of the best motors that can consume veggie oil. The rig you saw probably wasn't preheating his oil during the running of the engine. When you do this you create very high "loads" on the pumps and injectors.

This is why I am putting pressure gauges and temperature gauges in my veggie lines so that I can constantly monitor those things. The Frybrid kit is known for being one of the most robust systems out there.

BTW..... It just so happens that the oil I am getting right know is known as some of the best oil around for maintaining low viscocity at low temperatures. Who knows what this guy was using when he blew his engine up .....

Thanks for the welcome .....
So Frybrid has converted common rail injection engines with success? Not the Liberty CRD, and the Sprinter has that injection system in common, just like the GM Duramax. I'd be very wary of an WVO conversion on common rail.
 

mackconsult

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Location
Vancouver, WA, USA
TDI
95 TDI Passat Wagon
Yes .... the stars are finally aligning for me; and with a little bit of $$$ and elbow grease I think I can make it happen :rolleyes:

Planning on updating my personal website with photos & descriptions. Once that is all done I will be sure to post the URL to the TDI, Frybrid, Sprinter, and BioDiesel forums.

UFO said:
OK. Looks like you have some top notch oil to use in it too.
 

nicklockard

Torque Dorque
Joined
Aug 15, 2004
Location
Arizona
TDI
SOLD 2010 Touareg Tdi w/factory Tow PCKG
BadMonKey said:
FYI rapeseed = canola

The rest of the world calls it rapeseed but for some reason Americans didn't like that name now our weirdness has spilled over to Canada?
Canola is a trade marked name meaning "CANadian O(I)L-a"

IIRC, it is a slightly different genetic variant that is more frost tolerant than European rapeseed. The name change reflects a desire of Canada to increase exports I think. I don't believe it has politically correct undertones, but I could be wrong.

Moderator: please move to AF forum sub-section.
 

validius

Lacking in ZDDP
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Location
Grand Rapids, Michigan
TDI
1997 GTI TDI
It doesnt matter how many yahoos or 'educated' people endorse WVO, thermodynamics, fluid dynamics and indeed all of physics will never change itself so that VO is a good idea.

Ive said it before and i'l say it again. Talking logic to a VOer is like trying to talk to a irrationally religious old man. Any evidence against his belief is of the devil... that, rock and roll and enjoying sex. The belief defines logic, logic does not define the belief.
 

darkscout

Grammar Scout
Joined
May 28, 2006
Location
Michigan
TDI
2003 Golf
nicklockard said:
Canola is a trade marked name meaning "CANadian O(I)L-a"
Close.

Canola was originally naturally bred from rapeseed in Canada by Keith Downey and Baldur R. Stefansson in the early 1970s, but it has a very different nutritional profile in addition to much less erucic acid. The name "canola" was derived from "Canadian oil, low acid" in 1978
 
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