VNT 17/22 on otherwise stock ALH

VNT 17/22 on otherwise stock ALH question

So, my VNT-15 blew up on my 2001 Golf last weekend and I'm looking to upgrade. I just got the car and as far as I know it is completely stock. I pulled an injector out to make sure, and they are stock. Only thing I'm not certain of is whether the software has been upgraded but I have no reason to think it has.

I've ordered:

-VNT 17/22 w/install kit, retrofit kit, oil line, and EGT tap
-OMI from Kerma to make connecting the intake pipe easier and get better airflow from the filter>turbo
-Race Pipe and EGR cooler delete from Dieselgeek

My question:
Is this good enough to get it on the road safely, or do I need to do anything else?

In the short term (2-3 months) I plan on getting EGT/Boost/Oil pressure gauges and catch can from 42 draft, upgraded intercooler pipes and possibly upgrade the SMIC, so I know these things are ideal, but looking to defer the costs for a short time.

In the next 6-9 months I hope to add injectors and new software.

Sounds like a good plan. That should get you on the road without any reliability issues, sans the CEL for likely EGR codes.

The 17/22 is going to be pretty laggy with stock tune and nozzles. I'd at least add fuel as soon as possible to get driveability back to what you're used to.

Yeah, I know it won't be ideal, but I gotta get it running so I can get the emissions done and get it registered/plated. It's a second vehicle, so I don't need to drive it a ton and will have a lot of extra time in the summer to work on it and get it dialed later. I just want to make sure the turbo will run fine with the stock set up to get on the road.

As IBW said; LAG. When I went from my vnt15 to a 17/22, I had Sprint520s and RC3. It had virtually NO power under 2200 RPM. This is not very good when you're trying to pull out into traffic or driving in slower traffic where you don't want to keep your revs up. pp764s went a long way toward correcting this deficiency in the low end of the tach.
Will drive? Sure. Will you like it? That is up for debate...
I don't recommend doing the egr delete until *after* you get your emissions testing. It will set a dtc for emission related equipment unless it is tuned out.

I've put a few hybrids on stock cars, and they seem fine.. Usually I'll do the turbo and nozzles and the added power from the nozzles offsets the small amount of lag that the turbo has... Most people never notice the lag unless their VNT15 was working perfectly before the failure.. This is rarely the case.. almost every single failed VNT15 I've replaced has had a stuck actuator..

It was running really strong actually, the week that I had the car before the turbo blew. Seemed even peppier than my old Jetta TDi that was only mildly modded, but it'd been over a year since I drove it and a 2dr Golf should be since it's lighter, so I can't say for sure. I'll just have to install the 17/22 and see how it goes. I might get PP764s before doing some of the other intake mods if it seems more suitable. I really don't like the idea of getting too far in without the gauges to keep an eye on EGTs and boost, though.

As far as the Race Pipe and emissions, on my Jetta, I just turned down the EGR using Vag-COM and had no problems passing. It seems like some cars are more likely to throw codes than others. In any case, it's not too hard to clean up the EGR and put it back on w/ a blocking plate and no EGR cooler to pass if necessary.

So what you're saying Jason is a 17/22 on a stock car doesn't run any worse than a stock car with a non-operating turbo. I'd agree with that.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

So what you're saying Jason is a 17/22 on a stock car doesn't run any worse than a stock car with a non-operating turbo. I'd agree with that.

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I didn't say non-operating LOL... Most of the stuck actuators I see are stuck somewhere in the middle of their travel, usually 2/3 of the way to the stop screw.. This causes them to be a little laggy initially.. Usually coming alive around 2100-2200 or so..


It's really simple to get them to boost like a stock turbo on a stock ALH.. Knock the IQ down as low as you can get it without shuddering and it usually does the trick, especially with slightly bigger nozzles (sprints are fine).. With stock nozzles on a 5-speed car I'd shorten the actuator rod a touch and it brings them to life earlier.. Turning the EGR down to minimum (or deleting it) helps with spooling the turbo up as well..

We set up a car here for the machinist that helps us with fabrication - 17/22, everything else stock. Got it chipped by Jeff with a high-psi "3+" tune, 2.5" Exhaust. Its fast, its not as torquey as large-nozzled cars but I wouldn't consider it laggy.

It will be fine, a tad bit laggy but that's about it.

You should be able to adjust the actuator rod to adjust the vanes so the turbo won't be as laggy. It's a good idea to ensure the rod is adjusted to your liking whenever installing a vnt turbo because there's no guarantee it's going to come properly set.

They come properly set for 90% of applications, but a few here and there will need some tweaking to get perfect..

TDIJetta99 said:

They come properly set for 90% of applications, but a few here and there will need some tweaking to get perfect..

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True but the OP is asking about installing the turbo on an otherwise stock ALH, so that would likely fall into the 10% that would need some adjustment to avoid the lag that would likely occur from installing said turbo on said stock car.

most of the time they are fine.. Really.. I've put a few on completely stock cars for a "durability" upgrade since it does spool up a bit faster than the VNT17..

Ed's TDI said:

True but the OP is asking about installing the turbo on an otherwise stock ALH, so that would likely fall into the 10% that would need some adjustment to avoid the lag that would likely occur from installing said turbo on said stock car.

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So he sees boost 500 rpm later... Like it's been said before, it's not worth losing any sleep over.

I would say, mount the turbo, jack up your IQ to the point of shudder and see what you've got. My guess is it won't be that bad.

Ya LOL.. The 15 will make 10psi at 1100rpm.. 1600-1800 for the 17/22 on a stock car.

FlyTDI Guy said:

I would say, mount the turbo, jack up your IQ to the point of shudder and see what you've got. My guess is it won't be that bad.

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This is my plan. Turbo arrived today. Hopefully will have it all running by the end of the week or next weekend. It's been awhile since I've messed with a TDi (haven't had one for a little over a year), but I assume you mean adjusting the IQ via hammer mod and looking at the appropriate measuring block in Vag-COM where smaller number means more fuel if I'm remembering correctly.

Yes, basically richen up your fueling as much as possible in an effort to supply the turbo with as much energy possible and, hopefully, get as strong a spool as possible with the resources available.

I've got this 90% installed, just need to put the intake back on and re-route the vacuum lines without the EGR. I'm a bit confused on the "new-style" turbo support bracket. Does anyone have a picture of how this mounts up? It seems too small to reach anywhere on the block to bolt to. Do I really even need this?

I don't have a picture, but you take the old bracket off and use the new one instead, since the bottom turbo mount is rotated 90 degrees from the earlier turbos. There should be a threaded hole in the block for it to mount to, but it may require a little poking around as it's most likely filled with grease. You can run without it, but I wouldn't for any length of time.

Maybe I mounted it backwards, but it's way too small to get close enough to the block to mate up with any hole there. I'll have to look at it again and see if it's on the wrong side of the mount on the turbo.

Yup. It was on backwards. I was initially looking to bolt it to the frame like the old version. Made a lot more since once I flipped it around the turbo. I got it started today, runs rough, but I don't have the TIP and broke a nipple on the N75, so that makes sense. When I get those in later this week, I'll clear all the codes, turn down the EGR, and tweak the fueling.